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Thread: Oklahoma in the ranks

  1. #176

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsooner View Post
    Meant to post this article earlier, but I knew I would get hammered.
    I think most people know where the shortcomings are with things like education, mental health and lack of a talented workforce. Obviously those things will bring down any ranking against states that perform better. I have a hard time believing Kansas is that significantly better though at #19.

  2. #177

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    How did Oklahoma get to 50 in education? Conservatives would say quality of education should not be measured by amount of money thrown at it but rather how great the results were.

  3. #178

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    I thought I read a headline the other day saying they ranked 43rd.

  4. #179
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    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    How did Oklahoma get to 50 in education? Conservatives would say quality of education should not be measured by amount of money thrown at it but rather how great the results were.
    Oklahoma ranks low in education, arts, health, pay levels, insurance coverage... high in incarcerations, divorces, poverty, drug addiction, obesity, teenage marriage.... Oh...high in sports achievements...lol. But we are the most right wing republican state in the country and proud of it. That should tell us something.

  5. #180

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Oklahoma ranks low in education, arts, health, pay levels, insurance coverage... high in incarcerations, divorces, poverty, drug addiction, obesity, teenage marriage.... Oh...high in sports achievements...lol. But we are the most right wing republican state in the country and proud of it. That should tell us something.
    If Oklahoma would just pass Medicaid expansion it would help a lot of those things on that list. If we can’t even pick the low hanging fruit like this, forget about tackling those bigger issues. We will remain at the bottom of these lists with the rest of the Bible Belt.

  6. #181

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Oklahoma ranks low in education, arts, health, pay levels, insurance coverage... high in incarcerations, divorces, poverty, drug addiction, obesity, teenage marriage.... Oh...high in sports achievements...lol. But we are the most right wing republican state in the country and proud of it. That should tell us something.
    Just Sayin

  7. #182

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    If Oklahoma would just pass Medicaid expansion it would help a lot of those things on that list. If we can’t even pick the low hanging fruit like this, forget about tackling those bigger issues. We will remain at the bottom of these lists with the rest of the Bible Belt.
    Well, you can't correct for almost 100 years of Democratic control of State govt , in 10 years.

  8. #183

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDollar View Post
    Well, you can't correct for almost 100 years of Democratic control of State govt , in 10 years.
    This is THE problem. Partisan stupidity

  9. #184

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDollar View Post
    Well, you can't correct for almost 100 years of Democratic control of State govt , in 10 years.
    Since 2008, it was Republicans that cut education down past the bone and started scooping out the marrow. Before that, yeah, maybe some cuts happened to education, but nothing like how massively it was cut after 2008.

    https://ballotpedia.org/Party_contro...ate_government

    https://okpolicy.org/report-oklahoma...g-cuts-nation/

    https://www.economist.com/united-sta...-with-oklahoma

  10. #185

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsooner View Post
    This is THE problem. Partisan stupidity
    Yep. It would be one thing if the state Republicans actually offered solutions aside from more Jesus and more tax cuts for the top 1%. They have made it clear they really don't have it in them to do what they really need to do to fix the state's education woes. My personal opinion is that it might be intentional. The worse the state's public education system is, the more people will homeschool or send their kids to private schools. Of course, if you aren't rich, you are stuck with the public school system.

  11. #186

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by TheTravellers View Post
    Since 2008, it was Republicans that cut education down past the bone and started scooping out the marrow. Before that, yeah, maybe some cuts happened to education, but nothing like how massively it was cut after 2008.

    https://ballotpedia.org/Party_contro...ate_government

    https://okpolicy.org/report-oklahoma...g-cuts-nation/

    https://www.economist.com/united-sta...-with-oklahoma
    I mean, you're TECHNICALLY correct, while also being a bit misleading. Not giving them a pass on the cuts that happened, and they certainly haven't raised it enough or kept up with growth, but 2008 was a blip. Prior to 2008 education spending had been flat, right at or under 3 B. It jumped to 3.82 B in 2008, and held steady for a couple of years, and then dropped down to about 3.5 B, still higher than it had been trending pre 2008. I've seen folks using the convenient 2008 number a lot, which was more a fluke than a pattern. (all of this gets worse if account for inflation and per pupil spending of course).

