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Thread: Obamacare

  1. #76

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Oh look... two posts, and we cover non sequitur, strawman, and false equivalency... amazing. Any more fallacies you want to try for?
    Oh look... you dodged more questions. Not amazing.

  2. Default Re: Obamacare

    Anybody with a shred of sense can do a web search and come up with hundreds, if not thousands of articles that say that we pay way much for healthcare and don't get as much as we should for that amount of money, and they're all pretty much true. Can't believe anybody's actually arguing this...

  3. #78

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    Anybody with a shred of sense can do a web search and come up with hundreds, if not thousands of articles that say that we pay way much for healthcare and don't get as much as we should for that amount of money, and they're all pretty much true. Can't believe anybody's actually arguing this...
    If you can't argue the facts, argue the methodology.

  4. #79

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    Oh look... you dodged more questions. Not amazing.
    Like you've answered mine? Oh no, you haven't. Just fallacies.

  5. #80

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    Anybody with a shred of sense can do a web search and come up with hundreds, if not thousands of articles that say that we pay way much for healthcare and don't get as much as we should for that amount of money, and they're all pretty much true. Can't believe anybody's actually arguing this...
    I've repeatedly stated I'm not arguing on the cost effectiveness... only quality of care. People keep conveniently ignoring that.

  6. Default Re: Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    I've repeatedly stated I'm not arguing on the cost effectiveness... only quality of care. People keep conveniently ignoring that.
    Quality ain't all that great either...

    How Does the Quality of U.S. Health Care Compare Internationally? - Robert Wood Johnson Foundation

    "What they do show is that the evidence for American superiority in quality of care (or lack thereof) is a mixed bag, with the nation doing relatively well in some areas—such as cancer care—and less well in others—such as mortality from treatable and preventable conditions.

    And while evidence base is incomplete and suffers from other limitations, it does not provide support for the oft-repeated claim that the “U.S. health care is the best in the world.” In fact, there is no hard evidence that identifies particular areas in which U.S. health care quality is truly exceptional."

  7. #82

    Default Re: Obamacare

    But I've never claimed we're the best. Just that we're comparable with other first world countries, which no one has countered. We fail in preventable and mortality, not because of quality of care, but because of obesity, mortality due to murders, and infant birth rates (which we track all live births, not ones born over a certain weight or past a certain week, like other countries).

    It goes back to a question I asked previously, and which was ignored by everyone. Money aside, if you or a love one has a serious disease, cancer, etc, where would you go for care? I can't imagine somewhere outside of the US I'd prefer to go to.

  8. Default Re: Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    But I've never claimed we're the best. Just that we're comparable with other first world countries, which no one has countered. We fail in preventable and mortality, not because of quality of care, but because of obesity, mortality due to murders, and infant birth rates (which we track all live births, not ones born over a certain weight or past a certain week, like other countries).

    It goes back to a question I asked previously, and which was ignored by everyone. Money aside, if you or a love one has a serious disease, cancer, etc, where would you go for care? I can't imagine somewhere outside of the US I'd prefer to go to.
    I'll answer it. If money were no object, It would depend on what the disease/illness was and what my research decided was the best place in the world that would give the best survivability rate. Might or might not be in the USA...

  9. Default Re: Obamacare

    MMS: Error

    Not sure how to turn off the automatic title-getting of a URL, or why it's getting an error, but it's from the New England Journal of Medicine and how catastrophic it would be if King v. Burwell invalidated the subsidies for non-state-run exchanges.

  10. #85

  11. Default Re: Obamacare


  12. #87

  13. #88

    Default Re: Obamacare

    I feel bad for this guy's condition but it's his own fault for not bothering to get health insurance. He didn't take care of his diabetes, smoked and didn't have health insurance but he blames Obama and Democrats for his problems.


    Lang, a 49-year-old resident of Fort Mill, has bleeding in his eyes and a partially detached retina caused by diabetes.“He will lose his eyesight if he doesn’t get care. He will go blind,” said Dr. Malcolm Edwards, the Lancaster ophthalmologist who examined Lang.

