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Thread: Voter ID Laws

  1. Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by stick47 View Post
    For the rude and reading impaired, see post #162
    For the question answering impaired that still didn't answer the question, it seems you're the one playing kid games. I didn't play those games with PP and sure not going to play them with you. If you want to have an adult conversation let us know.

  2. #177

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    The point is, the question was a moot point since I'd stated my suggestion for a way to pay the expense of acquiring an ID. Liberals here have played this game on other threads. Often times the question is a 'gotcha' question. IE: discover an obscure law, etc then ask the other side if they would support something related to that, then out comes the ridicule "you'd be breaking the law to do that!" That's the Okc Talk Lib Gotcha game in a nutshell. Your history of trolling & rope-a-dope clearly indicates that you're the one lacking in adult conversation.

  3. #178

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    that's enough, people... let's stick to topic. -M

  4. #179

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Ok, on the topic, I'd say yes, I'd 100% support taxpayer funded for documentation/IDs for voters. It'd weed out the illegal voters, ineligible voters, and people voting under false names. So let me ask a counter question. In that circumstance, would those who are opposing voter IDs be OK with it? And if not, then why?

  5. Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Ok, on the topic, I'd say yes, I'd 100% support taxpayer funded for documentation/IDs for voters. It'd weed out the illegal voters, ineligible voters, and people voting under false names. So let me ask a counter question. In that circumstance, would those who are opposing voter IDs be OK with it? And if not, then why?
    I agree with you on the taxpayer funding and I'm not against having voter 's have ID cards, see post #2 on this thread. I keep hearing massive voter fraud and I just wanted to see the numbers and nobody was able to provide anything other that I think so's or it might be happenings.

  6. #181

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Actually, I posted plenty of examples of evidence that it's 100% for sure happening, you just don't think it's happening at the levels that you care about. Which is your opinion. But voter fraud is happening and it's happening quite a bit. The largest segment is ineligible voters. Considering we had a presidential election decided not too long about decided by just a few hundred votes, it wouldn't take that much to change the course of the country with illegal voters.

  7. #182

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Ok, on the topic, I'd say yes, I'd 100% support taxpayer funded for documentation/IDs for voters. It'd weed out the illegal voters, ineligible voters, and people voting under false names. So let me ask a counter question. In that circumstance, would those who are opposing voter IDs be OK with it? And if not, then why?
    Totally be fine with it. Just like Oklahoma's voter ID law, which is very reasonable. If you dont have a fed, state, or tribe issued picture ID, you can an cast provisional ballot, sign an affidavit, and then have the county election board provide them with a voter ID card. Not really any undue burden.

    Texas' voter ID law is a completely different animal. Only like 7 forms of ID are accepted, You cant cast a provisional ballot. You have to spend your own time and money to get one of these forms of ID, even though it may not be necessary otherwise.

    Oklahoma = reasonable
    Texas = unconstitutional (IMO), unreasonable, costly, discriminatory.

  8. #183

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Ok, on the topic, I'd say yes, I'd 100% support taxpayer funded for documentation/IDs for voters. It'd weed out the illegal voters, ineligible voters, and people voting under false names. So let me ask a counter question. In that circumstance, would those who are opposing voter IDs be OK with it? And if not, then why?
    At first glance, that sounds good, at least in mitigating the negative effects of voter ID laws. It's hard to totally say until we know what this hypothetical program looks like and whether it can prevent Voter ID laws from affecting the democratic rights of eligible voters. Like I said before, Voter ID laws didn't sound all that bad to me in the first place, until I learned what the real effect of them is.

    Personally, I'd rather see resources committed to addressing voting irregularities that we know happen at a much greater rate than the types of fraud that voter ID laws claim to address.

  9. #184

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Totally be fine with it. Just like Oklahoma's voter ID law, which is very reasonable. If you dont have a fed, state, or tribe issued picture ID, you can an cast provisional ballot, sign an affidavit, and then have the county election board provide them with a voter ID card. Not really any undue burden.

    Texas' voter ID law is a completely different animal. Only like 7 forms of ID are accepted, You cant cast a provisional ballot. You have to spend your own time and money to get one of these forms of ID, even though it may not be necessary otherwise.

    Oklahoma = reasonable
    Texas = unconstitutional (IMO), unreasonable, costly, discriminatory.
    I actually agree with this (and have said so). I'd go further than Oklahoma's and say anything that is listed on the I-9 as a "proof of identity" document should be allowed.

  10. #185

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Ok, on the topic, I'd say yes, I'd 100% support taxpayer funded for documentation/IDs for voters. It'd weed out the illegal voters, ineligible voters, and people voting under false names. So let me ask a counter question. In that circumstance, would those who are opposing voter IDs be OK with it? And if not, then why?
    Just for voting... no, I think that would be a waste of money. Fraud is so minuscule its laughable. This is a purely political idea.

    If however, the ID were used for multiple things, it might be worth it. SSN, Fed ID, Voter ID, etc.

    But we've been down that path before. I leave it to you to guess which folks opposed that idea.

  11. Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Actually, I posted plenty of examples of evidence that it's 100% for sure happening, you just don't think it's happening at the levels that you care about. Which is your opinion. But voter fraud is happening and it's happening quite a bit. The largest segment is ineligible voters. Considering we had a presidential election decided not too long about decided by just a few hundred votes, it wouldn't take that much to change the course of the country with illegal voters.
    I've never denied that voter fraud happens but I've questioned if it's happening at the degree some say it is. Once again do you have anything that it's happening on this grand scale or if it's decided any elections.

