Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

[emtefury]

The meeting information in Mustang was officially posted for the Southwest loop.

Driving Forward OK

[MagzOK]

Also, people actually drive from Tulsa to Dallas through OKC? Seriously, Take 75 to Indian Nation to 69. Easy as pie.

Actually daily traffic counts show that truck traffic is much heavier on I35 and the Turner from the Dallas area up into Missouri compared to US69/75. From the counts one could conclude that a majority of tucking companies like the more controlled access that I35 and the Turner provide rather than US 69/75, which is an uncontrolled access facility. Not to say no trucks travel the 69/75 route..... But then again, spurring off of I35 and heading NE around OKC proper would be the way to go and help this truck traffic around the metro.

Also there is nowhere that I can find where any official discusses the future of eventually connecting this new turnpike to 35 as stated earlier. Back in the day when the JKT was built from I35 over to the Hefner Parkway, it was no secret that one day, when future traffic counts warrant, that the JKT was intended to extend down to I40. Then again, I'm wondering if this isn't some way to spur the eastern "outer loop" that was proposed by ODOT some 20 years ago that was shot down primarily eastern Oklahoma county communities -- Norman and MWC I remember were for it. Maybe the thought of putting a turnpike out in the east that doesn't connect 35 to anything, just maybe once that is built then after a few years transportation officials can come up with the "new idea" to bridge the gap and connect the new turnpike down to 35. It's more obstacle-laden for ODOT to just go in without public consent and build a new corridor. So maybe after that was shot down years ago, transportation officials wanted the issue to die down then have it reborn with the Turnpike Authority where they can just do what they want really even with public outrage. Really, it would be easier then for ODOT to take the "common sense" approach and say hey, let's bridge this gap! Let OTA put concrete up the noses of those that opposed the outer loop the most, then ODOT can come in and finish the rest in the communities that wanted it in the first place. LOL. Brilliant cronyism.

It's early, I'm rambling.

[Laramie]

If you live in Tulsa, you're surrounded by turnpikes because most of the major roads in or out of T-town lead to a turnpike toll.

[emtefury]

This route is what has been floating around the HOA and close to what has been posted earlier on this thread. If this is it, it will be about 200 yards from my house. The route makes sense, as in what it could be, because it weaves it way through the neighborhoods. We will see going on with the meeting tomorrow. I will report back from the meeting.

[OKCisOK4me]

Image is too blurry.

[Spartan]

Almost none of the new turnpike will be in OKC. So it won't do that at all

You don't think development would leapfrog past OKC's city limits?

[cxl144]

Here is a scan of the map presented at the public OTA meeting last night in Mustang. Within the bounds of the yellow lines is the study area for the alignment. Should be fairly obvious where it will begin and terminate.

[Zuplar]

Here is a scan of the map presented at the public OTA meeting last night in Mustang. Within the bounds of the yellow lines is the study area for the alignment. Should be fairly obvious where it will begin and terminate.

Saw that on FB last night. All I know is glad I don't live over there, cause you just know it's going to be a mess while it's being constructed and then noisy afterwards.

[cxl144]

Saw that on FB last night. All I know is glad I don't live over there, cause you just know it's going to be a mess while it's being constructed and then noisy afterwards.

People don't realize how much sound is already generated by a combination of Mustang Road, I40, and being sandwiched between two different train routes. From their discussion last night I don't believe they have any large scale plans for running the alignment through existing established subdivisions. The best outcome will be to get more road improvements in area, better storm drainage, and as many trees as possible to attenuate the additional noise.

[HangryHippo]

At this point, why don't they just run it down Sara Rd.? At least doing that, they could eventually connect it with HWY 4 south of 152 and connect to the Norman spur.

[baralheia]

I've wondered that since this part of the loop was proposed. This really should be working toward a connection with OK-4 and not OK-152.

[emtefury]

The pike is going to go about 100 yards from my house. The red line in the picture I posted is accurate.

I also initially though it would connect to OK-4 to create a loop. I believe it still may in the future.

The problem I see is connecting to 152 does alleviate the traffic build up at the 44/240 interchange that 152 feeds into. The planned turnpike will feed traffic to the same place, just from two different places.

Mr. riddley (spelling) said the plan is to have ODOT add a lane to 44 North of the interchange then go south to wherever. I still don't think that will change anything with the traffic build up

[HangryHippo]

Mr. riddley (spelling) said the plan is to have ODOT add a lane to 44 North of the interchange then go south to wherever. I still don't think that will change anything with the traffic build up

This is typical of Ridley's poor practices. Add a lane before or after the interchange, but leave the interchange, which is the real choke point, the same. It just creates bigger problems.

[Zuplar]

The other point of the SW extension is to add another route to Will Rogers. Connecting to Hwy 4 only really doesn't solve that. Ideally they'd do both at some point.

