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  1. #51
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    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Is the State expecting a huge influx of people in the next 20 years to justify spend oodles of cash on this?

  2. #52

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    ^
    OTA bonds are a great investment...I've been trying to get some myself over the years. That is the only good thing I can think about this. The Gilcrease and Eastern OK County Bypass are especially egregious boondoggles IMO.

    As recently as 2012, the OTA itself said the Gilcrease extension in Tulsa was not feasible as a toll road. I don't understand what has changed between now and then. I did read that even with this funding, the city of Tulsa will still be on the hook for about $70 million in construction costs. For that fact alone, this project is likely DOA.

    The eastern bypass is the real head scratcher for me. Thru traffic needing to go from 40 to 44 can use the existing JKT, while traffic bypassing 35 could be better served by just extending the JKT SW to 35 in Moore. I don't see the need for an entirely new facility in a sparsely populated part of the county. I wouldn't worry about this causing sprawl since the "east-o-phobia" is pretty baked in the local zeitgeist. Fringe development is pushed by access to utilities (particularly sewers) and school district quality, not road access. Look at the vast emptiness of NE OKC along 77 and 35 as proof of this.

    The only new project that could be justified is the SW extension, but to build on an earlier point, its pretty much useless unless it is extended to 35. I also don't know what people in the DOT are smoking/drinking, but its something strong if they think this is going to start in 2 years with the amount of ROW that needs to be required. We are talking about acquiring entire neighborhoods, some that are less than 5 years old. Not-so-bold prediction: this project will be in litigation hell for the next 4 years, maybe longer.

  3. #53

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by pahdz View Post
    And I did not know that, thanks for clarifying. Exactly how limited is the access?
    When I moved back up here in 2011, there was one exit each to access Georgetown (Hwy 29), Round Rock/Hutto/Taylor (US 79), connections via Hwy 45 to MoPac (essentially at the Pflugerville/Round Rock boundary line east all the way to Cedar Park), Cameron Road (near the Austin Executive Airport), Parmer/ US 290 (just west of Manor), Hwy 71 (Austin-Bergstrom), and Hwy 183. Beyond that you were out in the boonies and closer to San Marcos or San Antonio than Austin.

  4. #54

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by adaniel View Post
    Look at the vast emptiness of NE OKC along 77 and 35 as proof of this. .
    I don't think it will be that way for long. Tons of new homes and building permits in the area.

  5. #55

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Is there a map of the Eastern Loop somewhere?

    I can't seem to find it.

  6. #56

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

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    This would be my best guess as the the general route the extension will take. They only need about 300 feet of width to run this. Once my contacts get plans in hand, I'm sure I can provide more information.

  7. #57

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by cxl144 View Post
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    This would be my best guess as the the general route the extension will take. They only need about 300 feet of width to run this. Once my contacts get plans in hand, I'm sure I can provide more information.
    I live over off of SW 44th and Council a route like this would be a very good choice as it does not displace any big neighborhoods just maybe a few familys that have land and a single house. I am all for this loop extension as it would speed up travel to and from the places I frequent.

  8. #58

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    This won't encourage any more sprawl then what is already happening, although again, the Eastern bypass makes no sense if not extended to Norman. This is not a metro area commuter turnpike like the Kilpatrick turnpike or the Creek Nation turnpike in Tulsa. This is a trucker turnpike.

    If anything, creating a Bypass from Luther to Norman/Noble/Purcell will help liberate the core from being part urban community, part truck stop. The less than ideal businesses to showcase the city to passers-by along Reno between Eastern and Bricktown, and along I-35 from Bricktown to Crossroads, will have to find a new home. The strip clubs, the prostitution motels...go to Luther or Harrah or wherever else (and let me say this is not to disparage truckers as a whole by any means, but even the best truckers know there is a "truck stop culture" that isn't too good...can we get it out of the core, please?). It will enable better developments to encircle the AIMCC around Reno and I-35, and maybe in a few decades, new mixed use residential along I-35 between Reno and Crossroads with a couple of midrises leading into downtown from the south. All the while, reducing metro traffic because of all those Semis that clog up traffic starting and stopping and reducing necessary upkeep on tax payer roads on the interstates. It's more than worrying about sprawl, as the few thousand families that view an eastern bypass as their once in a lifetime chance to buy a new affordable home 40 miles from OKC isn't going to impact the internal development and demand for an urban lifestyle in the core. What little sprawl occurs would hurt Moore, Del City, Midwest City, Edmond more than downtown/bricktown/midtown OKC, which appeals to a different market.

  9. #59

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by cxl144 View Post
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    This would be my best guess as the the general route the extension will take. They only need about 300 feet of width to run this. Once my contacts get plans in hand, I'm sure I can provide more information.
    This route looks plausible. I'm still trying to figure out where the OTA is getting their "7.1 miles" distance figure for this project. It looks like it could be no more than 5, or maybe 6 miles at the absolute max.