    Lang is a self-employed handyman who works with banks and the federal government on maintaining foreclosed properties. He has done well enough that his wife, Mary, hasn’t had to work. They live in a 3,300-square-foot home in the Legacy Park subdivision valued at more than $300,000.

    But he has never bought insurance. Instead, he says, he prided himself on paying his own medical bills.That worked while he and his wife were relatively healthy. But after 10 days of an unrelenting headache, Lang went to the emergency room on Feb. 25. He says he was told he’d suffered several mini-strokes. He ran up $9,000 in bills and exhausted his savings. Meanwhile, his vision worsened and he can’t work, he says.

    That’s when he turned to the Affordable Care Act exchange. Lang learned two things: First, 2015 enrollment had closed earlier that month. And second, because his income has dried up, he earns too little to get a federal subsidy to buy a private policy.

    Lang, a Republican, says he knew the act required him to get coverage but he chose not to do so. But he thought help would be available in an emergency. He and his wife blame President Obama and Congressional Democrats for passing a complex and flawed bill.

    “(My husband) should be at the front of the line because he doesn’t work and because he has medical issues,” Mary Lang said last week. “We call it the Not Fair Health Care Act.”

    Anyone who’s remotely familiar with insurance knows there’s no system that lets people skip payments while they’re healthy and cash in when they get sick. Public systems tax everyone. Private ones rely on the premiums of the well to cover the costs of those who are ailing.

    And Democrats might point out that the ACA was designed to cover people whose income falls below the poverty line through Medicaid. The federal government pays 100 percent of the ACA expansion to cover low-income, able-bodied adults, but 21 Republican-led states, including North and South Carolina, declined to participate.

    For now, Lang qualifies only for a South Carolina Medicaid plan that covers checkups and family planning. The aged (65 and older), blind and disabled get more extensive coverage. Lang says he hasn’t applied for Social Security disability benefits because it takes too long.

    Yep. Because your party kept insisting people who got disability were freeloaders, and created many more hoops through which to jump!

    The S.C. Department of Health and Human Services is still reviewing whether he might qualify through a vocational rehabilitation program. If so – and if he can find a surgeon who takes Medicaid – South Carolina taxpayers will share the cost with the federal government.

    Last week Lang went back to Dr. Edwards, who had previously provided injections to control the bleeding in his eyes at a discounted rate. That’s when he learned that his problem had worsened, including the detached retina.

    “He’s in a very bad situation,” Edwards said after Lang signed a privacy release. “The longer he waits, the poorer his results will be.”

    Edwards said he would provide care at no cost, but Lang now requires surgery and follow-up treatment that is beyond his expertise. His Eye & Laser Center has a network of specialists who work on a sliding scale and organizations that sometimes help with donations. But Lang requires such extensive and ongoing work that there’s no way to guarantee there won’t be significant bills, Edwards said.

    Lang says he has called charities that work with diabetes and blindness, but he doesn’t seem to fit anyone’s cause. “I’m either too young or too old,” said Lang, who has launched a GoFundMe.compage in hopes of garnering donations. He has put out fliers and called various news outlets, but as of Monday he had nothing.

    There’s a lot of talk about personal responsibility in health care reform, so it’s probably fair to note that Lang is a smoker who has, by his own account, been inconsistent in his efforts to control his diabetes. Edwards says it’s not uncommon to see patients who don’t take the treatment regimen seriously until they’re facing major problems. Bleeding in the blood vessels of the eyes often foretells similar problems with the kidneys and feet, he said.

  14. #89

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Yeah, that's his own fault.

    He always prided himself to pay his own medical bills, but he only had $9,000 in savings. He knows the law requires him to get health insurance, but he refuses to do so, knowing that now he can't be denied for a pre-existing condition. The guy has diabetes and refused to get health insurance.

    What a tard.

