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  1. #226

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Oklahoma City metro area definitely needs to tie its interstate system where its loops around the city. This will benefit eastern Oklahoma County where you could see a future boom in development with the inexpensive parcels of land in that area.

  2. #227

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by AP View Post
    Ok. Let's build it then. Save me ten minutes on my drive from dfw to tulsa.
    I don't even think it's about saving time for driver's whose destination is NOT Oklahoma City, it's about freeing up capacity for local drivers (I think...).

  3. #228

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    I think this highway should be built. It could serve as a great asset for Tinker and Eastern Oklahoma County and help grow the aerospace sector even more.

    I don't want to sound snobby or elitist, but Eastern Oklahoma County has a lot to improve on. I don't understand how new infrastructure can be a bad thing. I don't have much sympathy for people out there due to the fact they are less than 30 miles from the core of a large metro area. New highways and roads will bring jobs, growth, and new money for Oklahoma City. The best thing about this is it won't cost tax payers a dime.

    Any new utility costs will be associated with new businesses and housing that will result from this. The spraw that might result from this will only contribute to more infill closer to the core as developers take note of the growing metro.

    I do agree that the southwest has huge infrastructure needs and a loop around Norman would be great as well as creating a true beltway for Oklahoma City. What I want to see is ROW preserved because I think there is going to be need for new spur between I-35 and I-44 someday between I240 and Canadian River. The way to do this is how Texas does it. Build a four lane parkway with a giant ass median and when the time calls for it, turn it into a highway with service roads.

    Overall, I do agree that there are big infrastructure needs for the southwest and the south metro in general, but I do also agree that the Eastern Turnpike was needed. It was noted for years that this was under consideration. No one wants their house torn down for a rail or highway project, but I am willing to bet this has traffic counts north of 15,000 within the first 3-5 years it is open. Eventually it will be a vital asset for Eastern Oklahoma County and the surrounding communities that will ultimately benefit by having this tollway to allow for easier commute by car from the suburbs to downtown OKC.

    This will help the metro over all, imo.
    I couldn't disagree more. There's a lot of rural area out there and some of the most untouched land in left in Oklahoma County.. By it's very nature, there's not a lot of infrastructure. And the folks out there like it that way. I lived in eastern Okla county for 10 years. Had personal circumstances not required me to move back in to town, I would still be living out there.

    Why do people who don't live out there, and have little or nothing to do with that part of the county or anyone who lives there, think they know what's best for those who live out there?. Folks who live out there, or move out there do so because they want rural living. They don't want the "big city" out there. There's been talk of this loop for years, and we had a pretty good idea back then where the general route would be. Most folks didn't want it then, and they don't want it now.

  4. #229

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by bradh View Post
    I actually had a chance to speak with Ridley at an unrelated event yesterday, and to just call people an idiot because you don't agree with the facts they've presented is short sighted, but hey, internet so do what you want right?

    What do you see as needed for OTA? Do you understand why this route was proposed? Just the slightest bit of relief for the Dallas/Ft Smith Junction that would come from this expansion would be worth it because that's not getting any better.

    Of all the proposals though, the one for the Will Rogers from the Creek TP exist to Bristow is nice, it's basically going to be a copy of what the new Kilpatrick section is like now for that 26 or so miles.
    Yep, internet - the same place you get to make your assumptions. I've had the misfortune of interacting with Gary on multiple occasions and the man is an idiot. Not to mention he used to be an asphalt lobbyist before being named the head of ODOT. And I've given numerous examples of other projects that would make more of a difference than this unnecessary expansion. Relief for the Dallas-Ft. Smith junction could have come from better design, not from an entirely new turnpike miles to the east.

  5. #230

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Brasky View Post
    Yep, internet - the same place you get to make your assumptions. I've had the misfortune of interacting with Gary on multiple occasions and the man is an idiot. Not to mention he used to be an asphalt lobbyist before being named the head of ODOT. And I've given numerous examples of other projects that would make more of a difference than this unnecessary expansion. Relief for the Dallas-Ft. Smith junction could have come from better design, not from an entirely new turnpike miles to the east.
    In this thread, so I can limit my search since you can't be troubled to repeat your better ideas?

    I will say screw asphalt though, hate that crap.

  6. #231

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by bradh View Post
    In this thread, so I can limit my search since you can't be troubled to repeat your better ideas?

    I will say screw asphalt though, hate that crap.
    I'll recap a few that I see as more helpful more than the Eastern loop here in a bit.

    We found common ground! Asphalt blows.

  7. #232

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Brasky View Post
    I'll recap a few that I see as more helpful more than the Eastern loop here in a bit.

