Tragedy at Moore Food Plant

[Mel]

Would have been way cheaper if the owner/reserve officer had just emptied his clip into the perp. Way cheaper and faster and less painful than having your head sawed off.

[s00nr1]

I wonder what it cost the state to save his life in the hospital?

[Mel]

More than the funeral for that the Lady he tortured and killed.

[ljbab728]

Curious what the local Muslim community is saying?

They are certainly not silent on the issue.

Oklahoma beheading: Muslim religious leaders say Moore suspect visited local mosque | NewsOK.com

Both Mohammad and Enchassi denounced Nolen’s actions, saying his behavior is not in keeping with Islam, which they emphasized is a religion of peace.

“He is as far away from Islam as he can be,” Mohammad said.

[ljbab728]

I am sure everyone has seen it. A man had just been fired for trying to convert co workers to Islam, and so he came right back in and beheaded a woman. Horrific story.

What's really hard, for my family and I, is the woman was a very close family friend, she such a kind, sweet and giving woman. She will be deeply missed.

I've not seen anything anywhere in the news about why he was fired. Do you have inside information about that?

[catch22]

Hmmm. Maybe I have a little "growing up to do", I don't know, but at this point I believe that people who do things like this should made an example of what will happen to others should they follow in the same footsteps. There are crimes that people commit and then there are heinous acts of evil that should be dealt with in a manner that would have the person who committed these acts begging to die.

These people are sick and I think we are way too lenient on crime these days. Steal in parts of Iran and they will likely cut one of your hands off; so don't ask why rates of theft are so low there.

While I understand the desire for revenge. We must simply rise above that. We can't justify torture -- we are a civil society. Civil society calls for standard order. Barbaric society calls for beheading, dismembering, shaming, and torturing. By moving to torture him to death, we throw away our civil culture and are no better than him and his barbaric beliefs. What constitutes an act of evil and an act of crime? Is all crime evil, or is all evil crime? Where do we draw the line on who is tortured to death and who simply has their life ended?

I'm three-quarters of the way into my Gin and Tonic and bag of gummy bears for the evening, so I will call it quits for now.

What an awful thing to have here so close to home, though. I hope we rise above.

[Plutonic Panda]

While I understand the desire for revenge. We must simply rise above that. We can't justify torture -- we are a civil society. Civil society calls for standard order. Barbaric society calls for beheading, dismembering, shaming, and torturing. By moving to torture him to death, we throw away our civil culture and are no better than him and his barbaric beliefs. What constitutes an act of evil and an act of crime? Is all crime evil, or is all evil crime? Where do we draw the line on who is tortured to death and who simply has their life ended?

I'm three-quarters of the way into my Gin and Tonic and bag of gummy bears for the evening, so I will call it quits for now.

What an awful thing to have here so close to home, though. I hope we rise above.

that's true

[GoOKC1991]

I've not seen anything anywhere in the news about why he was fired. Do you have inside information about that?

I do not, sorry

[Dustin]

The guy obviously has severe mental issues. Doesn't matter if he just converted to Islam or not, he would killed someone eventually.

[JoninATX]

This person has severe mental issues. I hope he suffers from what he's done caused for the rest of his miserable life.

[PennyQuilts]

They are reporting (have no idea if this is correct) that he was fired after getting into some sort of argument with coworkers because he espoused stoning errant women.

[Plutonic Panda]

I've not seen anything anywhere in the news about why he was fired. Do you have inside information about that?

Oklahoma beheading: Attacker had just been fired from food company, police said | News OK

"It was 4:05 Thursday, a sunny and warm fall afternoon.

Alton Alexander Nolen, a 30-year-old ex-convict, had been fired from his job just moments before at Vaughan Foods, a food processing company located at 216 NE 12 in Moore.

Now, police say, an angered Nolen was taking his vengeance.

Nolen stormed out of the human resources office, located in a separate building on the southeast side of the property, got in his car and drove the short distance to the processing plant’s main warehouse building, striking another vehicle along the way, police said. He entered the warehouse.

There he encountered Colleen Hufford, a 54-year-old grandmother, who last year lost her home in the May 20 Moore tornado. A family friend said Hufford had worked in the office at Vaughan Foods for about five years."

[GoOKC1991]

What I want to know is: How was this guy, with his criminal background, hired in the first place?

[mugofbeer]

Curious what the local Muslim community is saying?

I'm glad to hear they are being critical of the murder. I asked originally not long after it happened but its hard to know when you are out of town what is going on. I hope to hear the local mosques will be making great efforts to be crystal clear to their members this type of thing is totally inhuman and intolerable. I also hope to hear of their sympathy to the family of the victim. Hats off to the exec who stopped him from killing more people.

