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  1. #151

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    For a while now, the Oklahoman has had an ad campaign that basically asserts its product is better than others, especially that evil 'social media':

    http://oklahomaunfolded.com/


  2. Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    And of course it's pretty true, considering what passes for "journalism' on Twitter and Facebook. My impression though is that the current ad campaign represents the dying screams of a dinosaur...

  3. #153

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    For a while now, the Oklahoman has had an ad campaign that basically asserts its product is better than others, especially that evil 'social media':

    http://oklahomaunfolded.com/

    If this teacher is a reader, which I doubt, then she must get upset a lot when the editors frequently make light of our bad teacher pay and emergency teaching certificate situation.

  4. #154

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Brianna Bailey has left the Oklahoman for the Tulsa-based non-profit The Frontier.

    Very strange.

  5. #155

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Good for her. Funny how good some of the individual reporters are at the Oklahoman, but how miserably out of touch the editorial board is.

  6. #156

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Quote Originally Posted by stjohn View Post
    Good for her. Funny how good some of the individual reporters are at the Oklahoman, but how miserably out of touch the editorial board is.
    Yep. Ben Felder's work on education has been the best I've seen in the state. Really hope he stays around. Oklahoma education needs good reporters.

  7. #157

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    100%. Felder is exactly the other reporter I had in mind.

  8. #158

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Ben recently announced on social media he would be heading up a 3-person investigative team and that one of their focuses would remain education.

    He has also used social media to openly criticize the Oklahoman's editorial board.

  9. #159

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Ben recently announced on social media he would be heading up a 3-person investigative team and that one of their focuses would remain education.

    He has also used social media to openly criticize the Oklahoman's editorial board.
    Of course you have to wonder how neutral and unbiased his investigations will be when he is pretty open with his liberal views. I do miss the days when investigative reporters just stuck to the facts and not their personal biases

  10. #160

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    Of course you have to wonder how neutral and unbiased his investigations will be when he is pretty open with his liberal views. I do miss the days when investigative reporters just stuck to the facts and not their personal biases
    Like the rest of the Oklahoman reporters??

  11. #161

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Exactly it is a large problem everywhere and has been for some time. I really don’t want my news slanted either way.

  12. #162

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    I've seen too many interviews of young journalists who, when asked why they entered the field, responded, "Because I want to make a difference in the world."

    Like Boulder, I want news straight up, accurate and complete, preferably proofed by an editor before distribution. Just tell me what happened at city hall, the state capitol, in court, and on the police blotter (if its of substance).

  13. #163

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Like the rest of the Oklahoman reporters??
    Lackmeyer is one of the worst offenders. He injects his opinion so much that I feel some of his articles belong on the op/ed page. He should reports the facts and save his opinion for his blog posts.

  14. Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    ^^^^^^^
    As Pete knows I restrain myself from getting involved in this conversation - because I consider both Pete and Steve friends - but it absolutely must be pointed out here that Steve is a business COLUMNIST. He is paid to give opinion, and to have it appear on the business page. This is standard practice at newspapers all over the country. When it is a column, when he writes in first person, etc., it is SUPPOSED to be the opinion of someone who has covered downtown for years, just like when Berry Trammel writes columns appearing in the sports section, based on his own experiences in sports journalism. When Steve is writing a column it is supposed to be labeled "OKC Central," which is the branding of both his column and of his blog.

    When he writes an ARTICLE, it is ostensibly devoid of opinion, and if you pay attention to which is which, you can see the differences between his columns and his news reporting. Whether he always succeeds is of course debatable, but as has been pointed out, opinion has been leaking into journalism in general, which is unfortunate. I do believe that he tries in this regard. I think it is also fair to say that at times The Oklahoman does a poor job of making it clear that his column is an opinion piece. But again, for the record, he is 100% expected to render opinion in his columns. It is the entire point.

  15. #165

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    ^

    Having the same person attempt to be both a columnist and reporter represents bad journalistic practice, especially one that does both virtually every week.

    This comes from an authority on journalism ethics I recently interviewed.

  16. Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    But of course it happens in many, many publications and has for many, many years. And also to some extent it is probably happening more due to the generally struggling daily newspaper business model and all of the staff cuts resulting from this. Having someone on staff who ONLY writes columns on things like sports or business is a luxury these days.

