University of Oklahoma SAE Fraternity Closed After Racist Video

[Swake]

In all honesty the flag symbolizes many things, just as the U.S. flag does, or ANY flag for that matter.
The U.S. flag, or as you put, "the established lawful government" of the U.S.'s flag, may be a symbol of empire and conquest, or death from above in many Middle Eastern Countries.
It's also seen as a symbol of freedom and promise to other countries.

No, the confederate flag today is a symbol of racism and a fondness for a horrible part of US history when we enslaved millions of people based on color. MOST people perceive the flag this way. It is a truthful perception based in history and in the fact that the flag is the most common symbol used by almost every hate group in this country. If you want try to ignore the fact that the most common current use, history and symbolism of the flag is rooted in racism and fly it anyway for any other claimed reason, you are most likely a racist as well and probably a liar about why you fly it.

[jccouger]

No, the confederate flag today is a symbol of racism and a fondness for a horrible part of US history when we enslaved millions of people based on color. MOST people perceive the flag this way. It is a truthful perception based in history and in the fact that the flag is the most common symbol used by almost every hate group in this country. If you want try to ignore the fact that the most common current use, history and symbolism of the flag is rooted in racism and fly it anyway for any other claimed reason, you are most likely a racist as well and probably a liar about why you fly it.

Bingo. The confederate flag is a symbol of racism no matter what "facts" you want to use.

[PhiAlpha]

The damage this has done is almost unrepairable. Every member of that frat should be kicked out of OU, I don't care if they were on that bus or not. Every single one of them knew about that chant & never did anything about stopping it. Every single one needs to be out of there, and that is the only thing that can help repair OU's image.

Absolutely not true and a major overreaction. It was one bus full of freshmen out of 5-10 total buses, even if some of them did want to do something about it, they weren't there to have a say. If they took issue with it in the past, and these guys did it on a separate bus anyway, how would this be their fault? I know a few good guys that are still in the house that absolutely had absolutely nothing to do with this and were as pissed as everyone else. There are 150 active members in that fraternity, some of which don't even live in the house anymore. There are always a variety of beliefs held when there are that many people involved. As I mentioned earlier, that has taken a turn lately but it doesn't mean there are not several people in the fraternity that aren't just as pissed about this as you are. You don't just haul off and ruin 150 peoples' academic careers when many of them likely don't agree with what happened here and had nothing to do with it. There is also apparently an African American student that is an SAE right now ironically, should he be kicked out out of OU because of something some stupid freshmen did?

No doubt that the house should be shut down and academic action should be taken against the ones directly involved (F those guys for causing all of this), but don't let emotion override rationality.

[TU 'cane]

No, the confederate flag today is a symbol of racism and a fondness for a horrible part of US history when we enslaved millions of people based on color. MOST people perceive the flag this way. It is a truthful perception based in history and in the fact that the flag is the most common symbol used by almost every hate group in this country. If you want try to ignore the fact that the most common current use, history and symbolism of the flag is rooted in racism and fly it anyway for any other claimed reason, you are most likely a racist as well and probably a liar about why you fly it.

Bingo. The confederate flag is a symbol of racism no matter what "facts" you want to use.

That's fine, folks. We're not going to win each other over if people are so engrained in what they believe, true or false, opinion based or not. We'll leave it at that. I just don't think people should be attacking a flag as a few are as if it's the cornerstone of the actual issue.

There are areas where all of us agree, however: the perps are idiots (to put it as nicely as I think we can). Justice is being served, and a strong message needs to be sent that we will not tolerate these actions (which Boren is so far doing a good job of). People don't think beyond the current "fun" they're having at the time and the repercussions they have on not only their institution, but their state as a whole as well.
Lastly, this is embarrassing and hopefully the messages are sent and we can move forward.

[okatty]

Absolutely not true and a major overreaction. It was one bus full of freshmen out of 5-10 total buses, even if some of them did want to do something about it, they weren't there to have a say. If they took issue with it in the past, and these guys did it on a separate bus anyway, how would this be their fault? I know a few good guys that are still in the house that absolutely had absolutely nothing to do with this and were as pissed as everyone else. There are 150 active members in that fraternity, some of which don't even live in the house anymore. There are always a variety of beliefs held when there are that many people involved. As I mentioned earlier, that has taken a turn lately but it doesn't mean there are not several people in the fraternity that aren't as pissed about this as you are. You don't just haul of and ruin 150 people's academic careers when many of them likely don't agree with what happened here and had nothing to do with it. There is also apparently an African American student that is an SAE right now ironically, should he be kicked out out of OU because of something some stupid freshmen did?

