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Thread: Voter ID Laws

  1. #76

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    It's sort of like gun statistics... poorly tracked and collected, so it's hard to get a clear picture. I don't know that anyone has really good numbers or statistics on this, especially since you can't track the crimes that you don't catch or know about.
    So we then create laws that burden a segment of the population because we don't have any statistics to prove something is happening?

  2. #77

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    If there is enough belief (and for many people there is) that something is happening, then yeah. Because the only way to get statistics is to enact a law like this, and then implement. I posted dozens of example which included dead person voting and voting under other people's names.

    You already have to register to vote, which takes some initiative on the part of the person wanting to vote. Bringing your ID with you, or getting a free ID card, or carrying your voter registration card isn't an undue burden. If we can require an ID for something that is a clearly defined constitution right like purchasing a handgun, then I don't see a problem with it here.

  3. #78

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Many people believe there are aliens out in Roswell or the CIA killed Kennedy but we don't make laws that burden a segment of the population because of that. Now if there were facts and statics rather than a bunch of I think so's that would be different. There are voters that have voted for years without an ID and now you want them to get one. The right to vote is a Constitutional right, If you don't need an ID for one why do you need one for another right?

  4. #79

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    So you support eliminated the ID requirement for purchasing guns?

  5. #80

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    So you support eliminated the ID requirement for purchasing guns?
    So voting is more dangerous than guns?

  6. #81

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    So you support eliminated the ID requirement for purchasing guns?
    There's clear evidence and statics that shows massive gun violence, is there statics that shows massive voter fraud?

  7. #82

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by OkieBerto View Post
    So voting is more dangerous than guns?
    Nope, but it's a valid question based on this quote from Kelroy...

    "The right to vote is a Constitutional right, If you don't need an ID for one why do you need one for another right?"

    If that's his reasoning, then...

  8. #83

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    There's clear evidence and statics that shows massive gun violence, is there statics that shows massive voter fraud?
    Actually, the percentage of guns that are used for crimes is extremely small... as small if not smaller as you claim the instances of voter fraud are.

  9. #84

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Actually, the percentage of guns that are used for crimes is extremely small... as small if not smaller as you claim the instances of voter fraud are.
    Really? link? also a l;ink for instances of voter fraud please.

  10. #85

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Here's the thing about Voter ID Laws . . .
    I think that a Voter should have an ID that indicates an awareness of candidates, the political process and a general sense of a positive framework of reality.

    On the other hand, when you only have a slate of paid-for clowns up for election why would that matter?

    It's sort of like the "elections" in Soviet Russia, back in the day.
    Except, instead of what they (the Russians) had back then we have now with a lot more money being spent on campaigns.

    Vote Early and Vote Often
    (or don't vote at all . . . it's a free country and your choice)

    I apologize for channeling Mort Sahl, Henny Youngman and Rodney Dangerfield
    (mea culpa . . . mea maxima culpa)

  11. #86

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by kelroy55 View Post
    Really? link? also a l;ink for instances of voter fraud please.
    I posted two loooooooong posts on the previous page with hundreds of examples. And you know it.

  12. #87

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    and a majority of those were people selling their votes. How about some stats instead of a list of 20-30 people out of several million.

    Plus that didn't cover the percentage of guns that are used for crimes is extremely small.

  13. #88

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Gun Violence | National Institute of Justice

    414,562 gun crime incidents in 2011...

    There are by various estimates anywhere from 270 million to 310 million guns in the United States.

    Using the lower number, 270 million...

    .15 of 1% of guns are used for gun violence. So 99%+ of guns purchased are not used for violence or crimes.

    That being said, I'm all in favor of gun ID laws and background checks. I support safe legal gun use, but believe gun ownership is a constitutional right. I don't feel that presenting my ID and getting a quick background check is an undue burden on me exercising my constitutional right.

    I'm sure folks with lower incomes can claim that the cost of the CC permit application or the cost of an ID adds a financial limitation on their ability to purchase and carry a firearm, which is discriminatory to their constitutional rights.

  14. Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Well at least there is another BS wedge issue able to fill the void now that Gay Marriage is going by the wayside.

    The entire election system in this country needs help. Besides the typical ballot access issues for 3rd parties and initiatives, the entire election system should be revamped.

    My idea that isn't without faults, but it is a start...
    • Six months before an election, each person who would be an eligible voter who hasn't registered or hasn't voted in the last 2 years would get a notification card in the mail offering to register them and provide precinct information.
    • Three months before everyone in that batch would receive a new voter ID card and a reminder of the upcoming election. The voter ID card would also include a PIN and an easy to scan bar code.
    • Two to Three weeks before election day, everyone would receive their own custom ballot. The ballot would have a unique code embedded on it. They can then file the ballot by going to the board of elections or polling station. At either of those locations, their voter ID would be checked and the system - thanks to the ballot code - would close out allowing anymore votes for that person. The other option would be to allow them to submit the ballots online. To do so they would need to verify the PIN that was on their voter ID card. Could even go a step further and allow people to submit the ballots through an app where they take a picture of the ballot, their voter ID card, and also scan the barcode on the ballot for submission.
    • Election day, essentially a deadline to submit their ballot, they would go directly to the polling station where the ballot would be submitted after scanning their ID card. If a person misplaced or doesn't have their ballot, the card will be scanned and a new ballot would be generated for them to fill out (either touch screen device or on paper).


    One of the benefits of the system also would be to allow people to vote at locations that might be outside their precinct. Since each ballot would be unique to that individual, it wouldn't matter where it would be filed as long as it was within their city. Could possibly even go further than that, but this post is long enough. LOL

  15. #90

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    ^^ I'd support a system like that. I'm also all for standardizing elections nationally.