[emtefury]

This is typical of Ridley's poor practices. Add a lane before or after the interchange, but leave the interchange, which is the real choke point, the same. It just creates bigger problems.

I agree. The problem is 152 crosses traffic with 44 to get onto 240. There could be 20 lanes added and the problem would be the same. There needs to be a 44 West flyover, so 44 West traffic can stay on 44west without getting crossed by 152 traffic. All other traffic going wherever will be a merge.

[emtefury]

The other point of the SW extension is to add another route to Will Rogers. Connecting to Hwy 4 only really doesn't solve that. Ideally they'd do both at some point.

There is not much traffic that goes to the Airport. Mr. Riddley even said 152 is underutilized.

[cxl144]

I work around I40 and Meridian. The execs at our company that live in and around Gaillardia have taken to using the turnpike to to avoid the traffic on I44. The proposed alignment will allow traffic that is now using I44 and I40 to bypass those congested corridors and efficiently access the outer loop. As for connecting to highway 4, that can still be done by going westbound on 152 about 3.5 miles. Not ideal but hopefully in the future when Sara is widened, there will be an interchange to accommodate quick transit down Sara to the 4/152 junction.

[stile99]

There WILL be a connection to OK-4...eventually. When the 'new' spur of the Kilpatrick was finished around 15 years ago, everyone knew the plan was to 'someday' extend it, and here we are finally discussing it.

Unfortunately, in the meantime a subdivision was built directly in the most-likely path and that's part of what we're discussing. There's no telling what will be built by the time we discuss connecting Kilpatrick with OK-4 in 2030. This is exactly why I mentioned in another thread that we need to discuss things we KNOW are going to happen in advance, rather than wait a couple years too late and only then start discussing it.

[emtefury]

There WILL be a connection to OK-4...eventually. When the 'new' spur of the Kilpatrick was finished around 15 years ago, everyone knew the plan was to 'someday' extend it, and here we are finally discussing it.

Unfortunately, in the meantime a subdivision was built directly in the most-likely path and that's part of what we're discussing. There's no telling what will be built by the time we discuss connecting Kilpatrick with OK-4 in 2030. This is exactly why I mentioned in another thread that we need to discuss things we KNOW are going to happen in advance, rather than wait a couple years too late and only then start discussing it.

Someone asked this question about what happened 15 years ago. Mr Ridley said he was part of the discussions back then and the problem was a lack of funding. I took the answer at face value. However, now that I think about it, should funding have been an issue because OTA is not using appropriated funds, they are using bonds.

[Snowman]

There WILL be a connection to OK-4...eventually. When the 'new' spur of the Kilpatrick was finished around 15 years ago, everyone knew the plan was to 'someday' extend it, and here we are finally discussing it.

Unfortunately, in the meantime a subdivision was built directly in the most-likely path and that's part of what we're discussing. There's no telling what will be built by the time we discuss connecting Kilpatrick with OK-4 in 2030. This is exactly why I mentioned in another thread that we need to discuss things we KNOW are going to happen in advance, rather than wait a couple years too late and only then start discussing it.

It did strike me as odd they did not work with Mustang and OKC to keep the most natural path from getting permits to build on it, twenty years ago there should not have been much of an issue choosing a path, with recent development it would already be a pain connecting the two, ignore it for another 15 years and it will be even worse.

Someone asked this question about what happened 15 years ago. Mr Ridley said he was part of the discussions back then and the problem was a lack of funding. I took the answer at face value. However, now that I think about it, should funding have been an issue because OTA is not using appropriated funds, they are using bonds.

From what I had heard it was political will, which for an agency that does bonds, that can pretty much be the same thing.

[rte66man]

Someone asked this question about what happened 15 years ago. Mr Ridley said he was part of the discussions back then and the problem was a lack of funding. I took the answer at face value. However, now that I think about it, should funding have been an issue because OTA is not using appropriated funds, they are using bonds.

You must remember that OTA is sometimes maxed out on their legal bond indebtedness. Back around 2000, that was the case.

[thebigtamale]

I want to live 15 miles from the state's capital and largest city but also live on a horse ranch with no one around for 50 miles. It's a great place to live, but no one else is allowed to come anywhere close.

[Plutonic Panda]

I want to live 15 miles from the state's capital and largest city but also live on a horse ranch with no one around for 50 miles. It's a great place to live, but no one else is allowed to come anywhere close.

lol

That is what really irks me about a lot of these protesters is they simply don't want new growth.

I've even suggested to some that they check out new urbanism(even though I am not a fan of it) to help support their argument so they'd at least have somewhat of a point, but they simply don't want any growth. Sucks for them.