    And with that, I'm bowing out of this discussion. Just wanted to point out that he is in fact a columnist, not only a reporter.

  17. #167

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    But of course it happens in many, many publications and has for many, many years. And also to some extent it is probably happening more due to the generally struggling daily newspaper business model and all of the staff cuts resulting from this.
    I don't think it happens in this way -- virtually every single week without no discernible identification between reporting and opinion -- nearly as often as you are suggesting. In fact, I challenge you to produce another such example.

    The Oklahoman has hired at least 10 new business writers in just the last couple of years, still employs about 500 people, and this particular writer has been continuously employed by this organization for more than 3 decades.

    I don't accept the 'struggling' excuse, especially when you are owned by one of the world's richest men.

  18. Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Like I said, I am not going to participate further. Only pointing out that he is a columnist for those who do not seem to know this. People are free to research this topic and draw their own conclusions; I'm not going to be drawn further into this particular echo chamber - and honestly immediately regretting getting involved at all - because no matter what I might bring to this topic it would be a no-win in this forum.

  19. #169

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    I think it's an important discussion for the betterment of Oklahoma journalism and in turn the OKC community. I have done my best to get objective viewpoints from experts and try and hold myself accountable and raise the bar locally when it comes to proper and best journalistic practices.

    l will add that you have repeatedly defended this particular writer on this forum yet I have never seen you do the same when that same person has used his loud megaphone provided by his powerful employer to trash this site, me personally and directly lift our content without providing due credit.

    That's your prerogative but you're involvement in all of this has been in no way objective or equal.

  20. #170

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    While we are on this subject, here is a particular way that reporting and opinion are intermixed:

    http://newsok.com/local-first-nation...rticle/5578822

    "Local owners" is not even accurate. Charlie Nicholas -- who I believe is the majority owner in FNC -- is not local at all. Is this article supposed to be fact or opinion?? There are strong elements of both here.


    This local ownership ax-grinding is a favorite saw of this particular reporter which is absurd since his own company was acquired by an out-of-state interest several years ago.

    And as I've mentioned elsewhere, defining something as "locally owned" is a complex matter that is often over-simplified to make a predetermined point.

  21. Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    I think it's an important discussion for the betterment of Oklahoma journalism and in turn the OKC community. I have done my best to get objective viewpoints from experts and try and hold myself accountable and raise the bar locally when it comes to proper and best journalistic practices.

    l will add that you have repeatedly defended this particular writer on this forum yet I have never seen you do the same when that same person has used his loud megaphone provided by his powerful employer to trash this site, me personally and directly lift our content without providing due credit.

    That's your prerogative but you're involvement in all of this has been in no way objective or equal.
    1. Produce examples of me "repeatedly defending" the reporter in question. I have stayed away from doing so with purpose, especially in recent years. You may find a few, but very few. You are perhaps confusing postings here with private conversations you and I have had.

    2. You are 100% and CATEGORICALLY incorrect that I do not defend you or this site. I have stuck my neck out privately (and continue to) on your behalf and on the behalf of the site for years, and to people who matter. It would probably be advisable for me not to do so, considering pervasive negative views and lack of understanding that many people have regarding OKCTalk. As you know I believe it is a valuable tool and I believe you are a valuable and well-intentioned voice in our community.

    4. Regarding this particular individual, I strongly encouraged him years ago to stay away from any negative talk of this site, and for the most part in recent years he has done so, to my knowledge. All I know is I am personally exposed to near-constant discussion on this site disparaging and discrediting that publication and that reporter - which I almost never respond to - and these days I rarely if ever hear disparagement from the other party. Also - as I have told you personally - some of the most difficult discussions and heated disagreements I have had with him have been in defense of you and this site, which as I just stated are essentially coming after him at every turn and trashing him and his publication daily. This is not at all difficult to document. Scroll through any thread; it is an obsession of this site. To suggest I haven't is simply not true, and honestly insulting, considering how vigorously I defend you to anyone. Like I have said in this post and have told you personally many times before, I stick my neck out for this site, its value, and for Pete himself on a very regular basis. I've expended personal and (I'm sure) political capital on your behalf, and will continue to do so, and I'd thank you to acknowledge this. I know for a fact that you're aware of it.

