Development that will make Dallas and KC Jealous?

[hoya]

Steve didn't specifically say it was dead (that I saw), but did indicate a lot of things were "on hold" depending on oil prices.

[rtz]

If it's over; can we atleast know what it was?

[Plutonic Panda]

I think he said complications in the oil market. Take my word with a grain of salt on this one, because he didn't specify exactly. He just said a huge east Bricktown development is in limbo or something like that. I'll try and find the quote later.

[Motley]

I thought he said the issues for it were more complicated than the oil market.

[Motley]

Q: Is the project to make KC jealous hurting or more complicated with the drop in oil prices or are there other more serious factors?

A: More complicated.

[dcsooner]

Will some one please educate me on how oil prices alone affect all these aspects of Oklahoma's economy. Seems NOTHING gets done without oil. Is anyone concerned that every time the price of a barrel of oil rises or drops Oklahoma ebbs and flows. Why don't our leaders not only buffet up the energy sector but work more vigorously to diversity the states economy?

[Motley]

Lots of people are concerned with a one industry economy. There is a pretty good second industry in OKC with aeronautics and the military, but more diversity is absolutely needed. The best thing for OKC would be a large non-oil entity enter the market. Steve indicated in the last chat that rumors are that a large employer was looking at OKC but was put off by the anti-gay rights stance of the state legislators.

[soondoc]

Lots of people are concerned with a one industry economy. There is a pretty good second industry in OKC with aeronautics and the military, but more diversity is absolutely needed. The best thing for OKC would be a large non-oil entity enter the market. Steve indicated in the last chat that rumors are that a large employer was looking at OKC but was put off by the anti-gay rights stance of the state legislators.

That alone should send many people to get off their tails and write your legislative reps. They should write the governor herself and have her back off some. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying people shouldn't stick to their beliefs, but they have gone way overboard. In fact down right hypocritical in many ways. They act all righteous when it comes to this but have the most crooked liquor laws in the nation. These laws pad the pockets of the liquor stores and violates other businesses that can't compete with that because they aren't allowed to. Also, 3.2 beer, seriously? What is the reasoning behind that? It is about more sales and corruption why the people down at the Capitol turn their backs once they have been bought and paid for. I hate hypocrisy and these type of things have turned who knows how many businesses away from this great state. They remind me of the Pharisee's who all thought they were so righteous yet couldn't see their own faults. That is the best description of the leaders in this state.

[OkiePoke]

Lots of people are concerned with a one industry economy. There is a pretty good second industry in OKC with aeronautics and the military, but more diversity is absolutely needed. The best thing for OKC would be a large non-oil entity enter the market. Steve indicated in the last chat that rumors are that a large employer was looking at OKC but was put off by the anti-gay rights stance of the state legislators.

Do you have a link or article so I could be more informed about OKC losing out on jobs becaue of these stances? I want to be more active in the political side. Thanks.

[bchris02]

Steve didn't say explicitly that this deal is dead, but he did say two things that imply that it might be.

1) Lower oil prices has made the deal more complicated
2) There will be no further development in Lower Bricktown until oil prices recover.

It was long rumored this development was going to be in Lower Bricktown so based on that, its possible that the deal is dead or at least on hold until oil prices recover. Unfortunately, OKC is, or is at least perceived to be a one industry town.

There has been no official statement regarding a company opting not to relocate to OKC due to the anti-gay stances of state lawmakers, but its what Steve's sources have reported to him as he stated in his chat. It really wouldn't surprise me at all if that is the case considering how dogmatic the state government is on gay issues and other issues of diversity and the fact there is virtually no progressive movement in the state government to counter the right-wing extremism.

