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  1. Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    Man, seeing it in an image like this is just sooooooooo depressing.


  2. Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    Embarrassing and infuriating.
    The truth is never embarrassed by honest inquiry.

  3. #528

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    I heard while I was back home that at Spring Creek ES in Deer Creek ISD only two of six kindergarten teachers returned for this year, and of those six the majority quit at mid year.

    Such a shame, haven't thought twice about our move but hate it for so many of our close friends and still love what the city has going.

  4. #529
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    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    It's what Oklahoma voters want. So live with it. If they want to keep it, they just need to remain loyal this year to Republican incumbents and keep a Republican as governor.

  5. #530

  6. #531
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    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    So unless you know your legislators have been doing a good job of supporting education vote them out. If not, each vote for them will only further encourage them, if they win. Voting in favor of tax cuts in the past was not a sign of support.

  7. #532

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/09/us/te...rnd/index.html

    Perhaps this is in another thread as it is a month old, but I have seen these billboards advertising for teachers to leave Oklahoma and move to Ft. Worth for much higher salaries. One can be seen from 235 near the Capitol. We can and need to do better.

  8. #533

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    Didnt look good for legislators who voted against the teacher pay raise. Two of them lost their primary and 7 more are faced with runoffs. Many of these are also the hardcore social conservatives. Would be a shame to see all 7 lose their runoff...

    http://oklahomawatch.org/2018/06/27/...ays-primaries/

  9. #534

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    Iím tired from the and normally I would always advocate for reading an entire article before passing judgment, but I couldnít even get through the first paragraph of this story where it was suggested to abolish public education.

    https://kfor.com/2018/11/26/canadian...s-for-funding/

  10. #535

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    I would have to hope that a large majority of citizens, even in Oklahoma, don't think that the abolition of ad valorem taxes is a realistic notion. We're not renters to the government, we pay fees for services, including educating the public because an educated public is a public benefit.

  11. #536

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Iím tired from the and normally I would always advocate for reading an entire article before passing judgment, but I couldnít even get through the first paragraph of this story where it was suggested to abolish public education.

    https://kfor.com/2018/11/26/canadian...s-for-funding/
    The Republican solution, especially in deeply religious and conservative states like Oklahoma, always involves taking away resources from public education and funneling it to private schools or homeschool families. As long as that is the solution, it will continue to be a race to the bottom. Why? Because it increases the disparity between the haves and have nots.

  12. #537

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    ^^^ it’s also telling how most states the operate in this manner generally have the worst education and the states that are opposite have the best. Weird. But surely Oklahoma is unique and has good excuses, I’m sure.

  13. #538

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    It's what Oklahoma voters want. So live with it. If they want to keep it, they just need to remain loyal this year to Republican incumbents and keep a Republican as governor.
    Agree

  14. #539

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    The Republican solution, especially in deeply religious and conservative states like Oklahoma, always involves taking away resources from public education and funneling it to private schools or homeschool families. As long as that is the solution, it will continue to be a race to the bottom. Why? Because it increases the disparity between the haves and have nots.
    I'm sure it helps improve outcomes for those fortunate enough to get those vouchers and what not to schools that are more than likely much better than where they are. Just saying. There are two sides to every coin.

    There aren't many examples of urban public schools that are models of proficiency.

  15. #540

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    In my opinion a return to more local control of school districts (less federal influence) and parental involvement would improve the educational system.

  16. #541

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    I'm sure it helps improve outcomes for those fortunate enough to get those vouchers and what not to schools that are more than likely much better than where they are. Just saying. There are two sides to every coin.

    There aren't many examples of urban public schools that are models of proficiency.
    It definitely is a complicated issue and vouchers would benefit some people while disenfranchising others. Is there a state that has a voucher system that is actually a high performer? Also what do you think about consolidation? I know that it's a tough sell in rural states but I think it would be a huge boost. Oklahoma has way too many districts per capita.

    I think one of the problems, especially here, is that too many people see public education as a front in the culture war and want to strengthen or weaken it accordingly.

  17. #542

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    I'm sure it helps improve outcomes for those fortunate enough to get those vouchers and what not to schools that are more than likely much better than where they are. Just saying. There are two sides to every coin.

    There aren't many examples of urban public schools that are models of proficiency.
    In Oklahoma, you're talking specifically about children with disabilities who receive the LHN scholarship. The vast majority of those schools are Catholic schools which are often less equipped to deal with a student's disability than a traditional public school, so while you may have some anecdotal stories of success, I doubt these religious schools with fewer resources are better able to provide for these children unless the local school is not providing the services they are legally required to provide.

    There are plenty of great examples of Oklahoma's urban schools achieving greatness. Even charters and magnets aside, Southeast Classen was/is a top-10 public high school in the State. In the last round of letter grades, U.S. Grant HS got a B+.

    There are a lot of issues with our current Charter statutes which have allowed some operators I'd characterize as shady to profiteer off of our education system. Parents are not always able to evaluate the quality of the education their student is receiving and out current evaluation system is a mess. While some operators like the Hardings do a fine job, others have at least been accused of some shady financial dealings and because of the politics of supporting education privatization, nothing has been fully investigated short of State Auditor's reports citing $250,000 payments to an out of state "science fair" which no Oklahoma students attended.

  18. #543

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    Southeast Classen? You mean Northwest Classen or Southeast High School?

  19. #544

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    There aren't many examples of urban public schools that are models of proficiency.
    I'll give you that, but is the answer to bring down the good performing public schools because of it? I'm glad I live in a state now that doesn't view a strong public education system as a threat.

  20. #545

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    Southeast Classen? You mean Northwest Classen or Southeast High School?
    i assumed it was a nickname for classen school of advanced studies... either that or it's northwest classen from the mirror universe where all the teachers have goatees.

  21. #546

  22. #547

    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    Southeast Classen? You mean Northwest Classen or Southeast High School?
    Southeast. #11 in Oklahoma. I left out the charters and magnets because that's not apples to apples.

  23. #548
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    Default Re: Education in Oklahoma

    The only part of their letter I liked, but not especially so the last part, was this:

    "Eliminate All Tax Credits. Tax credits are the essence of governmental corruption. They reflect that industrial cronies are able to buy political favors which provide subsidization for their industries. Bearing in mind that the income tax is a violation of our right to enjoy the fruits of our labor, if imposed, it should be applied equally to all citizens without exception. " (I hope they know eliminating the federal income tax would require a U. S. Constitutional amendment.)

    I viewed from a video their hour long meeting held at a room at the Mustang Police Dept. Their elder leader has a strange attitude not friendly toward public education which goes like:

    "Public education is founded upon entitlement and dependency. It's on a concept that everybody has a claim to collective property. I'm entitled to Patrick's money to educate a kid. Go free and prosper while taking money from someone else to educate their kids. Public education creates an entitled privileged class, because if you say tax it, that is a claim on somebody's property that is by definition an entitlement."

    One retired educator at the meeting thought it was a bad idea to release that letter.

    I can't imagine it being realistic to mostly reducing the number of school districts down to the number of counties. I doubt the smallest school districts in a county would want to be gobbled up by the the biggest school district. The biggest school district may not want more to worry about. Better to try to persuade the smallest school districts to consolidate together.

    As with President Trump, I expect Gov. Stitt's first two years to be full of controversy and stupid stuff.

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