    3. Finally, regarding me being involved in the discussion, I will once again say that it is only to point out that Steve is a columnist in addition to being a reporter. Some people seem to be unaware of this. This isn't a defense of him. It is only clarification.

  22. #172

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    ^^^^^^^
    As Pete knows I restrain myself from getting involved in this conversation - because I consider both Pete and Steve friends - but it absolutely must be pointed out here that Steve is a business COLUMNIST. He is paid to give opinion, and to have it appear on the business page. This is standard practice at newspapers all over the country. When it is a column, when he writes in first person, etc., it is SUPPOSED to be the opinion of someone who has covered downtown for years, just like when Berry Trammel writes columns appearing in the sports section, based on his own experiences in sports journalism. When Steve is writing a column it is supposed to be labeled "OKC Central," which is the branding of both his column and of his blog.

    When he writes an ARTICLE, it is ostensibly devoid of opinion, and if you pay attention to which is which, you can see the differences between his columns and his news reporting. Whether he always succeeds is of course debatable, but as has been pointed out, opinion has been leaking into journalism in general, which is unfortunate. I do believe that he tries in this regard. I think it is also fair to say that at times The Oklahoman does a poor job of making it clear that his column is an opinion piece. But again, for the record, he is 100% expected to render opinion in his columns. It is the entire point.
    Steve absolutely, 100% DOES NOT remove his opinion from his articles. In a position with the level of influence such as his, that has always been one of my bigger issues with his reporting.

  23. Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    [...] considering pervasive negative views and lack of understanding that many people have regarding OKCTalk.
    Please forgive my ignorance, but.... why? I personally find OKCTalk to be an incredible resource for learning about new projects and the inner workings of what's happening in OKC. What negative views of the site do you hear?

  24. #174

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    1. Produce examples of me "repeatedly defending" the reporter in question. I have stayed away from doing so with purpose, especially in recent years. You may find a few, but very few. You are perhaps confusing postings here with private conversations you and I have had.

    2. You are 100% and CATEGORICALLY incorrect that I do not defend you or this site. I have stuck my neck out privately (and continue to) on your behalf and on the behalf of the site for years, and to people who matter. It would probably be advisable for me not to do so, considering pervasive negative views and lack of understanding that many people have regarding OKCTalk. As you know I believe it is a valuable tool and I believe you are a valuable and well-intentioned voice in our community.

    4. Regarding this particular individual, I strongly encouraged him years ago to stay away from any negative talk of this site, and for the most part in recent years he has done so, to my knowledge. All I know is I am personally exposed to near-constant discussion on this site disparaging and discrediting that publication and that reporter - which I almost never respond to - and these days I rarely if ever hear disparagement from the other party. Also - as I have told you personally - some of the most difficult discussions and heated disagreements I have had with him have been in defense of you and this site, which as I just stated are essentially coming after him at every turn and trashing him and his publication daily. This is not at all difficult to document. Scroll through any thread; it is an obsession of this site. To suggest I haven't is simply not true, and honestly insulting, considering how vigorously I defend you to anyone. Like I have said in this post and have told you personally many times before, I stick my neck out for this site, its value, and for Pete himself on a very regular basis. I've expended personal and (I'm sure) political capital on your behalf, and will continue to do so, and I'd thank you to acknowledge this. I know for a fact that you're aware of it.

    3. Finally, regarding me being involved in the discussion, I will once again say that it is only to point out that Steve is a columnist in addition to being a reporter. Some people seem to be unaware of this. This isn't a defense of him. It is only clarification.
    I am speaking exclusively to your public comments, which matter greatly and are the only thing that would be apparent to people who read this site.

    I do appreciate your kind words and introductions which have definitely opened some doors and helped mend fences. As to why those fences needed mending in the first place, I think that has been made obvious by my previous comments.

  25. #175

    Default Re: OPUBCO / Oklahoman Business Practices

    Quote Originally Posted by baralheia View Post
    Please forgive my ignorance, but.... why? I personally find OKCTalk to be an incredible resource for learning about new projects and the inner workings of what's happening in OKC. What negative views of the site do you hear?
    This was news to me as well. I've never heard one negative thing about this website.

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