If you were the owner of a large company with a progressive culture and a large number of LGBT employees, would you want to move your company and employees to a city where somebody like Sally Kern can not only get elected, but say the things she does and get re-elected? To top it all off, this is a state where numerous other state legislators agree with her and few, if any, are brave enough to rebuke her because it just so happens her views are shared by a large number of Oklahomans. I hate it, it makes me angry, but its understandable why a progressive west-coast company would pass on OKC. That's why moderate and progressive people in this state need to get involved. It may always be a conservative state, but hopefully one day there is more reason and extremists like Sally Kern become a rare breed.

[Motley]

The reference was to the January 30 OKC downtown chat run by NewsOK at around 9:40am. Not sure if there has been any actual articles written on the subject.

[bchris02]

On another note, if this ends up happening I think the following should be done.

1. Billboards on I-35 going northbound every few miles all the way from DFW saying in different ways "Prepare to be jealous."
2. A special exit off I-40 for the "Jealousy development"
3. Guards at the entrance of the development requiring all people leaving to take a survey. The first question will be where are you from. If the person answers anything but Dallas or Kansas City, they are free to leave. If they answer Dallas or Kansas City, they get asked if they are jealous. If they say yes, they get asked how jealous on a scale of 1 to 10. If they answer anything but "Yes" and "10", they are immediately escorted to a bus where they are taken to an undisclosed re-education camp to be educated as to why they should be jealous of this development.

[warreng88]

On another note, if this ends up happening I think the following should be done.

1. Billboards on I-35 going northbound every few miles all the way from DFW saying in different ways "Prepare to be jealous."
2. A special exit off I-40 for the "Jealousy development"
3. Guards at the entrance of the development requiring all people leaving to take a survey. The first question will be where are you from. If the person answers anything but Dallas or Kansas City, they are free to leave. If they answer Dallas or Kansas City, they get asked if they are jealous. If they say yes, they get asked how jealous on a scale of 1 to 10. If they answer anything but "Yes" and "10", they are immediately escorted to a bus where they are taken to an undisclosed re-education camp to be educated as to why they should be jealous of this development.

And all snacks at this place will be jelly based, just to drive the point home.

[gopokes88]

Lots of people are concerned with a one industry economy. There is a pretty good second industry in OKC with aeronautics and the military, but more diversity is absolutely needed. The best thing for OKC would be a large non-oil entity enter the market. Steve indicated in the last chat that rumors are that a large employer was looking at OKC but was put off by the anti-gay rights stance of the state legislators.

For the record that's one idiot legislator who is term limited and will be out after next years session. 2nd, when the Supreme Court rules in June that everyone has the right to get married it will be a dead issue. I don't support gay marriage but the writing is on the wall. We are going to lose and it's time to move on.

[OkiePoke]

For the record that's one idiot legislator who is term limited and will be out after next years session. 2nd, when the Supreme Court rules in June that everyone has the right to get married it will be a dead issue. I don't support gay marriage but the writing is on the wall. We are going to lose and it's time to move on.

I think Steve was referring to around 2008/2009. Different climate back then regarding these issues.

[gopokes88]

I think Steve was referring to around 2008/2009. Different climate back then regarding these issues.

Ah, for the most part the legislature has calmed down on social issues and having the government try and fix everyone. Even the hoodie was nothing more then a stunt for attention. It went absolutely no where.

[jdcf]

The hoodie story made news all over the country.

[gopokes88]

The hoodie story made news all over the country.

In the past that bill might have actually made it to a vote.

[bchris02]

For the record that's one idiot legislator who is term limited and will be out after next years session. 2nd, when the Supreme Court rules in June that everyone has the right to get married it will be a dead issue. I don't support gay marriage but the writing is on the wall. We are going to lose and it's time to move on.

If it was simply one crazy lawmaker, why aren't other more moderate lawmakers standing up to denounce her?

I also doubt the supreme court decision is the end of it. Mike Huckabee has vowed to make this issue a priority in his campaign in 2016 regardless of how the supreme court rules.

[gopokes88]

If it was simply one crazy lawmaker, why aren't other more moderate lawmakers standing up to denounce her?

