Widgets Magazine
Page 9 of 9 FirstFirst ... 456789
Results 201 to 219 of 219

Thread: TIF Districts

  1. #201

    Default Re: Tower Theater

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Things like this should spur a discussion on TIF approval being granted at the ballot box. The sums of money being spent are to great without direct voter approval.
    Or stipulations attached to the money. As far as the private events go, sure, that income is great for the operator and all, but small, private events are absolutely not the reason they received public dollars.

  2. Default Re: Tower Theater

    Quote Originally Posted by stjohn View Post
    ...small, private events are absolutely not the reason they received public dollars.
    You're 100% right. They received public dollars because the numbers didn't work for the original design they pitched - which would not pass Bricktown Urban Design - and the City suggested TIF as a way to close the gap and make it a building that met the City's design ordinance. TIF funding had absolutely zero to do with how many or what type of shows would be booked into the venue.

  3. #203

    Default Re: Tower Theater

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    You're 100% right. They received public dollars because the numbers didn't work for the original design they pitched - which would not pass Bricktown Urban Design - and the City suggested TIF as a way to close the gap and make it a building that met the City's design ordinance. TIF funding had absolutely zero to do with how many or what type of shows would be booked into the venue.
    Source? That's not my understanding of TIF at all. If that's right, that's a horrible use of TIF, which creates all kinds of opportunities for this kind of abuse.

  4. #204

    Default Re: Tower Theater

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    You're 100% right. They received public dollars because the numbers didn't work for the original design they pitched - which would not pass Bricktown Urban Design - and the City suggested TIF as a way to close the gap and make it a building that met the City's design ordinance. TIF funding had absolutely zero to do with how many or what type of shows would be booked into the venue.
    And IMO set a very, very dangerous precedent.

    The idea that the City is now going to pay developers to build something correctly and that fits within our guidelines and desires is just a bad idea.

    All anyone has to do is come up with a cheapo design then claim they can't afford to do it right. No matter that there is nearly an identical facility almost directly next door that never needed a dime of public money.

    We just need to stop with this altogether except for very rare circumstances like First National or the Skrivin. We keep jacking with the free market to the point it has become completely bastardized.

    BTW, pretty amazing that pretty much every single developer comes to the City with a 5-9% gap, which happens to be the exact range of virtually every TIF award. Simple truth is they know the game, know how to write their pro formas and know what they can get. And if that wasn't obvious enough, that has been told to me by more than one developer.

  5. #205

    Default Re: Tower Theater

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    This is NOT to make a case for or against TIF in concept, but...

    There is a reason why our form of government is not direct democracy but rather a representative democracy.
    Well acquainted with the way a democracy versus a representative democracy works. However when Cathy O'Conner is pitching the TIF behind closed doors and it is "approved" before a formal vote, a meaningful discussion with citizen input then is just a moot point. That is not the way a representative democracy works. That is closer to the way a plutocracy operates. An intiative petition and a succesful vote could very easily take TIF approval out of the hands of those who are circumventing open meetings and put it in voters hands.

  6. Default Re: Tower Theater

    Quote Originally Posted by stjohn View Post
    Source? That's not my understanding of TIF at all. If that's right, that's a horrible use of TIF, which creates all kinds of opportunities for this kind of abuse.
    http://newsok.com/article/5371940

  7. Default Re: Tower Theater

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Well acquainted with the way a democracy versus a representative democracy works. However when Cathy O'Conner is pitching the TIF behind closed doors and it is "approved" before a formal vote, a meaningful discussion with citizen input then is just a moot point. That is not the way a representative democracy works. That is closer to the way a plutocracy operates. An intiative petition and a succesful vote could very easily take TIF approval out of the hands of those who are circumventing open meetings and put it in voters hands.
    City officials negotiate deals with third party companies all of the time before it is brought to City Council for formal approval. I listed in my post a few of several thousands of negotiations that happen on your behalf every year, assuming you are an OKC resident. Every Tuesday you are likely to see a contract approved that was previously negotiated by City staff or on the City's behalf by one of their partners with City staff input, before being put to Council. It is the way cities all over America work, by the way.