    We found common ground! Asphalt blows.
    I don't mean to be brash.

    In Houston where I'm from, it's all concrete and for the most part, it's great (fewer potholes but more bumps). In Arizona where I was for a while, more asphalt, but without the wild weather hardly any potholes and super smooth asphalt roads.

    Maybe Oklahoma just sucks for road building in general.

  8. Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    If there is no future plans to expand it to the north and south to tie into I-35 then this turnpike is dumb.

    As for saving time driving from Dallas to Tulsa, use 75 and it will save you a whole bunch of time.

  9. #234

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by worthy cook View Post
    If there is no future plans to expand it to the north and south to tie into I-35 then this turnpike is dumb.
    That was mentioned in the presentation I saw, but way down the line obviously

  10. #235

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by rezman View Post
    I couldn't disagree more. There's a lot of rural area out there and some of the most untouched land in left in Oklahoma County.. By it's very nature, there's not a lot of infrastructure. And the folks out there like it that way. I lived in eastern Okla county for 10 years. Had personal circumstances not required me to move back in to town, I would still be living out there.

    Why do people who don't live out there, and have little or nothing to do with that part of the county or anyone who lives there, think they know what's best for those who live out there?. Folks who live out there, or move out there do so because they want rural living. They don't want the "big city" out there. There's been talk of this loop for years, and we had a pretty good idea back then where the general route would be. Most folks didn't want it then, and they don't want it now.
    If you want the country life, then it is probably a good idea to live further away than 30 miles from the core a major city.

  11. Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    ^You're kidding right? 30 miles?

  12. #237

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by AP View Post
    ^You're kidding right? 30 miles?
    I am being serious. 30 miles isn't that far. A lot of metros start out at about that.

    It is a good thing this tollway is being built. I bet many of the people that bitched about it will use it and get used to it.

  13. #238

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    I fail to see how a highway in that corridor will alleviate I-35 traffic. It would be one thing if it started as a branch directly off of I35 and looped all the way around the city and connected back with I35. But to connect I40 and I44 -- that far out, I just fail to see why. I would be mad if I lived over in eastern Okla county. There's a certain way of life folks look for when they move out there. They like the country living yet so close to civilization. That part of the county is unique in that respect. It's their neighborhood so I would let them decide if they wanted it. Now I would have a different take if I believed that it would serve the greater good in being a loop as I previously described.

  14. #239

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by MagzOK View Post
    I fail to see how a highway in that corridor will alleviate I-35 traffic. It would be one thing if it started as a branch directly off of I35 and looped all the way around the city and connected back with I35. But to connect I40 and I44 -- that far out, I just fail to see why. I would be mad if I lived over in eastern Okla county. There's a certain way of life folks look for when they move out there. They like the country living yet so close to civilization. That part of the county is unique in that respect. It's their neighborhood so I would let them decide if they wanted it. Now I would have a different take if I believed that it would serve the greater good in being a loop as I previously described.
    I do believe it will eventually connect to a true beltway around OKC. I don't know how it couldn't.

    I will say this- I don't like the way they handled the seminar. It wasn't very professional and they knew from the beginning that these people would throw a fit and they still screwed some things up. I like how they are proceeding with this and I do agree the best way for the people affected to have their input. This is getting built.

  15. #240

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    My concern about that corridor is the exact "future boom in development" that others in this thread are seeing as a positive. If it ends up as yet another highway surrounded by service roads, a few big box stores, and suburban development, that's going to do nothing but spread the city's maintenance costs ever more thinly.

  16. #241

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by MagzOK View Post
    I fail to see how a highway in that corridor will alleviate I-35 traffic. It would be one thing if it started as a branch directly off of I35 and looped all the way around the city and connected back with I35. But to connect I40 and I44 -- that far out, I just fail to see why. I would be mad if I lived over in eastern Okla county. There's a certain way of life folks look for when they move out there. They like the country living yet so close to civilization. That part of the county is unique in that respect. It's their neighborhood so I would let them decide if they wanted it. Now I would have a different take if I believed that it would serve the greater good in being a loop as I previously described.
    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    My concern about that corridor is the exact "future boom in development" that others in this thread are seeing as a positive. If it ends up as yet another highway surrounded by service roads, a few big box stores, and suburban development, that's going to do nothing but spread the city's maintenance costs ever more thinly.
    Exactly.

  17. #242

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Why doesn't ODOT and the Turnpike group get rid of the toll booths?? Go to the Texas model? Everyone pays either way. We then don't have to pay people to sit in a booth, therefore, saving money? Am I missing something?