  12. #187

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    On what scale, some random arbitrary number that you're the only decider of? You put out some nebulous definition, and then dismiss any evidence that doesn't conform to your undefined definition. How many incidents does there have to be to count. If .001% of guns purchased being used for crimes justifies reasonable gun laws, then what is the similar bar for reasonable ID laws?

  13. Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    On what scale, some random arbitrary number that you're the only decider of? You put out some nebulous definition, and then dismiss any evidence that doesn't conform to your undefined definition. How many incidents does there have to be to count. If .001% of guns purchased being used for crimes justifies reasonable gun laws, then what is the similar bar for reasonable ID laws?
    Since you have still not provided any proof I'll take that as a no, you don't have any and instead go off in some random rant. There's no need for me to continue this conversation with you since you've shown you don't have any proof of what your saying is happening.

  14. #189

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    Since you have still not provided any proof I'll take that as a no, you don't have any and instead go off in some random rant. There's no need for me to continue this conversation with you since you've shown you don't have any proof of what your saying is happening.
    ^^^^
    WHat proof do you have that there is no fraud? You can't point to the few cases in court dockets as those are the only ones they've gone after. It's inpossible to to tell the depth of the ocean without a measuring device and it's impossible to determine the extent of voter fraud when IDs are not checked.

  15. #190

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    Since you have still not provided any proof I'll take that as a no, you don't have any and instead go off in some random rant. There's no need for me to continue this conversation with you since you've shown you don't have any proof of what your saying is happening.
    Actually, I did provide proof over and over and over again, and you admitted it two posts up. You just said it wasn't enough, and I simply asked you to define how much is enough. Since you define asking that ask a rant, I'll assume you don't want to answer.

  16. Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by stick47 View Post
    ^^^^
    WHat proof do you have that there is no fraud? You can't point to the few cases in court dockets as those are the only ones they've gone after. It's inpossible to to tell the depth of the ocean without a measuring device and it's impossible to determine the extent of voter fraud when IDs are not checked.
    Please show me where I said there was no fraud?

  17. #192

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    My bad. Too many irons in the fire here. Please ignore the first line of that post.

    So what proof do you have that the amount of fraud is not worth requiring voter IDs?

  18. Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by stick47 View Post
    My bad. Too many irons in the fire here. Please ignore the first line of that post.

    So what proof do you have that the amount of fraud is not worth requiring voter IDs?

    No problem.

    The burden of proof is on the ones wanting tougher voting laws, they are the ones saying voter fraud is out of control.

  19. #194

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Non-Citizens Are Voting | National Review Online

    Look at the part about Al franken's seat. voter fraud can play a huge huge huge part in the laws made.

    My question is why are liberals in so much favor of voter fraud.

    I guess its just me but if I were running I would want to win on the up and up, not by illegal means and voter fraud. But I guess some on this board don't care how their side wins, as long as their side wins.

  20. Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCretro View Post
    Non-Citizens Are Voting | National Review Online

    Look at the part about Al franken's seat. voter fraud can play a huge huge huge part in the laws made.

    My question is why are liberals in so much favor of voter fraud.

    I guess its just me but if I were running I would want to win on the up and up, not by illegal means and voter fraud. But I guess some on this board don't care how their side wins, as long as their side wins.
    That article was based on data from the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, that study was later questioned for it's accuracy.

    Methodological challenges affect study of non-citizens? voting - The Washington Post

    That link also used information from James O’Keefe, who's documentory of ACORN was found to be heavily edited to his viewpoint and he was ordered to pay $100,000 to the ACORN workers he smeared.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...e-media-yawns/

    http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7708

  21. #196

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by OKCretro View Post
    My question is why are liberals in so much favor of voter fraud.
    Really? REALLY??

    I'm working hard to hold back. This is just so much freaking trolling. This is like asking why conservatives are in so much favor of gun violence. One does not follow the other. Its absolutely asinine.

    Is it so hard to have a little perspective? If anything, for the sake of constructive dialogue?

  22. #197

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    IE: Really, Really - If you don't want to be accused of letting the flies in, don't stand there holding the door open.

  23. Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Ginsburg Was Right: Texas' Extreme Voter ID Law Is Stopping People From Voting

    Stories about people actually denied in early voting because of the new laws, no theories, real stories.

  24. #199

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by Cid View Post
    Just for voting... no, I think that would be a waste of money. Fraud is so minuscule its laughable. This is a purely political idea.

    If however, the ID were used for multiple things, it might be worth it. SSN, Fed ID, Voter ID, etc.

    But we've been down that path before. I leave it to you to guess which folks opposed that idea.
    Just use the state ID system and make it free. It's probably not a huge marginal expense, and it would potentially alleviate a lot of the costs associated with litigating voter Id laws in court. Of course, that might also eliminate it as campaign rhetoric, so we can't actually solve the problem.

  25. #200

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Why is it that Democrats (seem to) defend the opportunities for Voter Fraud and Republicans (seem to) attempt to maintain a "System" in which Voter Fraud is the only other viable Alternative?

    I apologize, in advance, for remembering how We are . . .

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