    Either way, education has NEVER been a priority in Oklahoma, or at least in my lifetime. I'm not sure if it's a symptom or rural life or farm life or poverty levels or what...

  12. #187

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    I mean, you're TECHNICALLY correct, while also being a bit misleading. Not giving them a pass on the cuts that happened, and they certainly haven't raised it enough or kept up with growth, but 2008 was a blip. Prior to 2008 education spending had been flat, right at or under 3 B. It jumped to 3.82 B in 2008, and held steady for a couple of years, and then dropped down to about 3.5 B, still higher than it had been trending pre 2008. I've seen folks using the convenient 2008 number a lot, which was more a fluke than a pattern. (all of this gets worse if account for inflation and per pupil spending of course).

    Either way, education has NEVER been a priority in Oklahoma, or at least in my lifetime. I'm not sure if it's a symptom or rural life or farm life or poverty levels or what...
    Agreed on your last paragraph. But the links I posted were about cuts *since* 2008, not just *in* 2008, and Rs have been in charge since 2009.

  13. #188

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    it is common knowledge that Oklahoma is garbage with funding education. We need to stop arguing semantics and just fix it.

    Simply put, dramatically increase funding for public schools. If taxes need to be raised then just do it. It is not a hard concept to understand for anyone. it isn't even a political issue. Just fund public education. How is this still a thing in 2019.

  14. #189

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    Simply put, dramatically increase funding for public schools. If taxes need to be raised then just do it. It is not a hard concept to understand for anyone. it isn't even a political issue. Just fund public education. How is this still a thing in 2019.
    It's a big problem here in the Bible Belt (Oklahoma isn't alone in this). Too many people see public schools as secular/leftist indoctrination centers. Remember a few years ago when OK state lawmakers were trying to abolish AP courses because they thought there wasn't enough emphasis in the curriculum on America's Christian heritage?

    Another factor not related to this is there are simply too many districts. However, small communities in the South are generally centered around a high school football team. School consolidation would mean these smaller towns would no longer have their own school districts and would lose their alma matters. That's something that won't go over very well in a rural-dominated state like Oklahoma. Arkansas has the exact same problem. Back in the 2000s, governor Mike Huckabee actually tried to address it and got tremendous pushback from the rural communities that didn't want to lose their independent school districts.

  15. #190

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    It's a big problem here in the Bible Belt (Oklahoma isn't alone in this). Too many people see public schools as secular/leftist indoctrination centers. Remember a few years ago when OK state lawmakers were trying to abolish AP courses because they thought there wasn't enough emphasis in the curriculum on America's Christian heritage?

    Another factor not related to this is there are simply too many districts. However, small communities in the South are generally centered around a high school football team. School consolidation would mean these smaller towns would no longer have their own school districts and would lose their alma matters. That's something that won't go over very well in a rural-dominated state like Oklahoma. Arkansas has the exact same problem. Back in the 2000s, governor Mike Huckabee actually tried to address it and got tremendous pushback from the rural communities that didn't want to lose their independent school districts.
    I agree with your first paragraph totally, but the argument about districts costing the state to much is just a diversion people like to use for why we are so bad at funding schools. The truth is, it's just a talking point that means nothing. if Oklahoma got rid of every single administrative position in the entire state of Oklahoma, it wouldn't even move us up one single spot in the amount spent per pupil rankings. You are correct that consolidation would never happen anyway. Conservative lawmakers that say we have to many districts would never go through with actual consolidations. There is no way in hell they are going back to their rural districts to tell their constituents that news.