  15. #90

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Rather than post the whole article here is the link about Obama's home state and obamacare

    https://www.atr.org/hawaii-s-205-mil...hange-implodes

    Hawaii's $205 Million ObamaCare Exchange To Shut Down - Fox Nation

  16. #91

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Hawaii did not need the federal system as it had the most progressive system in the country already in place. If all the states had this, there would not have been a need for socialized insurance.
    LA Times
    Hawaiians live longer than their counterparts on the mainland. They die less frequently from common diseases, such as breast and colon cancers, even though these cancers occur more often here than in most other states. They also pay less for their care; the state's healthcare costs are among the lowest in the country.

    Hawaii's success owes much to the state's trailblazing health system and its long history of near-universal health insurance.

    Forty years ago, the state became the first to require employers to provide health benefits, codifying a tradition that grew out of Hawaii's agrarian past, when sugar and pineapple plantations employed doctors to care for their workers.

    That system has led to some of the highest rates of coverage and best access to medical care in the country.

    "There has always been a mentality here that if you are sick, you go to the doctor. It's just part of the culture," said Myra Williams, 64, who has lived in Hawaii for 35 years and was recently treated successfully for early-stage breast cancer.

    Nearly 99% of the patients at the cancer center at Queen's have health coverage, a level unheard of at most urban medical centers on the mainland.

    Hawaii Healthcare

    Obamacare is affecting the Hawaii healthcare system.

    Healthcare in America is a tale of two countries.

    Residents of the healthiest communities live as much as 14 years longer on average than those in unhealthy places. They are a third less likely to die from treatable illnesses such as breast cancer, childhood measles and diabetes, according to data from the Commonwealth Fund, a foundation dedicated to improving the healthcare system.

    Big variations in poverty, education and diet may explain part of this divide. In Hawaii, the large share of residents of East Asian descent, who have lower mortality rates for many diseases, may also have an impact.

    But differences in local health systems nationwide — including disparities in insurance coverage — also likely play an important role, according to an analysis of local and national healthcare data, a review of academic studies, interviews with scores of experts, and visits to communities across the country.

    Nearly everyone is covered in the nation's healthiest places, including Hawaii, Massachusetts and parts of the Upper Midwest. By contrast, fewer than 7 in 10 working-age adults have health insurance in parts of Texas, Florida and the Deep South — areas with some of the highest rates of death from preventable illnesses.

    In Texas, which has the lowest rate of insurance coverage in the nation, residents are 40% more likely to die from breast cancer than they are in Hawaii, according to federal cancer data.

    These disparities may grow even larger in coming years as the Affordable Care Act is implemented unevenly around the country. Although the law offers states the opportunity to guarantee their residents insurance, only about half the states have elected to do so.

  17. #92

    Default Re: Obamacare

    If Republicans ever succeeded in repealing Obamacare, the U.S. budget deficit would soar by as much as $353 billion over 10 years and 24 million people would lose their health insurance, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said Friday.

    About 19 million people would lose insurance next year alone, the CBO and Joint Committee on Taxation found in their report.

    Obamacare Repeal Would Raise Deficit, Cost People Insurance, Report Finds - NBC News

  18. #93

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Oklahoma knew that it wouldn't set up its own exchange; this was a plot to bring down the ACA from the get go. We need to make this work where it becomes more affordable. Get the Republicans vs. Democrats chip off our shoulders, do what's good for the people.

    As states accept the law, hopefully the cost of insurance will reach a stable point. A single-payer system much like Medicare ($110-$150 monthly range) would have been preferred with the emphasis on 'preventive care,' where people don't wait until they reach the critical stage to address what ales them. Regular physicals and general check ups would help spot concerns an individual might have in advance.

    Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) help obtain funds for more hospitals with more people insured. Pre-ACA you had far too many uninsured people shipped to the emergency rooms where basic care had to be provided; yet the hospitals were not reimbursed. Who do you think paid for that as the costs were passed on?

    Like most projects of this magnitude, the ACA isn't perfect; let's get on board to tweak the system to make it better.