Thing is, you can't expect to live 15 miles or even 30 miles from the core of a major metropolitan area and expect a country lifestlye. A lot of cities will go out even further than that. There is no sense of pride with these people and I don't think they really care about their community, they just want what they have been used to. If they did care, then they would probably want this to happen as it would spur new economic development. Instead a bitching about it, they should make sure it doesn't turn into a boring bedroom community like Moore.

They can prevent sprawl by requiring certain zoning elements and work with property owners to develop their downtowns. Make sure the OTA provides landscaping and artwork. Put a hold on new zoning within a certain radius of the interchanges along the highway.

This tollway is going to give them more accessibility. That puts their downtown closer to Oklahoma City's downtown. They can use this to their advantage. Promote tourism and new restaurants and businesses so the new drivers that are going to be closer to their downtown can get off and spend money there.

If they don't want new subdivisions then zone everything for agricultural use or keep the current zoning as it is(I'm suspecting most of it is rural).

If you want a small town with cheap living and cheap land, there is no shortage of that in pretty much every part of Oklahoma. People from around the country aren't exactly competing to move here, so prices aren't that bad and it's easy to build.

I have tried making arguments with protesters and all I get in response is "I hope your house burns down in fire" . . . "Why don't you donate your house in Edmond to the OTA so they can build the turnpike through there" . . . "you're just a dick and don't care about anyone but yourself because you want this tollway built so you can use it" . . . "

I even responded to someone on the OTA FB page after someone made a comment about how it was some conspiracy that the sheriffs blocked the doors and after I responded and said that was probably due to fire and occupancy limit codes I got a response from another turnpike protester saying that I the conspiracy guy was smart and I wasn't so he is listening to the other guy and then they had a little back and forth between themselves(probably was the same guy with a different account) and I didn't even bother responding.

I get that there are some people out there with perfectly valid reasons as to why they don't want to see this built, but so far, everyone I have debated this with is just flat out irrational or someone who doesn't want growth and then resorts to trolling after they are unable to provide any counter arguments.

One other thing that really irks me about this is a lot of people are claiming their property is going to be affected but there is no set route. So I think the best solution is to wait and see where it is going before getting up in arms about whether ones property is going to be affected or not.

[MadMonk]

lol

That is what really irks me about a lot of these protesters is they simply don't want new growth.

I've even suggested to some that they check out new urbanism(even though I am not a fan of it) to help support their argument so they'd at least have somewhat of a point, but they simply don't want any growth. Sucks for them.

Thing is, you can't expect to live 15 miles or even 30 miles from the core of a major metropolitan area and expect a country lifestlye. A lot of cities will go out even further than that. There is no sense of pride with these people and I don't think they really care about their community, they just want what they have been used to. If they did care, then they would probably want this to happen as it would spur new economic development. Instead a bitching about it, they should make sure it doesn't turn into a boring bedroom community like Moore.

They can prevent sprawl by requiring certain zoning elements and work with property owners to develop their downtowns. Make sure the OTA provides landscaping and artwork. Put a hold on new zoning within a certain radius of the interchanges along the highway.

This tollway is going to give them more accessibility. That puts their downtown closer to Oklahoma City's downtown. They can use this to their advantage. Promote tourism and new restaurants and businesses so the new drivers that are going to be closer to their downtown can get off and spend money there.

If they don't want new subdivisions then zone everything for agricultural use or keep the current zoning as it is(I'm suspecting most of it is rural).

If you want a small town with cheap living and cheap land, there is no shortage of that in pretty much every part of Oklahoma. People from around the country aren't exactly competing to move here, so prices aren't that bad and it's easy to build.

I have tried making arguments with protesters and all I get in response is "I hope your house burns down in fire" . . . "Why don't you donate your house in Edmond to the OTA so they can build the turnpike through there" . . . "you're just a dick and don't care about anyone but yourself because you want this tollway built so you can use it" . . . "

I even responded to someone on the OTA FB page after someone made a comment about how it was some conspiracy that the sheriffs blocked the doors and after I responded and said that was probably due to fire and occupancy limit codes I got a response from another turnpike protester saying that I the conspiracy guy was smart and I wasn't so he is listening to the other guy and then they had a little back and forth between themselves(probably was the same guy with a different account) and I didn't even bother responding.

I get that there are some people out there with perfectly valid reasons as to why they don't want to see this built, but so far, everyone I have debated this with is just flat out irrational or someone who doesn't want growth and then resorts to trolling after they are unable to provide any counter arguments.

One other thing that really irks me about this is a lot of people are claiming their property is going to be affected but there is no set route. So I think the best solution is to wait and see where it is going before getting up in arms about whether ones property is going to be affected or not.

Yeh, but I wonder if you'd feel the same way if a turnpike was being planned to go through your neighborhood.

[oklip955]

Hey the BigT the place you are describing is my place. No neighbors and Edmond to boot. And yes I'm about that close.