I agree with you. Easy to overreact and punish people who were not involved. Guilt by association is a slipperly slope. I think that is what Boren was saying today - they will investigate it and determine what is appropriate. OU is lucky to have David Boren at the helm. Bad day for him, OU and all of Okla. But expelling a bunch of kids with a broad brush stroke is not the answer.

[jn1780]

Absolutely not true and a major overreaction. It was one bus full of freshmen out of 5-10 total buses, even if some of them did want to do something about it, they weren't there to have a say. If they took issue with it in the past, and these guys did it on a separate bus anyway, how would this be their fault? I know a few good guys that are still in the house that absolutely had absolutely nothing to do with this and were as pissed as everyone else. There are 150 active members in that fraternity, some of which don't even live in the house anymore. There are always a variety of beliefs held when there are that many people involved. As I mentioned earlier, that has taken a turn lately but it doesn't mean there are not several people in the fraternity that aren't as pissed about this as you are. You don't just haul of and ruin 150 people's academic careers when many of them likely don't agree with what happened here and had nothing to do with it. There is also apparently an African American student that is an SAE right now ironically, should he be kicked out out of OU because of something some stupid freshmen did?

No doubt that the house should be shut down and academic action should be taken against the ones directly involved (F those guys for causing all of this), but don't let emotion override rationality.

I would agree. All Oklahoman's would have been kicked out of the U.S. dozens of times if all the dumb people in this state represented everyone. lol

Its not like the fraternity bylaws condone this behavior.

[jccouger]

Absolutely not true and a major overreaction. It was one bus full of freshmen out of 5-10 total buses, even if some of them did want to do something about it, they weren't there to have a say. If they took issue with it in the past, and these guys did it on a separate bus anyway, how would this be their fault? I know a few good guys that are still in the house that absolutely had absolutely nothing to do with this and were as pissed as everyone else. There are 150 active members in that fraternity, some of which don't even live in the house anymore. There are always a variety of beliefs held when there are that many people involved. As I mentioned earlier, that has taken a turn lately but it doesn't mean there are not several people in the fraternity that aren't as pissed about this as you are. You don't just haul off and ruin 150 people's academic careers when many of them likely don't agree with what happened here and had nothing to do with it. There is also apparently an African American student that is an SAE right now ironically, should he be kicked out out of OU because of something some stupid freshmen did?

No doubt that the house should be shut down and academic action should be taken against the ones directly involved (F those guys for causing all of this), but don't let emotion override rationality.

You think those freshmen came up with this chant on their own? They are taught these chants by the upper class men, this chant has probably been passed down for decades. Hell they probably had to MEMORIZE this chant in order to pass pledge ship.

The only reason the upper class men are pissed is because they aren't supposed to do these racist chants in public.

[jccouger]

And I know legally OU can't punish people that weren't on that bus and participating in this one instance, but if I had my way they'd all be gone for fostering this attitude for what was probably decades. Who knows what kind of racist rituals they took part in over the years, go back and read the link I posted from a SAE member. This is a racist organization. We might as well have a fraternity called Kappa Kappa Kappa.

[PhiAlpha]

You think those freshmen came up with this chant on their own? They are taught these chants by the upper class men, this chant has probably been passed down for decades. Hell they probably had to MEMORIZE this chant in order to pass pledge ship.

The only reason the upper class men are pissed is because they aren't supposed to do these racist chants in public.

If you would quit being stupid and read my last ten posts you would realize that that is not the case. I was a member there for 5 years and graduated in 2010...this is not something that has been passed down at OU for decades. If It was, it somehow missed my dad's time there in the 70s and my time there up until 2010. Someone either brought this in from another SAE or other fraternity chapter over the last 3 years. And don't tell me why anyone is pissed about this, you are ignorant to the facts.

Cut the bs and do not freaking tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about when I was actually there. You don't have a damn clue.

