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  1. #1

    Default Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Here are the real details on the long rumored Eliot Nelson project in the Blue Dome area. This is the site of a huge two block long parking lot that extends from Elgin to Greenwood between 1st and 2nd streets. The info was found on LoopNet as they are now preleasing.

    Total Project 600,000 square feet
    291 Apartments
    170,000 sq ft of office space
    140,000 sq ft of retail space
    105 room hotel
    1450 structured parking spaces

    They are preserving the existing historic structure on the site, The Santa Fe Depot, and incorporating it into the Hotel part of the project.

    New images:



    Link to PDF:
    http://x.lnimg.com/attachments/AB871...34B8E5900A.pdf

  2. #2

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Wow. This is going to do so much to bring the district together.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Quote Originally Posted by dankrutka View Post
    Wow. This is going to do so much to bring the district together.
    Like the rug in The Big Lebowski...

  4. #4

  5. #5

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Some more renderings






  6. #6

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Very nice!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    I've already said this, but this development really will fill in that area. It will change the entire feel of that area. Tremendous.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Hoping to break ground in 2016, that's about all there is that's new:

    Developer Has Plans For $150M Project For Blue Dome District - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com |

    One observation: if this gets going along with the PAC parking lot overhaul and it meets closely with what has been envisioned, downtown Tulsa will boom. We're talking with the already present addition of the other apartment units scattered about, and concentrated in the East Village. Then you add this development on top of the re-development proposed for the PAC parking lot and downtown Tulsa becomes hot overnight.

    Really exciting.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    This is going to be a beautiful project! Very excited about it. They just need to get more serious about that grocery store because if that happened along with the tornado tower and the Pop Culture Museum, downtown Tulsa would have some seriously cool projects going on.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District


  11. #11

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Tulsa Mayor's Office Signs Off On East Village Development - NewsOn6.com - Tulsa, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports - KOTV.com |

    The related TIF has been approved and this project is a go. They hope to start construction this year.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    How much TIF are they getting?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Quote Originally Posted by Teo9969 View Post
    How much TIF are they getting?
    The City of Tulsa has posted the TIF Project Plan on their website (link). It has a total budget of $36.2M.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Quote Originally Posted by TexanOkie View Post
    The City of Tulsa has posted the TIF Project Plan on their website (link). It has a total budget of $36.2M.
    The way I understand it the TIF has a total project budget of $60M+ and that Santa Fe Square is getting $36.2M.

    That's 25% of the development...Elliot Nelson probably deserves it as not only has he done amazing things for Tulsa, he's also found a way to syphon money out of OKC and send it up the turnpike...but still...25% is a LOT of public subsidy.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    ^

    Total project cost is estimated at $160MM and they are requesting TIF funds for $36.2MM, which is 22.6% of the total project cost.

    That is a ton of money, both in total and as a percentage.

    OKC typically awards 5 to 8% with the high being 10% to 21c.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    What was the ask for the OGE building and residential towers?

  17. #17

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Quote Originally Posted by Motley View Post
    What was the ask for the OGE building and residential towers?
    $143M TIF / $553M Project Cost 25%.

    Project dead.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    It looks like the Tulsa media is just as out to lunch as the OKC media.

    You just have to acknowledge that the city is paying for 20%+ of someone else's private project.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Interesting to see if Tulsa feels the money will act to accelerate other developments, making is a worthwhile investment.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Nobody really understands TIF in Oklahoma, which is why these districts get passed so easily and the money spent without much question.

    California has had TIF for 60 years and finally figured out the realities; that you are robbing other beneficiaries of property tax (mainly schools) and giving the money to private developers. Now, those programs have been highly curtailed.

    It's so complex people don't really get this, and that's the way the economic development agencies in cities want it. No public vote, no real understanding... Just moving tax dollars around and distributing them with quasi oversight, where the people ultimately approving (usually city council) are fed unproven propaganda from one side.

    There are some really good applications for TIF, like the Skirvin, First National Center or even the Wheeler District. Projects that really do need a leg up and then will drive legitimate new development and revenue.

    But giving private developers millions in gifted tax dollars for brand new projects on completely cleared pieces of land surrounded by billions in public investment... Not only does it not make sense it creates an incredibly unfair competitive environment where if you don't get the same type of incentives, you are severely disadvantaged.

    BTW, OKC has yet to use any TIF dollars for the dozens of new hotels that have sprung up around downtown. Apart from the Skirvin, which was a massive renovation mess.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    To me, it is similar to the new stadium arguments in San Diego. Does the investment by the city/taxpayers spur other development and tourism to compensate for the massive subsidy to the team owners? I always felt one argument for the Clayco development was that it would help to push OKC up to another level when it comes to the downtown area and be a real catalyst to further growth.

    I have seen reports that having the Chargers in SD will not compensate for the investment, but I sure think all the money spent to get the Thunder in OKC was well worth it. Very doubtful that the Clayco development would make the same impact on OKC, but it would have enhanced the skyline nicely.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    There isn’t any large amount of public money that has been spent in the Blue Dome/East Village area of Tulsa and this is a true mixed use project with four components:

    1. Residential – 291 Units
    2. Office – 170,000 square feet
    3. Retail – 80,000 square feet
    4. Parking – 1,450 parking spaces

    It does this while preserving the Santa Fe Depot building as part of the hotel as well.

    This is intended to spur other developments other than just bar/restaurants in Blue Dome and it links The East Village and Blue Dome areas together while it maintains the current parking that this lot provides for the area.

    Tulsa also hasn’t hit the TIF well as hard as OKC, Tulsa only has four TIF districts.
    Blue Dome, now valued at $60 million with this project getting $36 million
    Brady Village, $4.5 million
    Tulsa Hills, $16.5 million
    North Peoria, $8 million

    All of them combined are only half the size of OKCs Devon TIF.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    The Devon TIF is Project 180 IIRC. So that well was for public improvements downtown and not to subsidize the tower.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Quote Originally Posted by Teo9969 View Post
    The Devon TIF is Project 180 IIRC. So that well was for public improvements downtown and not to subsidize the tower.
    The $36M "assistance in development financing" supports the cost of the parking structure and streetscape improvements for the Santa Fe Square project, not to subsidize the mixed use buildings or hotel components.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Santa Fe Square in the Blue Dome District

    Quote Originally Posted by TexanOkie View Post
    The $36M "assistance in development financing" supports the cost of the parking structure and streetscape improvements for the Santa Fe Square project, not to subsidize the mixed use buildings or hotel components.
    The streetscape is chump change so the real question then is who makes the money from the parking garage? Because if it's not the city then you're being incredibly disingenuous saying that it's earmarked "only for the Parking and streetscape".

    It's not the city's garage, it's a subsidy to the product at large. They couldn't build what they're building with out addressing the parking, and you can bury your head in the sand and choose to believe that the rest of the parking is going to be free to the public that's paying for said parking, but we all know it's going to cost anyone who isn't living/working/staying at the facility and they will be paying Elliot Nelson.

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