Nic's Diner + Lounge

[catch22]

Does design review go north of 10th? I was thinking it does. Paint would require design review and wouldn't pass if the building were unpainted. If so, and they painted it, someone's going to be in trouble...

Are you saying it would not pass design review if the design did not include paint? In other words, paint is required?

[Urbanized]

No I'm saying paint would usually be denied if proposed for a brick building with no previous paint.

[Urbanized]

Here is some light reading on the topic that explains why painting a previously unpainted brick exterior is strongly discouraged, both in general and especially for HP projects: Brick Structures - Oh What Damage We Do Inflict

In a nutshell, it creates a longterm maintenance issue where one previously did not exist, and more importantly traps moisture, which can cause extreme damage to brick, such as spalling. Painting unpainted brick leads to massive unintended consequences in the future, and is very difficult and expensive (and treacherous) to undo at a later date.

[SoonerDave]

Here is some light reading on the topic that explains why painting a previously unpainted brick exterior is strongly discouraged, both in general and especially for HP projects: Brick Structures - Oh What Damage We Do Inflict

In a nutshell, it creates a longterm maintenance issue where one previously did not exist, and more importantly traps moisture, which can cause extreme damage to brick, such as spalling. Painting unpainted brick leads to massive unintended consequences in the future, and is very difficult and expensive (and treacherous) to undo at a later date.

This!!

I've *never* understood painting brick, even aesthetically.

As a matter of detail, when you trap the moisture into the brick, and the moisture freezes, it expands, and causes the brick to shatter or crumble. Depending on how severe the damage, you may end up having to tear out the brick and replace it. Not a good idea.

Some will treat brick with a glazing/priming compound, but even at that, it's not a good idea, as that typically just prepares the surface to receive paint.

It's just not a good idea. Plum.

[catch22]

No I'm saying paint would usually be denied if proposed for a brick building with no previous paint.

Thanks. I must have misread your post.

Thanks for the link, I'll read it this weekend.

[OkiePoke]

Got some bad news for you guys.

[AP]

Gd

[catch22]

So will they be fined? It seems we've had several instances recently where owners/developers have not built in accordance with their approved designs. I think it's time fines are issued to make the point that this is no longer the Wild West. We have review boards for a reason and they need to be taken seriously.

[sooner88]

https://www.okc.gov/planning/hp/dist...s/Downtown.pdf

Here's the link to the boundaries. Certainly looks like this falls within that.

[CS_Mike]

The building is north of Park Pl., so this appears to fall within Downtown Transitional District Limited -1 as opposed to the Downtown Business District. Are the regulations for DTD-1 more relaxed than for DBD?

[CS_Mike]

I've only been able to find two items that came before the DDRC for this building, neither of which talk about painting the exterior.

https://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.a...fileid=2412117
https://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.a...fileid=2893734

Here's the hideous sign discussed in the second document:
https://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.a...fileid=2893735

[Teo9969]

Was this brick painted in the past? It looks like it based on the side of the building where the brick is unpainted and red.

[sooner88]

The building is north of Park Pl., so this appears to fall within Downtown Transitional District Limited -1 as opposed to the Downtown Business District. Are the regulations for DTD-1 more relaxed than for DBD?

You're right, I didn't think that alley was an actual street until I looked closer.... Not sure the difference in the regulations between the two areas.

[BoulderSooner]

There is a revision to the certificate of approval from the ddrd. Nov 2014 (nov 17). (3rd google link if you search "1116 N. Robinson site:OKC.gov)

It changes the metal awning to fabric and allowes a brick column installed

However in the attachment scope of work of the revised ca it lists #6 "paint the entire building".

It was clearly listed in the approved revised ca application. But not listed on the revised ca. So I'm not sure what the cities stance would be

[catch22]

Interesting, thanks for the research. ^

[Urbanized]

Was this brick painted in the past? It looks like it based on the side of the building where the brick is unpainted and red.

No. The primary facade used a more expensive blonde brick, while the secondary and tertiary facades used a less expensive red brick. This was very common in older construction, as the primary facade faces the street and the others usually faced alleyways or had other buildings placed up against them. A modern equivalent of this would be where commercial construction has a more ornate primary facade and the other three walls were tilt-up concrete or some other less expensive material.

Anyway, it's a bummer and should not have been allowed. This is the type of thing that can cause long-term degradation of the building, jeopardize economic viability of the structure for future owners and inhibit future renovation. Painting over unpainted brick (and other similar renovations) during previous generations of ownership has caused long-term problems, condition backsliding and even demolitions of buildings decades after first application. It's rarely advisable.

[2Lanez]

Wow. This took a sharp turn in the wrong direction. The proposed signage in CS_Mike's post #35 is atrocious.

[sooner88]

Wow. This took a sharp turn in the wrong direction. The proposed signage in CS_Mike's post #35 is atrocious.

I thought the proposal was going to remove that old billboard when I first opened it....

[2Lanez]

I thought the proposal was going to remove that old billboard when I first opened it....

Bigger, cheaper sign if you don't.

Packard's, Garage, Frontline can't be happy about that.

[catch22]

Gd

I'll send you an industrial grade pressure washer from work if you'll go out at night and operate it.

[turnpup]

Seeing the picture above makes me so sad. It sure doesn't look like anything was wrong with that blonde brick.

[sooner88]

Bigger, cheaper sign if you don't.

Packard's, Garage, Frontline can't be happy about that.

Really tacky. You would hope that the food he's serving there would be enough advertising for his original restaurant... not a giant billboard right next to your new place.

[Teo9969]

The dude doesn't need advertising for his original restaurant. Getting in there is harder than getting into any club in this city.

[bchris02]

Is that atrocious sign a certain thing? How did that get past review?

[Pete]

The sign is still in review.