    Again, if you want TIF (or other incentives) negotiated in the open, you are welcome to advocate this change with your elected officials. There are of course many reasons why that would be a terrible idea and put the City at an extreme disadvantage in all sorts of negotiations.

    It is totally fair to question whether or not TIF is good policy for a city. That is open to debate. Also it is fair to look at refining how TIF is used, and such analysis should always be in the minds of public officials too. But there is nothing about the way OKC uses TIF that is especially unusual or violates any laws, ethics or standards as accepted in municipal governance nationally.

  8. Default Re: Tower Theater

    By the way this discussion is seriously off-topic.

  9. Default Re: Tower Theater

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    By the way this discussion is seriously off-topic.
    Was about to make the same point.

  10. #210

    Default Re: Tower Theater

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    Yeah, that's a horrible use of TIF.

  11. #211

    Default Re: Tower Theater

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    By the way this discussion is seriously off-topic.
    This is the debate equivalent of starting a personal argument then saying "I don't want to talk about it".

    I'll move some of this to the TIF thread because that Newsok article you posted is almost championing that TIF be used in this way (a horrible idea IMO) and the writer uses a definition of TIF that is completely and totally incorrect.

    I restate: TIF (like most dedicated economic development dollars) is money that goes looking for a problem.

  12. Default Re: Tower Theater

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    This is the debate equivalent of starting a personal argument then saying "I don't want to talk about it".
    ...
    Haha, well, I'll cop to participating but will point out that Jersey Boss started it!

  13. #213

    Default Re: TIF Districts

    Petition drive seeks to overturn Stillwater TIF District:

    http://www.stwnewspress.com/news/upd...e7c29cb57.html

  14. #214

    Default Re: TIF Districts

    Looks like Norman is ending the huge TIF for University North Park.

    Anticipates the city will getting an extra $4.8 million per year as a result.

    https://journalrecord.com/2019/03/27...o-end-unp-tif/

  15. #215

    Default Re: TIF Districts

    Maybe this belongs in the other thread, but which TIF is the "Thunder Alley" TIF request targeting? There are just so many TIF districts to keep track of.

  16. #216

    Default Re: TIF Districts

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Looks like Norman is ending the huge TIF for University North Park.

    Anticipates the city will getting an extra $4.8 million per year as a result.

    https://journalrecord.com/2019/03/27...o-end-unp-tif/
    My belief from living here is that the majority of citizens wanted TIF to just go away. UNP did not turn out the way the early supporters portrayed it using this funding mechanism.

  17. #217

    Default Re: TIF Districts

    Pete, it feels like the Downtown TIF hasn't spit out any money towards any projects for a while. Shouldn't it be in its greatest period of earnings right now towards the end of its lifesepan?

  18. #218

    Default Re: TIF Districts

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorTaco View Post
    Pete, it feels like the Downtown TIF hasn't spit out any money towards any projects for a while. Shouldn't it be in its greatest period of earnings right now towards the end of its lifesepan?
    A lot was moved around and taken for the Omni and related garage.

  19. #219

    Default Re: TIF Districts

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    A lot was moved around and taken for the Omni and related garage.
    ah thanks.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Tif
    By ljbab728 in forum General Civic Issues
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: 12-03-2014, 10:55 AM
  2. Analysis of TIF financing downtown
    By betts in forum General Real Estate Topics
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 01-09-2011, 04:31 PM
  3. Devon TIF District Approved
    By betts in forum General Civic Issues
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: 05-15-2009, 08:25 AM
  4. TIF for Bricktown Canal extension??
    By metro in forum General Civic Issues
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 09-18-2008, 01:16 PM
  5. Oklahoma River becoming TIF district?
    By Patrick in forum General Civic Issues
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 03-18-2005, 04:39 AM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO