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  1. #1

    Default Any new economic developments?

    I check Texas newspapers frequently, and almost daily, there are new companies bring 100's and 1,000's of jobs into Texas cities. When will we ever hear about stuff like that in Oklahoma? Maybe not that large (multiple hundreds seems doable), but you get the point. Does this state try to get those large tech and finance jobs, or solely manufacturing or distribution jobs?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    When Oklahoma has a quality education system from K through University - especially in the tech/computer sciences. When Oklahoma has no income tax. When Oklahoma has an international airport. When Oklahoma's legislature stops trying to force people to live a conservative lifestyle and pass legislation that is simply laughable. When Oklahoma becomes a place people want to move. Probably a few more things people can add.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Texas has 5X the population of Oklahoma; it is 2nd only to California. Dallas and Houston are now the 4th and 5th largest metro areas in the country, respectively.

    The Boeing coup was a huge one for the OKC area, with thousands of jobs, even more related jobs, and all of them high-paying.

    But it's true, until we properly fund education in this state, we will never attract many high-paying jobs from elsewhere.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Aside from that, the Oklahoma City area has seen a flux of aerospace companies expanding here & bringing hundreds of jobs in the last few years. Valkyrie Systems Aerospace & Kratos comes to mind as of late both set to add over 300 jobs. These companies are high paying & will grow over time. Aerospace companies are our best bet right now for high paying jobs in the metro, yea they build large tract industrial spaces & not shiny new towers, but they are good jobs.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Speaking of ED developments... It has begun: https://freepressokc.com/hamon-chall...DyWC_wNy6fR-28

  6. #6

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
    Speaking of ED developments... It has begun: https://freepressokc.com/hamon-chall...DyWC_wNy6fR-28
    That's very interesting. Hamon, Cooper and Nice all voted against this relatively small incentive. In the past, only Shadid would have spoken or voted against something like this.

    Battle lines are being drawn. And if they can get one more progressive member on the council in the next round of elections, almost everything could change, especially the flood of tax incentives.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    That's very interesting. Hamon, Cooper and Nice all voted against this relatively small incentive. In the past, only Shadid would have spoken or voted against something like this.

    Battle lines are being drawn. And if they can get one more progressive member on the council in the next round of elections, almost everything could change, especially the flood of tax incentives.
    Which would almost cripple this city's ability to lure good jobs here. It would have to be at the state level.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Yeah.. I'm very anti-incentives idealistically, but in reality I think we should be careful before we all but abandon them. I hope that their progressivism doesn't end up being a barrier to actual progress. I'm interested to see how this plays out.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    I would like hear more than “we could use that for the homeless”, it’s not like other cities and states have snapped their fingers allocated money and fixed it. California spends enormous amounts of money and has gotten no where.

    If they wanna start a fight against incentives fine, but they need to argue more than 6 inches deep.

    The incentives brought the jobs here. That’s a fact. And you can’t say, they would have come here anyway. That’s a hypothetical, you can’t prove that as fact

  10. #10

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ross MacLochness View Post
    Yeah.. I'm very anti-incentives idealistically, but in reality I think we should be careful before we all but abandon them. I hope that their progressivism doesn't end up being a barrier to actual progress. I'm interested to see how this plays out.
    Most incentives, I am with you. Until the human capital here in OKC increases, we need these incentives to offer to companies. We need to hold them accountable, yes. But if they live up to their end of the bargain, it helps OKC in the long run.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Oh and $250,000 is still $250,000. Companies that have a tendency to view it as a “drop in the bucket” have a tendency to end up broke. The smart companies always watch the pennies, it’s probably why they asked for it in the first place. They want those drops.

    An unbelievably naive, flippant, and arrogant statement.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    The incentives brought the jobs here. That’s a fact. And you can’t say, they would have come here anyway. That’s a hypothetical, you can’t prove that as fact
    You have this completely backward IMO.

    Tons of companies relocate here or expand without incentives.

    When you are spending billions of taxpayer money, the burden of proof falls on you and there is no way they can prove someone wouldn't have done X without the incentives.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    You have this completely backward IMO.

    Tons of companies relocate here or expand without incentives.

    When you are spending billions of taxpayer money, the burden of proof falls on you and there is no way they can prove someone wouldn't have done X without the incentives.
    They would have gone to one of the cities we were competing against that offered incentives.

    But that amazon building in NYC is really freaking sweeeeeeet, oh wait. No it isn’t.

    There’s a mountain of examples of cities not playing ball, and companies/orgs/ a certain NBA team/ two pro teams in Oakland saying bye.

    Burden is on the anti incentive side. Not the pro side.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    They would have gone to one of the cities we were competing against that offered incentives.
    You have no way of knowing that. Can you name one example of that happening here?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    And BTW, the company at the center of this particular debate is already operating in OKC.

    The incentives are for them adding jobs.

    And in that same program, there are tons of companies like Chesapeake who were also given incentives and have since let go thousands of employees and that money was not returned.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    You have no way of knowing that. Can you name one example of that happening here?
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-cit...ves-1489675343

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/meet-th...es-11558152005

    It’s pretty common knowledge how the incentive games work.

    Okc has likely lost out on some things because they didn’t offer enough, imagine if we just quit playing altogether.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Nobody is advocating that we quit altogether.

    But many of these incentives should absolutely be challenged or even voted down.


    And I can tell you that 100% of these incentive packages have been approved once they reach city council. That is not responsible oversight.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    1. Vote too many down and that affects perception. Okc is not friendly and difficult to work with. Perception is often reality in life .

    2. Booz Allen Hamilton will just say ok cool principled stand okc, well just grow somewhere else. Plano, Colorado Springs, etc they’ll play ball. We’ll expand that office instead.

    Short of a national ban on this sort of nonsense, okc doesn’t have much of a choice.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    I wonder how many other cities vote down. DFW knows the long-term benefits outweigh a short-term cost. Companies know they offer a lot, so look there first. OKC needs to step up their game.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    1. Vote too many down and that affects perception. Okc is not friendly and difficult to work with. Perception is often reality in life .

    2. Booz Allen Hamilton will just say ok cool principled stand okc, well just grow somewhere else. Plano, Colorado Springs, etc they’ll play ball. We’ll expand that office instead.

    Short of a national ban on this sort of nonsense, okc doesn’t have much of a choice.
    We haven't voted down ANY, EVER. I guess all incentives in all forms and all amounts are always good.

    We need discretion, debate and understanding, not just a rubber stamp from city council and a populace being scared into supporting things they don't begin to understand.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    How many fall apart before they even reach that point?

    Stage center comes to mind, they were gonna ask for $110 bazillion dollars or whatever and it quickly became clear that wasn’t gonna fly.

    The ones that get killed get killed in back rooms. And there’s a reason for that. You don’t want to generate a headline that says “okc denies incentive for X company”.

    Call it whatever you want, lack of transparency, good ol boy system, but these fights are better handled privately than publicly.

    Then again I’ve always favored results > process.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    We haven't voted down ANY, EVER. I guess all incentives in all forms and all amounts are always good.

    We need discretion, debate and understanding, not just a rubber stamp from city council and a populace being scared into supporting things they don't begin to understand.
    Not all, but to lure businesses or expansions, yes.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Instead of incentives to lure out of state concerns, how about using that money to cultivate and grow existing small businesses. Many on the conservative side advocate for the small business man when it comes to voting down minimum wage increases, paid leave, etc. Use that money to incentive small business to expand. Those owners are already committed to the local economy.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    ^

    Or invest a big chunk of that money into education, which is a guaranteed economic development tool.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Any new economic developments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    Instead of incentives to lure out of state concerns, how about using that money to cultivate and grow existing small businesses. Many on the conservative side advocate for the small business man when it comes to voting down minimum wage increases, paid leave, etc. Use that money to incentive small business to expand. Those owners are already committed to the local economy.
    One reason is the relatively high fail-rate of small businesses. I would love for OKC small businesses to grow. They have the ability to apply for these incentives, but you rarely hear about it (even Pete said OKC has neved voted these down). Even with incentives, I think more than half fail in 5 years. Some, yeah. But I think investing in proven winners is a more sure thing. Especially when we have a small amount of money to work with. I am not bashing anyone, especially small businesses in OKC.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesf.../#57d875743b5f

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