I also doubt the supreme court decision is the end of it. Mike Huckabee has vowed to make this issue a priority in his campaign in 2016 regardless of how the supreme court rules.

Good for him. Watch his campaign go down in a flame of glory. He won't carry a single purple or blue republican state in the primary (NY, Penn, Michigan, etc) those states have a lot of delegates. Just the hard deep red and even then he'll have stiff competition.

Once the Supreme Court rules on it, that is the end of it. Unless you think a Constitutional amendment can pass?

Scott Walker or Jeb Bush is going to be the nominee.

It's very rare to publicly see intraparty fighting. It's all behind the scenes. Why do you think Kern withdraw the bill? Someone with some power told her to cut the crap or face the consequences. The reason people like Frank Underwood (and there is people like FU in both parties, minus the murders) are so effective is because you don't know they exist, and its all internally handled.

[AP]

^Can we take that discussion to the Politics forum and get back to talking about the original topic?

[shawnw]

And all snacks at this place will be jelly based, just to drive the point home.

Are "jelly-based" and "gelatinous" the same thing?

[TU 'cane]

Keep in mind that it's only Steve's opinion that this potential development he's rumored about would make Dallas/K.C. jealous.
Now, I think we can trust Steve to assume it's a fairly significant development. And I think it's safe to say that it's probably something Dallas and/or K.C. doesn't have (why else compare them or even include them in the speculation?).

That really narrows potential developments down, because, quite frankly, DFW has nearly anything/everything the common person can think of. And Kansas City, well, they have more to offer than OKC or Tulsa, but what would make them jealous?

[d-usa]

Hello everyone. Been visiting the forum section here off and on and after reading this thread I decided to register to make a wild guess and jump into the deep end with both feet. I am not connected with anything or anyone, just a random guy living in north Oklahoma City who doesn't have any insider knowledge and who is probably just wish-listing and dreaming with this guess. But for what it's worth, here it goes:

My guess is that the development will be the soccer stadium for the Energy FC.

Now hear me out and let me make my case. We know that Prodigal LLC has talked last year about wanting to build a soccer stadium to call their home in the next few years. From that news article:

“A new stadium could be located in close proximity to Chesapeake Energy Arena and the Bricktown area with easy access from Highway 40,” one question in the survey states. “ As well, the stadium would include many of the modern amenities that are common with new stadiums including premium seating areas, updated concession areas.”

So with that let me jump into some of the hints and rumors in this thread:

From Steve's chat today:

Justin - 11:40 a.m. Any ideas what will be done with the 600 block of California (parking lot in front of The Chevy)? Paying $46/sft for the land they have to be underwriting a big development there, I'd imagine.

Steve Lackmeyer - 11:40 a.m. Something ambitious.

I still have a feeling this is where the jealousy project will happen.

That lot would be a perfect fit for a USL level stadium. I know it is a bit on the small side, but we wouldn't be looking at a MLS level stadium at this point (even though I know that joining the MLS is the ultimate goal for them). Prodigal LLC said they were aiming for a 7,000 seat stadium and that they realize that they would most likely have to build a separate 20,000 stadium at some point down the line if the MLS thing happens.

So would a 7,000 seat stadium fit on the lot? Well, I played around with Google Maps and looked at the lot and a couple of stadiums in the NASL and USL leagues. This isn't scientific engineering math and even though I captured each picture at the same scale (according to Google Maps) I'm sure that there are some scaling mistakes in there. But it serves as a good estimate.

Here is Atlanta Silverbacks Park, a 5,000 seat stadium:



As you can see it easily fits into the lot, has plenty of room to expand the sidelines out and has room to add seats on the endline to expand it out to 7,000 seats. It's a fairly bare bones stadium, but there is plenty of room on the lot to add extras. An elevated terrace on one endline overlooking the field for concessions or a VIP area for heavy spenders to drink is always a good plan.

