HEB Online Store

[Soonerinfiniti]

Beloved Texas grocery store HEB now has an on-line store.

http://www.chron.com/business/retail...es-6627428.php

[baralheia]

HEB is definitely one grocery store I would LOVE to see in the Oklahoma City market.

[bchris02]

HEB is definitely one grocery store I would LOVE to see in the Oklahoma City market.

H-E-B could enter the market and give Wal-Mart a serious run for their money. I think they would be very successful. In addition, most of their stores are larger and much nicer than almost anything currently in the OKC market. However, they aren't even in DFW other than Central Market (which is H-E-B's flagship brand). One thing that could sell them on OKC is the fact they would be filling a niche currently unfilled in this market. DFW has plenty of quality grocers on almost every corner so it might be more difficult for them to get a foothold there than it would here.

[Uptowner]

How can any national grocer take the OKC market very seriously when they can't sell beer or wine? The HEBs in Austin have an entire isle of wine, thousands of bottles. And it essentially defeats the liquor store unless you're drinking spirits. It's cheaper, there's more selection, you can grab snacks or a even a carved turkey dinner for 4.

I think the market will look a lot different if we're able to change the liquor laws next year.

[Jersey Boss]

Red states prohibit grocery store wine sales. That's a little less than 1/3 of the states.




http://www.wineconsumers.org/issues/...rocery-stores/

[bchris02]

Red states prohibit grocery store wine sales. That's a little less than 1/3 of the states.

OK's liquor laws are definitely not the sole reason OKC's grocery store situation is so bad. Wal-Mart saturation and the fact that pretty much all of the national chains that have been here at one point (Baker's, Food Lion, Safeway, Albertson's) faced major financial difficulty and had to pull out is also a big factor. Also contributing is the fact that OKC's primary local chain, Homeland, is poorly run and doesn't seem like they are really interested in expanding or concerned with competing, completely opposite of Reasor's in Tulsa.

What changing the liquor laws would do is give companies that might be considering expanding into OKC, such as H-E-B or Kroger, the confidence to pull the trigger.

[Jersey Boss]

OK's liquor laws are definitely not the sole reason OKC's grocery store situation is so bad. Wal-Mart saturation and the fact that pretty much all of the national chains that have been here at one point (Baker's, Food Lion, Safeway, Albertson's) faced major financial difficulty and had to pull out is also a big factor. Also contributing is the fact that OKC's primary local chain, Homeland, is poorly run and doesn't seem like they are really interested in expanding or concerned with competing, completely opposite of Reasor's in Tulsa.

What changing the liquor laws would do is give companies that might be considering expanding into OKC, such as H-E-B or Kroger, the confidence to pull the trigger.

FOOD LION pulled out when that investigative piece on them was broadcast. The investigation showed employees in a non Oklahoma store doctoring fish and meat that had passed the expiration date. KROGER has publicly said that they would not be expanding anywhere. I just wanted to point out that national chains do in fact locate where wine sales are prohibited. Remember WINCO is on the way.

[baralheia]

That's not 100% true on Kroger - while they may not be planning on expanding into new markets with new stores, they are still purchasing other supermarket chains to expand their reach. They announced on Nov 11 (5 days ago as of this post) that they were going to buy Roundy's, which owns several chains in and around Chicago and Wisconsin - bringing them into new markets in Wisconsin. Kroger Buying Roundy?s In Supermarket Chain Deal To Expand In Midwest - Fortune

I'd be delighted if Kroger bought out Homeland. Just saying.

[bchris02]

That's not 100% true on Kroger - while they may not be planning on expanding into new markets with new stores, they are still purchasing other supermarket chains to expand their reach. They announced on Nov 11 (5 days ago as of this post) that they were going to buy Roundy's, which owns several chains in and around Chicago and Wisconsin - bringing them into new markets in Wisconsin. Kroger Buying Roundy?s In Supermarket Chain Deal To Expand In Midwest - Fortune

I'd be delighted if Kroger bought out Homeland. Just saying.

I agree. A well-run grocery chain buying out Homeland would be a godsend for OKC's grocery market.

[Questor]

This post is going to smart a little bit, but it's the truth. It's the real reason why all the grocery store chains you mentioned have failed.

It's the same reason why Walmart is so popular here and the only big national chain people seem to care about is Costco. It's the reason why Android phones are more popular here than iPhones. The same reason why high-end stores repeatedly pass us over, but then eventually set up a shop where they sell us their slightly messed up or less popular brands with wild success. It's also why outlet malls do so well here, and why every time a major business is thinking about relocating here the best we can do and the only thing we seem to be able to fathom as a decision point for the other company is to offer them tax incentives and money. It's also why most of our local businesses compete on a value-based strategy as opposed to the many others.

The problem is that people here are cheap. Not a little, like really cheap. The only thing that always works here is competing on cost. Anything that is competing on quality alone is almost assuredly doomed. Yes you can find exceptions, but generally there are multiple other hooks like in the example of our grocery stores organic, low cost organic, allergen free, etc.

If you don't believe me go to Wikipedia and research Winco. The very first thing the article mentions is that it's a low cost no frill grocery store, so low cost that they don't even allow credit cards so they can eek out another percent or two in savings.

The crazy thing is it's not about poor people here... You can go to some of the most well-off suburbs in the metro and see that the most popular places often are the ones offering rock bottom prices.

It's also apparent in our homes. Browsing realtor.com is pretty eye opening. The majority of people here really don't care about construction quality, the care about square foot above all else (e.g. Value). It's pretty wild looking at higher end houses and realizing that the furniture surrounding you has been bought at literally some of the cheapest places in the country.

Oklahomans are cheap. That's the problem.

[trousers]

I'm pretty sure Android outsells iPhones in other places other than Oklahoma.
As for the rest of your post...

[adaniel]

It's also apparent in our homes. Browsing realtor.com is pretty eye opening. The majority of people here really don't care about construction quality, the care about square foot above all else (e.g. Value). It's pretty wild looking at higher end houses and realizing that the furniture surrounding you has been bought at literally some of the cheapest places in the country.

Wow, what a rant. I actually do think there is a large downmarket population, but I don't think the spending habits are any different here, adjusted for income and demographics, than anywhere else. Sorry people's frugality offends you. And the line above is especially untrue. I remember going into some really crappy homes in OKC only to see several thousand dollars worth of furniture. I always just assumed they got suckered by a really aggressive Mathis Brothers salesman.

I don't know how all this butthurt started from a thread about a grocery story. Have y'all even been in an HEB? Its okay....nothing special about them. They are on the same level as the newer Crest stores. Maybe you are confusing it with Central Market.

[Thomas Vu]

I'm pretty sure Android outsells iPhones in other places other than Oklahoma.
As for the rest of your post...

Definitely thought the same thing.

[Jersey Boss]

I'm pretty sure Android outsells iPhones in other places other than Oklahoma.
As for the rest of your post...

Exactly. Comparing Android to Apple to make an argument about grocery stores in Oklahoma is weak sauce.

iPhone Vs. Android: Apple's Success Only Goes So Far - InformationWeek

Apple reported sales of about 47.5 million iPhones during its third fiscal quarter. That follows sales of 61.2 million and 74.5 million during its first and second quarters, respectively. The iPhone has been selling like mad since Apple debuted the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 Plus last fall.

To put the numbers into a little perspective, Samsung outdid Apple in its most recent quarter, with shipments of between 71 million and 76 million.

Globally, Android slays the iPhone in terms of volume. IDC predicts Android shipments will top 1.15 billion, giving it 79.4% of the entire smartphone market this year. iPhone shipments are predicted to reach 237 million for 2015, which puts the iPhone at 16.4% of the market. Android is outselling the iPhone nearly five to one.

[bchris02]

I don't know how all this butthurt started from a thread about a grocery story. Have y'all even been in an HEB? Its okay....nothing special about them. They are on the same level as the newer Crest stores. Maybe you are confusing it with Central Market.