  16. #191

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Oklahoma ranks low in education, arts, health, pay levels, insurance coverage... high in incarcerations, divorces, poverty, drug addiction, obesity, teenage marriage.... Oh...high in sports achievements...lol. But we are the most right wing republican state in the country and proud of it. That should tell us something.
    One of my favorite sayings is "Life is how you make it". So if you're poorly educated, fat, work at minimum wage, didn't buy auto and/or health insurance, drug addicted and finally ended up in prison, it's your own damned fault, not the state of Oklahoma's.

    Give Oklahoma a break. I think Alabama and Mississippi are even worse at being right wing Republican. From the 2018 elections, Oklahoma voters threw out some bad Republican legislators holding Oklahoma back. Hopefully, another good round of that comes at the polls in 2020. State Sen. Silk is among those who should be targeted.

  17. #192

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    I agree with your first paragraph totally, but the argument about districts costing the state to much is just a diversion people like to use for why we are so bad at funding schools. The truth is, it's just a talking point that means nothing. if Oklahoma got rid of every single administrative position in the entire state of Oklahoma, it wouldn't even move us up one single spot in the amount spent per pupil rankings. You are correct that consolidation would never happen anyway. Conservative lawmakers that say we have to many districts would never go through with actual consolidations. There is no way in hell they are going back to their rural districts to tell their constituents that news.
    Not even consolidating school boards would be acceptable in rural areas? Keep school boards local just as important as keeping high schools local? If the 4 school boards of 4 neighboring small towns consolidated, it would seem to be an attractive amount of money would be made available from the savings.

  18. #193

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDollar View Post
    Well, you can't correct for almost 100 years of Democratic control of State govt , in 10 years.
    Still, Republicans have been way too slow and reluctant to correct things after Democrat control. In the case of justice reform, the people had to give up and go the petition route. It's probably a symptom that Republicans often voted along with Democrats for almost 100 years.

  19. #194

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    Not even consolidating school boards would be acceptable in rural areas? Keep school boards local just as important as keeping high schools local? If the 4 school boards of 4 neighboring small towns consolidated, it would seem to be an attractive amount of money would be made available from the savings.
    Consolidating schools boards? Do you know how much school board members get paid? $25.00 a meeting.

    Again, we have to get past these nonsensical talking points that are meant to distract and offer no actual solution for anything and just just fund the damn public school system.

  20. #195
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    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDollar View Post
    Well, you can't correct for almost 100 years of Democratic control of State govt , in 10 years.
    What...like when the state was forming in 1907. Let’s talk about today instead of deflecting and not addressing real facts and situations.
    We have prized white flight, home schooling (often same as white flight), and then diminishing support of public schools. Keep them uneducated, poor and vulnerable and they will work for cheap and believe anything you tell them.

  21. #196
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    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by dcsooner View Post
    This is THE problem. Partisan stupidity
    No.. just STUPIDITY period.

  22. #197
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    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDollar View Post
    Well, you can't correct for almost 100 years of Democratic control of State govt , in 10 years.
    Total bs deflection and lack of courage to address the problem with more than riteous sounding self serving platitudes.

  23. #198

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by GoGators View Post
    Consolidating schools boards? Do you know how much school board members get paid? $25.00 a meeting.

    Again, we have to get past these nonsensical talking points that are meant to distract and offer no actual solution for anything and just just fund the damn public school system.
    Then consolidate school superintendents. They make around $100,000.

  24. #199

    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    Then consolidate school superintendents. They make around $100,000.
    Again, if we just straight up fired EVERY SINGLE superintendent in the entire state of Oklahoma, it wouldn’t even add enough additional funds to move us up one spot in the rankings on funding per pupil. That’s what I’m trying to say.

    It has nothing to do with administrative costs. It has nothing to do with the number of districts. The Oklahoma legislature is not properly funding education. That’s it, that’s the problem. The only solution is to put more money into public education.

  25. #200
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    Default Re: Oklahoma in the ranks

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    Then consolidate school superintendents. They make around $100,000.
    You are being sold a bill of goods from the tea party. Quit falling for their deception. Our legislature is inept at real problem solving.

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