[PhiAlpha]

And I know legally OU can't punish people that weren't on that bus and participating in this one instance, but if I had my way they'd all be gone for fostering this attitude for what was probably decades. Who knows what kind of racist rituals they took part in over the years, go back and read the link I posted from a SAE member. This is a racist organization. We might as well have a fraternity called Kappa Kappa Kappa.

Well good thing you aren't in charge.

I am also an SAE alum and while I can't speak for OSU, I completely disagree with his assessment of the fraternity as a whole being racist. I also know for a fact, that we never had any racist chants or songs when I was in the house at OU.

[jccouger]

If you would quit being stupid and read my last ten posts you would realize that that is not the case. I was a member there for 5 years and graduated in 2010...this is not something that has been passed down at OU for decades. If It was, it somehow missed my dad's time there in the 70s and my time there up until 2010. Someone either brought this in from another SAE or other fraternity chapter over the last 3 years. And don't tell me why anyone is pissed about this, you are ignorant to the facts.

Cut the bs and do not freaking tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about when I was actually there. You don't have a damn clue.

Oh well than, I guess you aren't biased at all.

[Pete]

Let's please calm down.

I know this is a high-charged issue but we should be to discuss this without getting personal.

[PhiAlpha]

Oh well than, I guess you aren't biased at all.

And as someone that graduated 5 years ago, if I knew that this was a long standing tradition...what motivation would I have to come here and lie about it?

[jccouger]

And as someone that graduated 5 years ago, if I knew that this was a long standing tradition...what motivation would I have to come here and lie about it?

Uh, because it was your life for 5 years & you probably used it as experience & connections to land your job?

If there was anybody that would lie about it, it would be a former or current member. I shouldn't even have to explain that.

I'll admit I'm totally just pulling stuff from my ass that this is a tradition that has been passed down for decades. I obviously have no proof of that, but do you honestly think just a few nitwits put this song together that night & started singing it all in unison? It has obviously been rehearsed & practiced & ingrained in their heads enough that they can remember every single word despite being plastered drunk. Every member that lives in that house & is active in that fraternity should be booted from OU & I stand by that statement 100%. The damage that house has done to MY school & MY state can not be fixed at this point & they all need to pay.

[Pete]

They took the Greek letters down from the house today; you can see the faint outline above the door.

[PhiAlpha]

Uh, because it was your life for 5 years & you probably used it as experience & connections to land your job?

If there was anybody that would lie about it, it would be a former or current member. I shouldn't even have to explain that.

I'll admit I'm totally just pulling stuff from my ass that this is a tradition that has been passed down for decades. I obviously have no proof of that, but do you honestly think just a few nitwits put this song together that night & started singing it all in unison? It has obviously been rehearsed & practiced & ingrained in their heads enough that they can remember every single word despite being plastered drunk. Every member that lives in that house & is active in that fraternity should be booted from OU & I stand by that statement 100%. The damage that house has done to MY school & MY state can not be fixed at this point & they all need to pay.

So you're calling me a liar?

Well again, I'm glad you aren't in a position of power and that those who are have much more common sense than you.

[AP]

Uh, because it was your life for 5 years & you probably used it as experience & connections to land your job?

If there was anybody that would lie about it, it would be a former or current member. I shouldn't even have to explain that.

I'll admit I'm totally just pulling stuff from my ass that this is a tradition that has been passed down for decades. I obviously have no proof of that, but do you honestly think just a few nitwits put this song together that night & started singing it all in unison? It has obviously been rehearsed & practiced & ingrained in their heads enough that they can remember every single word despite being plastered drunk. Every member that lives in that house & is active in that fraternity should be booted from OU & I stand by that statement 100%. The damage that house has done to MY school & MY state can not be fixed at this point & they all need to pay.

I think the point he's making is that he's anonymous on this forum so what point would he have in lying and trying to save face...

[TU 'cane]

Uh, because it was your life for 5 years & you probably used it as experience & connections to land your job?

If there was anybody that would lie about it, it would be a former or current member. I shouldn't even have to explain that.

I'll admit I'm totally just pulling stuff from my ass that this is a tradition that has been passed down for decades. I obviously have no proof of that, but do you honestly think just a few nitwits put this song together that night & started singing it all in unison? It has obviously been rehearsed & practiced & ingrained in their heads enough that they can remember every single word despite being plastered drunk. Every member that lives in that house & is active in that fraternity should be booted from OU & I stand by that statement 100%. The damage that house has done to MY school & MY state can not be fixed at this point & they all need to pay.