The newer Crest stores are nice and on par with a Kroger or H-E-B, but there are only two of them and are not easily accessible from downtown or NW OKC. The only thing on the north side that is on that level is Uptown Grocery in far north Edmond. Of course, there will soon be the new location on N May, but that still isn't convenient from downtown. I think the grocery store situation in OKC is still a valid complaint. Hopefully it won't be in five years but for now it is.

Though OKC's value-conscious culture does contribute to the lack of quality grocery stores here, I don't think its the primary reason. The real reason is that every national mainstream grocery chain that has been in this market has had trouble at the corporate level and has had to pull out for one reason or another. That has allowed Wal-Mart step in and fill that vacuum as other chains have been reluctant to enter Oklahoma due to the liquor laws. Meanwhile, the dominant regional chain Homeland is one of the worst-managed grocery stores anywhere. If Homeland was managed as well as Reasor's in Tulsa, this conversation wouldn't be happening.

[Jersey Boss]

"... other chains have been reluctant to enter Oklahoma due to the liquor laws"

I know that updating liquor/wine laws and the absence of national grocery chains is a burr in your saddle. But as the chart in post #4 shows, a little less than 1/3 of states have similar restrictions. Do you have any information outside of the personal anecdotal type that supports your assertion?

[bchris02]

"... other chains have been reluctant to enter Oklahoma due to the liquor laws"

I know that updating liquor/wine laws and the absence of national grocery chains is a burr in your saddle. But as the chart in post #4 shows, a little less than 1/3 of states have similar restrictions. Do you have any information outside of the personal anecdotal type that supports your assertion?

It makes sense from a business perspective. Why else would they not be in Oklahoma when they have a huge presence in every surrounding state (Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas, and Texas)? They aren't in Tulsa either and the only reason their grocery situation is any better than OKC's is because their regional chain, Reasor's, actually tries to compete.

National mid-tier grocers aren't really expanding into new markets right now anyways unless they are buying out regionals. They are getting crushed on the low end by Wal-Mart and Winco and on the high end by Whole Foods, Sprouts, etc.

Wine/beer accounts for up to 20% of grocery store profits in states that have legal sales so I am sure its a factor. It isn't the ONLY reason, but its a factor.

[Plutonic Panda]

It makes sense from a business perspective. Why else would they not be in Oklahoma when they have a huge presence in every surrounding state (Kansas, Missouri, Arkansas, and Texas)? They aren't in Tulsa either and the only reason their grocery situation is any better than OKC's is because their regional chain, Reasor's, actually tries to compete.

National mid-tier grocers aren't really expanding into new markets right now anyways unless they are buying out regionals. They are getting crushed on the low end by Wal-Mart and Winco and on the high end by Whole Foods, Sprouts, etc.

Wine/beer accounts for up to 20% of grocery store profits in states that have legal sales so I am sure its a factor. It isn't the ONLY reason, but its a factor.

Dude, the Reasor's I've gone to on average aren't much nicer than the Homeland's around the city. They have like one or two really nice ones, but those aren't any better than the new Crest's they built. Tulsa's regional grocer chain is about the same as OKC's. They suck.

[adaniel]

^
Don't know what "they" you are talking about but HEB is only in Central and South Texas along with Mexico. That has nothing to do with liquor laws and everything to do with their distribution network.

Almost every retailer when asked about this has stated the biggest obstacle in OKC's market is the income dilution here, which is being proven less true as time has gone on.

[zookeeper]

I thought there would be something new in this thread, but it's the same arguments from the same people. Why is there such an obsession with grocery stores? Homeland has a few locations that are very, very nice. I still say their Britton & May store is as nice as any grocer that keeps getting named in these grocery threads. Buy4Less has some good locations. Crest. Uptown Market. There's all kinds of options, but like every other retail/service thing, it's "cool" and we must have it (if it's not here). Once it's here, its forgotten about and there's another obsession for whatever that's not here. Never fails.

[Questor]

Android does outsell iPhone at a macro level, just not always and in every market. In any case that wasn't the point of the post.