[mugofbeer]

What I want to know is: How was this guy, with his criminal background, hired in the first place?

Those who have done their time have to be able to obtain employment somewhere.

[ljbab728]

I do not, sorry

Then why did you say "A man had just been fired for trying to convert co workers to Islam"?

[ljbab728]

Oklahoma beheading: Attacker had just been fired from food company, police said | News OK

"It was 4:05 Thursday, a sunny and warm fall afternoon.

Alton Alexander Nolen, a 30-year-old ex-convict, had been fired from his job just moments before at Vaughan Foods, a food processing company located at 216 NE 12 in Moore.

Now, police say, an angered Nolen was taking his vengeance.

Nolen stormed out of the human resources office, located in a separate building on the southeast side of the property, got in his car and drove the short distance to the processing plant’s main warehouse building, striking another vehicle along the way, police said. He entered the warehouse.

There he encountered Colleen Hufford, a 54-year-old grandmother, who last year lost her home in the May 20 Moore tornado. A family friend said Hufford had worked in the office at Vaughan Foods for about five years."

Plupan, that doesn't say why he was fired.

[Plutonic Panda]

Plupan, that doesn't say why he was fired.

correct. It said he was fired and tool vengeance.

[ljbab728]

correct. It said he was fired and tool vengeance.

Of course, the reason why I said that is that you were responding to my post asking about why he was fired when you posted that.

[Plutonic Panda]

Of course, the reason why I said that is that you were responding to my post asking about why he was fired when you posted that.

Oh I'm sorry, I thought you asked if he was fired... not why he was fired. I heard the same thing he was trying to convert others to Muslim, but it is just a rumor at this point and no truth behind it

[ljbab728]

Oh I'm sorry, I thought you asked if he was fired... not why he was fired. I heard the same thing he was trying to convert others to Muslim, but it is just a rumor at this point and no truth behind it

It has definitely been stated that he had been trying to convert co-workers to Islam but I have heard nothing to suggest that was why he was fired. That would just seem unlikely to me.

[RadicalModerate]

Just FYI, Plu, it costs orders of magnitude more to execute someone (legal costs) than it does to house them for life. I have no space for this wretched piece of flesh in this world, but when we mete out justice with the intent of torture and revenge, society as a whole looses a lot of any righteousness it has. The penalty is the loss of life, not the suffering on the way out. At least how the law reads, and if we abandon that, who are we?

There is no bigger fan of the Errol Morris Docu-Classic "The Thin Blue Line" than I. It was the one about how a guy, stuck in a Texas prison (and sentenced to death by the legal system) couldn't possibly have been guilty of the crime with which he was charged.

Having said that, your observation that "it costs orders of magnitude more to execute someone (legal costs) than it does to house them for life." seems to indicate one of the largest flaws in our Justice System that can possibly be imagined. It's akin to the proverbial "elephant in the room" that too many members of the "legal professional industry" seem to be riding to the bank or wherever. Well . . . isn't it?

A perfectly legal execution for a perpetrator such as the one immediately under discussion in this particular case could, after a fair trial, be performed for the cost of a Buck knife or one bullet from a .45 Colt at a fraction of the "legalese cost". Couldn't it? (sorry . . . still remember Roger Dale Stafford. I apologize).

Maybe, when the deed is done . . . the last thing this so-called radical converted "muslim" copycatting stuff he heard on the NewZ might hear should be, "Ala Kabar"? with the accent over the second a?

I'm still musing over the "express lane to justice" mentioned earlier in this discussion.

(edited to add: I too, Love The Paseo [district]. Not yet Freakin' Out over it. =)

[RadicalModerate]

It has definitely been stated that he had been trying to convert co-workers to Islam but I have heard nothing to suggest that was why he was fired. That would just seem unlikely to me.

Most workplaces have well defined SOPs regarding soliciting political or religious policies on company property.
And, in general, that is a good thing. Isn't it?

[ljbab728]

Most workplaces have well defined SOPs regarding soliciting political or religious policies on company property.
And, in general, that is a good thing. Isn't it?

That still doesn't say why he was fired whether it's proper or not.

[RadicalModerate]

That still doesn't say why he was fired whether it's proper or not.

I guess that is up to the Jury of His Peers to decide . . . ain't it?
Of course it is. Ain't it?

Sorry . . . Forgot to play The Red Queen . . . (you know the citation . . . =)
(please accept my apologies for placing an emoticon on this thread)
(and ref. post #11, above--near the start of the conversation--for clarification of any misunderstandings)