First bold, come on now. I have no horse in this race, but you can teach a group of people a chant or song in a matter of hours, days, or even a week or two. We're stretching a little bit here, and as already alluded to, emotions are outweighing logic...

Here, take a read at this. Saving face? Possibly. Genuine? Possibly. Who truly knows?

..."In an Indiegogo campaign, Blake Burkhart is asking people to donate money to help house cook Howard, who has reportedly been working at the house for more than a decade.

“Those of you who lived in the house, undoubtedly came to love Howard and his infectious smile (if not his chili dogs). He was always there to chat with you and more importantly, to take care of Mom B,” Burkhart wrote."

After OU SAE chapter disbanded, fraternity alumni raise money for house cook | News OK

Second bold, I 100% agree in regard to the damage it's done. I take this personally for a couple reasons, but also because of the perception it does to OUR state.

[jccouger]

So you're calling me a liar?

Well again, I'm glad you aren't in a position of power and that those who are have much more common sense than you.

Uh no, you asked me WHY you would lie about it & I gave you reasons WHY you would lie about it. You aren't going to bait me in to looking like the fool.

The only reason Boren didn't kick all of them out is because he knows there would be legal repercussions. I'm smart enough to know that too, it doesn't mean I can't post what I feel should happen to them.

Have fun carrying around the burden of being attached to such an amazing organization though. There will never be another SAE!

[PhiAlpha]

Uh no, you asked me WHY you would lie about it & I gave you reasons WHY you would lie about it. You aren't going to bait me in to looking like the fool.

The only reason Boren didn't kick all of them out is because he knows there would be legal repercussions. I'm smart enough to know that too, it doesn't mean I can't post what I feel should happen to them.

Have fun carrying around the burden of being attached to such an amazing organization though. There will never be another SAE!

Screw off.

[Uncle Slayton]

I remember 1981...well, scratch that. I don't remember it because I never drew a sober breath at college that year. We used Animal House as a baseline model for our exploits, right down to the toga party (we got "the gator" banned on campus).

Fraternities are essentially licenses to be stupid. That doesn't excuse it, but neither should these boneheads lives be ruined by an abysmally stupid act probably done in a drunken haze.

I think there will be mass expulsions for the bus occupants, but as mortified as I was at seeing the predictable generalizations about my state made by commenters at news sites worldwide, all I could think of when Boren was giving that presser was this:

[Swake]

If you would quit being stupid and read my last ten posts you would realize that that is not the case. I was a member there for 5 years and graduated in 2010...this is not something that has been passed down at OU for decades. If It was, it somehow missed my dad's time there in the 70s and my time there up until 2010. Someone either brought this in from another SAE or other fraternity chapter over the last 3 years. And don't tell me why anyone is pissed about this, you are ignorant to the facts.

Cut the bs and do not freaking tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about when I was actually there. You don't have a damn clue.

How many current members of the frat are black?

How many where black members belonged when you were there?

[Uncle Slayton]

Was the tune in the video "If You're Happy and You Know It?"

I think so...

Why does this keep going through my head?

"oh there'll never be a Sooner SAE, There'll never be a Sooner SAE!

Boren dropped the hammer, now the frat is in the slammer,

Oh there'll never be a Sooner SAE.

[Dustin]

DBO LAID DOWN THE HAMMER! DAMN!

So proud of President Boren for making a strong and quick ruling on the issue.

While I don't think everyone on the bus should be expelled, I do think the two gentlemen standing up and yelling the chant should. Totally shocking and disgusting behavior.

BTW, according to twitter and some people on reddit, this is a song that is known all throughout the south and is sung by many frats.

[td25er]

Why do we keep falling for the SAME crap time and time again? The media is just waiting for the next white-on-black story to keep racism going strong. Nobody gives two f*cks about any other form of racism. Only white-on-black.

The only time you see any BIG stories against a white person is a terrorist act.

The problem , aside from the media, isn't a white-on-black racism issue. It's an EVERYBODY (not literally everybody, just talking generalities) is racist issue. Take a person of ANY color/religion/"look" (clothing style etc)/whatever and if they don't know somebody, they are naturally going to trust the ones who "look" like them more than people who don't. It just happens.

People in general just suck. We live in a hateful world.