  19. #94

    Default Re: Obamacare


  20. #95

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCretro View Post
    I hope the rate increase is not approved or cut way down. "saying their new customers under the Affordable Care Act turned out to be sicker than expected. " What did they expect from people that couldn't afford insurance before and were not able to get help.

  21. #96

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    I hope the rate increase is not approved or cut way down. "saying their new customers under the Affordable Care Act turned out to be sicker than expected. " What did they expect from people that couldn't afford insurance before and were not able to get help.
    I think the creators of the bill thought everyone would just sign up because everyone wants to help everyone for the greater good of society. When in fact the healthy people just opted out and paid the fines. Guess the healthy people didn't want to pay for other peoples healthcare, imagine that.

  22. #97

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCretro View Post
    I think the creators of the bill thought everyone would just sign up because everyone wants to help everyone for the greater good of society. When in fact the healthy people just opted out and paid the fines. Guess the healthy people didn't want to pay for other peoples healthcare, imagine that.
    Healthy people already were paying for other's healthcare. When hospitals treat the uninsured, they make up for it with negotiating higher rates from insurance companies. They then push that cost to the healthier, insurance having people. So you were already paying for it. It makes sense to have more people having some form of insurance.

    As for the rate increases, these are just what the insurance companies are requesting. It no way does it mean that BCBS will be able to get away with a 30% increase, especially if John Doak, Scott Pruitt, and Mary Fallin do their jobs. But Im not sure we can count on it because theyve already shown they are willing to throw poorer, less healthy people under the bus if it will harm the ACA. Obama is right when he says this:
    President Obama, on a trip to Tennessee this week, said that consumers should put pressure on state insurance regulators to scrutinize the proposed rate increases. If commissioners do their job and actively review rates, he said, "my expectation is that they'll come in significantly lower than what's being requested."

  23. #98

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Healthy people already were paying for other's healthcare. When hospitals treat the uninsured, they make up for it with negotiating higher rates from insurance companies. They then push that cost to the healthier, insurance having people. So you were already paying for it. It makes sense to have more people having some form of insurance.

    As for the rate increases, these are just what the insurance companies are requesting. It no way does it mean that BCBS will be able to get away with a 30% increase, especially if John Doak, Scott Pruitt, and Mary Fallin do their jobs. But Im not sure we can count on it because theyve already shown they are willing to throw poorer, less healthy people under the bus if it will harm the ACA. Obama is right when he says this:
    President Obama, on a trip to Tennessee this week, said that consumers should put pressure on state insurance regulators to scrutinize the proposed rate increases. If commissioners do their job and actively review rates, he said, "my expectation is that they'll come in significantly lower than what's being requested."
    why is Scott Pruit's or Fallin's job to pressure the insurance companies on the federal govt plan? shouldn't Obama and the people behind obamacare pressure the companies. Seems just like another way to place the blame on someone else but himself.

    Obama's comments basically say " The rate increase isn't my fault or obamacare's fault its your state commissioners fault."

  24. #99

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCretro View Post
    why is Scott Pruit's or Fallin's job to pressure the insurance companies on the federal govt plan? shouldn't Obama and the people behind obamacare pressure the companies. Seems just like another way to place the blame on someone else but himself.

    Obama's comments basically say " The rate increase isn't my fault or obamacare's fault its your state commissioners fault."
    For the same reason that you can't purchase out of state insurance. As a trade off of having anti-trust exemption afforded, the insurance companies are regulated on the state level by state regulators. It is the job of John Doak to protect Oklahoma consumers.

  25. #100

    Default Re: Obamacare

    Quote Originally Posted by Jersey Boss View Post
    For the same reason that you can't purchase out of state insurance. As a trade off of having anti-trust exemption afforded, the insurance companies are regulated on the state level by state regulators. It is the job of John Doak to protect Oklahoma consumers.
    Guess I am confused... Obama claimed that OBAMACARE would cut costs and rates, but never said in his victory speeches it would be the job of the commissioners to cut costs and rate, he acted as if obamcare would do it automatically

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