  16. Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Didn't y'all read the article I posted earlier about the real reasons some conservatives/Republicans are giving for wanting voter ID laws? THEY WANT TO KEEP NON-REPUBLICANS FROM VOTING!

    Phyllis Schlafly: “The reduction in the number of days allowed for early voting is particularly important because early voting plays a major role in Obama’s ground game. The Democrats carried most states that allow many days of early voting, and Obama’s national field director admitted, shortly before last year’s election, that ‘early voting is giving us a solid lead in the battleground states that will decide this election.’

    “The Obama technocrats have developed an efficient system of identifying prospective Obama voters and then nagging them (some might say harassing them) until they actually vote. It may take several days to accomplish this, so early voting is an essential component of the Democrats’ get-out-the-vote campaign.”

    'Pennsylvania House Majority Leader Mike Turzai told a gathering of Republicans that their voter identification law would “allow Governor Romney to win the state of Pennsylvania.”'

    'After the election, former Florida GOP chairman Jim Greer told The Palm Beach Post that the explicit goal of the state’s voter-ID law was Democratic suppression. “The Republican Party, the strategists, the consultants, they firmly believe that early voting is bad for Republican Party candidates,” Greer told the Post. “It’s done for one reason and one reason only ... ‘We’ve got to cut down on early voting because early voting is not good for us,’”'

    All this and more is in here:

    Republicans Admit Voter ID Laws Are Aimed at Democratic Voters - The Daily Beast

  17. #92

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    And I can post dozens of articles that claim the only reason certain democrats are opposing ID laws are because they want to encourage illegal and duplicative voting...

    That's why I tend to ignore when anyone claims they "KNOW" the motives of others.

  18. Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    And I can post dozens of articles that claim the only reason certain democrats are opposing ID laws are because they want to encourage illegal and duplicative voting...

    That's why I tend to ignore when anyone claims they "KNOW" the motives of others.
    Are you ignoring the direct quote from Jim Greer above? Pretty cut and dried, if you ask me, no false claims about "KNOW"ing something, the dude said it.

  19. #94

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    Are you ignoring the direct quote from Jim Greer above? Pretty cut and dried, if you ask me, no false claims about "KNOW"ing something, the dude said it.
    His quote about early voting? What does that have to do with voter IDs? And even if he is talking about voter ID laws... this quote was after he was fired by the party, under indictment for embezzlement, and was in the middle of suing the GOP. Hardly the best source.

  20. #95

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by MadMonk View Post
    The justification for the law is knowing how human nature and politics works. We all know politics can be dirty business. There are groups (both conservative and liberal) who will say and/or do nearly anything to help their candidate win an election.
    It's funny because that's the same reason I can't support the movement, because I understand it's just politics.

    When this issue became popular again, I'm pretty sure my first thought was "wait, you don't need an ID to vote? That doesn't seem right" and was pretty indifferent as to whether it became required. When you hear someone say it is to address a massive voter fraud problem, then of course it makes sense. However, as I learned more it became clear that it was just politics as usual. Using my "gut" and intuition I was with you. Educating myself on the details and motivations changed my mind.

    You don't have to wait until the horses have bolted before closing the barn doors.
    Yes, but if closing the gate would have a more negative effect on the population of horses than leaving it open (like say more would be locked out than would have gotten out), I'm going to leave it open.

  21. Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    His quote about early voting? What does that have to do with voter IDs? And even if he is talking about voter ID laws... this quote was after he was fired by the party, under indictment for embezzlement, and was in the middle of suing the GOP. Hardly the best source.
    I haven't found the source of the original full quote, but he was talking about the purpose of the voter ID laws. You (and tons of others) are being willfully ignorant if you think the purpose of the voter ID laws is to decrease voter fraud and not to suppress non-Republican voting.

  22. #97

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    you (and tons of others) are being willfully ignorant if you think the purpose of opposing the voter id laws is not to increase voter fraud.
    fify.

  23. #98

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    "Informed Voters Good . . . UnInformed Voters Bad . . .
    Have Personal Axe to Grind?"
    (c/o Tarzan)
    (roll the dice and see what emerges . . . or evolves. =)

    One thing I DO know is that, although I'm a registered "Republican" (with "Independent" tendencies) I would vote for the Roman Catholic, Female, Restaurteuress, Democrat currently running for Lt. Governor in a heartbeat.

    Can I get a ID? =)

  24. #99

    Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Scott Adams wrote about a line of reasoning which could possible be applied to informed voters. And it's sort of scary.

    Take the 10 smartest, most educated, most informed people in the world, and have them vote on an issue. You'll get one of two results.

    1) They agree on the issue, which would signify that intelligence, education, and information are 100% relevant to the voting process, but that democracy counteracts it.
    2) They don't all agree, which would signify that intelligence, education, and information are irrelevant to the voting process.

  25. Default Re: Voter ID Laws

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Gun Violence | National Institute of Justice

    414,562 gun crime incidents in 2011...

    There are by various estimates anywhere from 270 million to 310 million guns in the United States.

    Using the lower number, 270 million...

    .15 of 1% of guns are used for gun violence. So 99%+ of guns purchased are not used for violence or crimes.

    That being said, I'm all in favor of gun ID laws and background checks. I support safe legal gun use, but believe gun ownership is a constitutional right. I don't feel that presenting my ID and getting a quick background check is an undue burden on me exercising my constitutional right.

    I'm sure folks with lower incomes can claim that the cost of the CC permit application or the cost of an ID adds a financial limitation on their ability to purchase and carry a firearm, which is discriminatory to their constitutional rights.
    Yes 467K victims of crime compared to the number of guns in the US can be considered a small percentage. Where are your numbers that show the amount of voter fraud?

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