Let's go a little bit fancier and go with Toyota Field, San Antonio's soccer stadium, which comes in at 8,296 seats:



Now wouldn't a nice brick wall wrapped all the way around look great next to the ballpark? Of course you noticed that the ballpark kind-of spills onto California Ave, so there is that minor problem. Maybe that's just a scaling error and it would actually fit as is, but this stadium also has 1,296 more seats than the 7,000 goal set by Funk. So there is the option to remove seats to make it fit, or to move the suites from the sidelines to the endlines (which might be a bit unconventional for soccer, but it's an option). Toyota Field also has one entire endline that is not developed, which would give Prodigal LLC the option to remove more than 1,000+ seats from the sidelines and add more seating on that sideline to make up for it. Another option for that endline might be to take the approach of Toyota Park in Frisco and use that endline to install a permanent stage. I know that the ballpark does concerts, but now you would have another option for outdoor entertainment and with a permanent stage instead of having to setup and tear it down. 7,000 seats + general admission on the field would make for a good crowd.

So that addresses the "something in Bricktown" and "something on the California Ave Lot" part of the hints. Now that we know that Prodigal LLC could theoretically fit a soccer specific stadium on the lot, we can address the other hint:

I really wonder what the scale is. The infamous quote is below from January 10, 2014.

Steve Lackmeyer 11:25 a.m. I do see more entertainment venues being added to the mix. There is possibly one development that could really change the game and even be something that would make Dallas and Kansas City jealous. How's that for a teaser?

I wonder if most people guessing have been guessing to big or too small.

The entertainment aspect could be covered by having an additional option for enjoying sports, and it would complement the Thunder by having a season that doesn't overlap that much (April through September), although it does overlap with the Dodgers. If they manage to include a permanent stage that would also bring another outdoor concert option to Bricktown.

Now about making Dallas and Kansas City jealous? That might be the bigger stretch of my guess, but again please hear me out. I know that Dallas and Kansas City have their own MLS team. They are big time and right now our Energy FC are just some minor league team, so how would our 7,000 stadium make them jealous?

Well, we would have a smaller stadium but that smaller stadium would be in Bricktown. We would have the Peake, the Ballpark, and the stadium all in downtown Oklahoma City. Why might that make Dallas and Kansas City jealous? Look at where their stadiums are:





Which also brings me to the next hint:

Does Houston have a Velodrome? At one point Steve said the project would make Dallas jealous but not Houston. Whatever it is it is something Houston has but Dallas doesn't.

What does Houston have that Dallas doesn't?



They have a soccer stadium downtown. So they wouldn't be jealous of our downtown stadium like Dallas.

Connecting a soccer stadium to the last hint may be the biggest leap, but I'll tackle that as well:

Q: Is the project to make KC jealous hurting or more complicated with the drop in oil prices or are there other more serious factors?

A: More complicated.

My guess is that the sponsor for the park was/is one of the energy companies. I would imagine that there is another player that wants to muscle their way in and get some of that downtown exposure that Chesapeake and Devon are enjoying right now. But with the drop in oil prices it might be hard to justify spending the millions required to put your name on a stadium while people are getting laid off. So that could make things more complicated because now you have to figure out if you want a new sponsor, do you wait for prices to rise again, do you try to get the city to help out, etc etc etc.

Like I said at the beginning, this is a giant leap of a guess and I will totally admit that I would be in love with having a soccer stadium in Bricktown. So take from this what you will, I'm just a guy who knows nothing!

[shawnw]

I'm inclined to say "nah". But Steve did say it was a large entertainment related venue I _thought_, which would give credence to your suggestion. Nice idea. As good as anything else that has been speculated. But the parking. Good golly the parking on game nights where we have Thunder, Dodgers, and Energy at once, oy! Doesn't bother ME any as I live downtown and would just walk. But man Bricktown would be messed up. Although... by the time the whole thing could even happen (funding, plan, approval, construction, etc), Phase 1 of the streetcar might be online, so maybe folks are parking and riding elsewhere downtown... hmmm... interesting at least.