It doesn't really bother me if folks feel like directing anger at me. I just don't care. If you feel like having a conversation about the thoughts I threw out there though I would welcome that. Tell me in specific terms with well reasoned argument why I am wrong....

[Questor]

Adaniel just a point of order... HEB Corporation owns the HEB brand of stores, and also owns the Central Market brand of stores.

[Questor]

The newer Crest stores are nice and on par with a Kroger or H-E-B, but there are only two of them and are not easily accessible from downtown or NW OKC. The only thing on the north side that is on that level is Uptown Grocery in far north Edmond. Of course, there will soon be the new location on N May, but that still isn't convenient from downtown. I think the grocery store situation in OKC is still a valid complaint. Hopefully it won't be in five years but for now it is.

Though OKC's value-conscious culture does contribute to the lack of quality grocery stores here, I don't think its the primary reason. The real reason is that every national mainstream grocery chain that has been in this market has had trouble at the corporate level and has had to pull out for one reason or another. That has allowed Wal-Mart step in and fill that vacuum as other chains have been reluctant to enter Oklahoma due to the liquor laws. Meanwhile, the dominant regional chain Homeland is one of the worst-managed grocery stores anywhere. If Homeland was managed as well as Reasor's in Tulsa, this conversation wouldn't be happening.

The most recent chain to pull out that I can think of was Albertson's. Didn't they pull out because they just weren't profitable enough? So a private company isn't going to come out and specifically say why that was the case, but at the time there was a lot of speculation about their relatively high prices and the competition from Walmart.

When you look at Sprouts, it is really not at all a high end place. It's a great store, but it's positioned itself middle market and it's known for being sort of a value middle of the road organic place. I mention it only because it has been identified as high end by posters here in this and other threads.

I agree that basic HEB stores and Kroger aren't high end either, but maybe that poster wasn't saying that, maybe they were saying those stores offer a nicer shopping experience and they wished we had them here.

Every post I've seen about Trader Joe's always includes someone talking about how they think they'll be very successful here because they're the value version of Whole Foods. Just some examples I have noticed.

I don't know, it seems pretty cut and dry to me. What am I missing?

I do think the liquor comment is an interesting, and often cited one. I really don't know that this is keeping stores out of our state though. If sales are good enough from everything else, stores will come, even in places with restrictive liquor laws. This has been seen/proven already in other states where grocery demand was strong.

[bchris02]

The most recent chain to pull out that I can think of was Albertson's. Didn't they pull out because they just weren't profitable enough? So a private company isn't going to come out and specifically say why that was the case, but at the time there was a lot of speculation about their relatively high prices and the competition from Walmart.

Albertson's was having trouble nationally and sold off, and the Oklahoma stores were a casualty of that.

When you look at Sprouts, it is really not at all a high end place. It's a great store, but it's positioned itself middle market and it's known for being sort of a value middle of the road organic place. I mention it only because it has been identified as high end by posters here in this and other threads.

I agree, it is a midrange specialty store. It competes right along the same lines as The Fresh Market. I think people refer to it as high end because it is when your standard is Wal-Mart Supercenter or stores like the 18th and Classen Homeland. Remember that these nicer, modern stores are relatively new to OKC and still somewhat of a novelty. Five years ago, there was no Whole Foods, no Sprouts, no Uptown, and no Crest Fresh Market.

I agree that basic HEB stores and Kroger aren't high end either, but maybe that poster wasn't saying that, maybe they were saying those stores offer a nicer shopping experience and they wished we had them here.

Exactly. Oklahoma City has a few stores that compare to that kind of experience. There is Crest on SW 104th and May, the new Norman Crest, the May and Britton Homeland, and Uptown Grocery in Edmond.

Every post I've seen about Trader Joe's always includes someone talking about how they think they'll be very successful here because they're the value version of Whole Foods.

Trader Joe's is wildly successful everywhere and doesn't really compete with Whole Foods. People who consider it a value version don't have much experience shopping there. Its one grocery store that is truly unique.