    Really saddened to see no updates to the Stillwater Spur/Cimarron Turnpike up north by me. The toll booths and areas are awful! You have to slow to 30 to go through. They're extremely narrow, especially for large trucks. Just sad to see expansion before we update our current facilities and tollways.

  18. #243

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by _Cramer_ View Post
    Why doesn't ODOT and the Turnpike group get rid of the toll booths?? Go to the Texas model? Everyone pays either way. We then don't have to pay people to sit in a booth, therefore, saving money? Am I missing something?

    Really saddened to see no updates to the Stillwater Spur/Cimarron Turnpike up north by me. The toll booths and areas are awful! You have to slow to 30 to go through. They're extremely narrow, especially for large trucks. Just sad to see expansion before we update our current facilities and tollways.
    They're working on it, that's part of the package for the Muskogee and HE Bailey TP's, is to update their old booths where EVERYONE has to slow down to at least having the high speed lanes for PikePass holders.

  19. #244

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    My concern about that corridor is the exact "future boom in development" that others in this thread are seeing as a positive. If it ends up as yet another highway surrounded by service roads, a few big box stores, and suburban development, that's going to do nothing but spread the city's maintenance costs ever more thinly.
    Almost none of the new turnpike will be in OKC. So it won't do that at all

  20. #245

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by BoulderSooner View Post
    Almost none of the new turnpike will be in OKC. So it won't do that at all
    Fair enough, but that does depend at least a little on where it is built. Looking at the city ward map as a guide, it has to at least start in ward 4, and depending on the northern end it some portion of it could be in ward 7.

  21. #246

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    This is just a guess, but I'm betting on the north end to be in the area of the Hogback Road interchange.

  22. #247

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by ljbab728 View Post
    An interesting comment at the recent meeting in Choctaw.

    Oklahoma transportation secretary admits agency missteps in turnpike plan near Choctaw | NewsOK.com



    In other words your best option is to give us input about how this is done, not if it is done.
    I don't get his reasoning. Wouldn't John Kilpatrick Turnpike already provide a north south route and be hooked up with 35 much easier than building an entirely new road out in the middle of nowhere?

    Also, people actually drive from Tulsa to Dallas through OKC? Seriously, Take 75 to Indian Nation to 69. Easy as pie.

  23. #248

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by adaniel View Post
    Also, people actually drive from Tulsa to Dallas through OKC? Seriously, Take 75 to Indian Nation to 69. Easy as pie.
    Depends on where you are going in the DFW area. If we were going to Arlington or an place west of the Galleria, then 44 to 35 was way faster due to all the stoplights on 69 between McAlester and Durant. Fewer speed traps too.

  24. #249

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by bradh View Post
    I don't even think it's about saving time for driver's whose destination is NOT Oklahoma City, it's about freeing up capacity for local drivers (I think...).
    I can't figure out what out of towners would actually benefit from this either.

    • DFW-Tulsa, After you deal with I-35 to I-40, it'd be quicker and much shorter to go up on 235 or 35.
    • Tulsa-DFW, Maybe, but it would be much longer and you'd still have to deal with the horrible I-40/I-35S interchange and the traffic on I-35S through Norman
    • I-40W-Tulsa, Again, it would be shorter and quicker to go up Kilpatrick, I-44, 235 or 35
    • Ft Smith-Wichita, You'd go through Tulsa.


    I would love to see the traffic models for this and how it will relieve I-35 or I-235 at all. This will also be the 5th North-South Highway that is bound by I-40 on the south and the Turner/Kilpatrick on North. Only one goes farther North and only 2 go further South.

    According to the traffic counts from ODOT, Sooner Road at 240 already has more traffic (16,900 cars a day and 32,300 at I-40) on it than they are predicting for this turnpike. I-35 at I-240 is running 10x the predicted amount, at 140,000 cars a day. Broadway in Edmond is at 52,400.

    I am all for infrastructure getting built. I just don't see how this will benefit the metro compared to many other corridors that are very under served today. This will be the lowest traffic highway in OKC or Tulsa, and will not relieve the current highways in the metro.

    Traffic Counts

    Edit: I just looked up OTA's traffic counts. There is no way this turnpike will see anywhere near 15,000 cars a day any time soon. The OKC Terminus of the Turner is only pulling 28K a day and the Kilpatrick @ I-40 is only 21K/day.

    This will have less traffic than the Creek in East BA, which is pulling 10K/day. Which is closer in and serves as a real bypass around Tulsa.

  25. #250

    Default Re: Driving Forward OK - Oklahoma Turnpike Improvements and New Construction

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    I do believe it will eventually connect to a true beltway around OKC. I don't know how it couldn't.
    The problem is, this should probably be the last segment built on a grand loop, definitely not the first.

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