  10. #60

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Video Expert View Post
    This route looks plausible. I'm still trying to figure out where the OTA is getting their "7.1 miles" distance figure for this project. It looks like it could be no more than 5, or maybe 6 miles at the absolute max.
    This map is connecting at council and is a little over 5mi the rough draft that was shown with the presentation has it connecting at McArthur I think. If so that would add at least a mile probably. I can't see any other route for this other than the one pictured here.

  11. #61

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by camrun91 View Post
    This map is connecting at council and is a little over 5mi the rough draft that was shown with the presentation has it connecting at McArthur I think. If so that would add at least a mile probably. I can't see any other route for this other than the one pictured here.
    I agree. I come up with around 6 miles at the most based on this route with a eastern terminus at MacArthur. The 7.1 mile distance from the OTA website still puzzles me.

  12. #62

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    My guess is by the time they reconfigure some of the on/off ramps and toll infrastructure that adds on some mileage.

  13. #63

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    ah I think I figured it out... 15th to 29th to 44th = 3, sara to morgan to countyline to council to rockwell= 4 so that is 7 miles

  14. Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    If this is being sold as a traffic congestion reduction measure they need to ban all new construction within 3 miles of every new interchange, lest all the new traffic reducing capacity is filled up with new demand.

  15. #65

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by camrun91 View Post
    I live over off of SW 44th and Council a route like this would be a very good choice as it does not displace any big neighborhoods just maybe a few familys that have land and a single house. I am all for this loop extension as it would speed up travel to and from the places I frequent.
    I live in NW OKC and work at Hobby Lobby so I'm all for it no doubt!

  16. #66

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction


  17. #67

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Where appropriate and during the daylight hours I would very much like to see an 85 MPH speed limit on Oklahoma’s turnpikes interstates and even a few 2 lane roads in select areas.

    Texas has 85 MPH Speed limits in appropriate places…. we can too

  18. #68

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by JAW View Post
    Tthe Eastern bypass makes no sense if not extended to Norman. This is not a metro area commuter turnpike like the Kilpatrick turnpike or the Creek Nation turnpike in Tulsa. This is a trucker turnpike.
    I agree, the east route seems to make a lot more sense as a phase 2. But Norman I-35 to I-240 or I-40 seems like it would be a much more useful road. Especially considering the amount of traffic on I-35 south of I-40 now. Really the should start of the end of the H.E. Bailey Spar and loop that around. Especially when you think about the rate of development in Norman and Moore vs East OK County, and what that will do for land costs.

  19. #69

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by ou48A View Post
    Where appropriate and during the daylight hours I would very much like to see an 85 MPH speed limit on Oklahoma’s turnpikes interstates and even a few 2 lane roads in select areas.

    Texas has 85 MPH Speed limits in appropriate places…. we can too
    I love Texas speed limits and would like to see them here, especially on turnpikes. But going head to head at 85 MPH on a fairly busy 2 lane highway is pretty scary. If someone drifts across the line and you hit head on, you better just kiss your butt goodbye. That said, I drive it when I have the opportunity, I just hug the shoulder more than normal, which they actually have in Texas.

  20. #70

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    These outer loops are nothing new. ODOT has been trying to get them built since at least the 1990s

    Outer Loop Plan Narrowed Officials Unveil Proposal for Southwest Portion | News OK

  21. #71

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    I'm anxious to see the route planned for eastern Oklahoma County, because that's dense rural development.

  22. #72

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    I love Texas speed limits and would like to see them here, especially on turnpikes. But going head to head at 85 MPH on a fairly busy 2 lane highway is pretty scary. If someone drifts across the line and you hit head on, you better just kiss your butt goodbye. That said, I drive it when I have the opportunity, I just hug the shoulder more than normal, which they actually have in Texas.
    That why I indicated select 2 lane roads….
    I have driven thousands of miles in the OK panhandle… Those are the type of highways I'm talking about.
    On a 40 mile day time trip it’s not uncommon to only see 5 to 10 other moving vehicles on a major highway in the western parts of the panhandle…

    Those people face a much different set of road conditions than we do in central Ok

  23. #73

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Still no official maps?

  24. #74

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by cxl144 View Post
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    This would be my best guess as the the general route the extension will take. They only need about 300 feet of width to run this. Once my contacts get plans in hand, I'm sure I can provide more information.
    Ever since the Hwy 9 extenion was tied in at I-44/H.E. Bailey by Bridgecreek, I envisioned it going on up north through Mustang and tying in here at the Kilpatrick. There are some neighborhoods there that would be affected though.

  25. #75

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	11737 I took this map from http://media.wix.com/ugd/7181a5_aeb3...69a802528f.pdf and added my thoughts.

    IMO Kilpatrick should be extended to HW 4. HW 4 already runs into H. E. Bailey which runs into HW9 south of Norman. I've said this for A LONG time now but HW9 south of the river should be extended over the river. Currently having one river crossing along I-35 is ridiculous and is a constant source of backups. East of Thunderbird add a spur up to I-40 and it would tie in at the Northeast OK County Loop which runs up to Luther/Jones. At that point you basically have a loop around the metro in all directions.
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