OAK (formerly Penn Central)

[Patrick]

Von Maur would’ve been a better fit at Penn Square. They’re not doing well at Quail Springs. The city offered them several
Incentives based on sales targets and they’ve met none of them. Had they not invested so much in remodeling that space, I doubt they’d still be there. With Macys on the decline, Von Maur would’ve been a better fit in that space at Penn. a Scheels would be great too. I’d love to see both stores replace Penney’s and Macys at Penn. Doubt Penney’s will leave though since they’re jointly owned by Brookfield and Simon.

[soonerguru]

It has to be said that Dillard's -- and especially the two large stores at Penn Square -- is darn good. Von Maur, too.

I used to love Nordies when I lived in L.A. and had to wear a suit every day (*suit*, not a sportcoat and no casual Fridays) and their customer service is outstanding, but I started to buy only tailor-made clothing from an outfit that would come to your office and they were no more expensive and infinitely better.

Nordstrom sportswear and casual stuff can be bought in other places, including online. I'm not sure they are nearly as relevant as they once were in the 90s and 00s. And they really are just a big clothing and accessories store, not a true department store.

Now Bloomingdale's would be a big deal but that is never going to happen.

Bloomingdale's would be unbelievable. The Midtown Manhattan location is my favorite US Department store.

[EBAH]

It has to be said that Dillard's -- and especially the two large stores at Penn Square -- is darn good. Von Maur, too.

I used to love Nordies when I lived in L.A. and had to wear a suit every day (*suit*, not a sportcoat and no casual Fridays) and their customer service is outstanding, but I started to buy only tailor-made clothing from an outfit that would come to your office and they were no more expensive and infinitely better.

Nordstrom sportswear and casual stuff can be bought in other places, including online. I'm not sure they are nearly as relevant as they once were in the 90s and 00s. And they really are just a big clothing and accessories store, not a true department store.

Now Bloomingdale's would be a big deal but that is never going to happen.

This actually just isn't true, nothing at Dillards isn't cheap Chinese made crap, they don't have a single line that isn't a hedge fund owned brand that just contract manufactures overseas.

Nordstrom at least carries well made things and are relevant in so many ways to actual modern fashion, Von Maur is a literal joke for christian grandmothers, Dillards is adequate in a vacuum where there are no actual major brand boutiques or higher tier department stores, I mean, Dillards considers Hugo Boss to be stylish mens wear, there is literally 20 years of major brands not carried at all. Even painfully dated lines like Theory, Rag and Bone and Vince are like too high end and edgy for Dillards lol

There is zero Todd Syder, APC, Acne Studios, Buck Mason, AMI, Beams, Thom Browne, 3sixteen on and on and on and the fragrances, womens lines, and accessories are even worse, no Aesop, no Diptyque, DS & Durga blah blah blah nothing modern AT ALL These aren't niche or strange brands they are COMMON and easy to buy in multiple outlets in all major cities (like even Columbus or Pittsburgh or San Antonio or cities we pretend to be larger than) the retail here is pathetic.

There is literally nothing outside of underwear I would even buy at Dillards or any other store in Penn or Quail.

Growing up here I'm tired of the 'you can buy it in other cities or online stuff'. There is millions being spent on a retail development and it's for the same old boxy suits, chinese made hawaiin shirts and chinese made particle board white box faux vintage furniture we already have. I shop, I shop for real, and sorry, but I'm just not that excited about a bunch more stores I can't buy things at. We haven't even caught up to the retail trends of 2017. Luckily we do have By.E and a small number of actually interesting retailers that make it not completely miserable, but still, it's frustrating to not even have a place to try things on at. I have to drive out of state to even buy a suit online (lol because wow can you not buy a good suit here AT ALL)

Anyway, like I said, I'm hopeful that as the place gets closer to completion there will be some actual exciting announcements

[Pete]

^

OKC has always been a place that has relied on really good men's stores rather than department stores.

Mr. Ooleys and Steven Giles along with Alton's in Edmond are darn good. Rye 51 has a bunch of higher-end fashion stuff. We now have a dedicated Allen Edmonds store at Classen Curve. Until recently we had Orbach's, Harold's, the Squire Shop and a bunch more.

I only shopped at Nordies in L.A. because there was a dearth of nice dedicated men's stores. And even then I spent more money at Saks and Bloomies and Barneys (which is now a Saks).

I used to love Nordstrom but they now feel pretty tired and I stopped shopping there long before I moved back to OKC. I'd like to get them just from a prestige factor but otherwise don't miss them at all.

[bison34]

^

OKC has always been a place that has relied on really good men's stores rather than department stores.

Mr. Ooleys and Steven Giles along with Alton's in Edmond are darn good. Rye 51 has a bunch of higher-end fashion stuff. We now have a dedicated Allen Edmonds store at Classen Curve. Until recently we had Orbach's, Harold's, the Squire Shop and a bunch more.

I only shopped at Nordies in L.A. because there was a dearth of nice dedicated men's stores. And even then I spent more money at Saks and Bloomies.

I used to love Nordstrom but they now feel pretty tired and I stopped shopping there long before I moved back to OKC. I'd like to get them just from a prestige factor but otherwise don't miss them at all.

And, like you mentioned earlier, OKC's Penn Square Dillards are both basically at Nordstrom's level. Dillards as a whole, no. But OKC's has their nicest brands (literally a whole section of Creed cologne, for example, that sells VERY well).

OKC (or Columbus. Pittsburgh or San Antonio, for that matter) may not have any of the brands he mentioned, but those are very niche (not Common, like he thinks), and are not indicative of OKC being a poor retail market. i don't know where he is coming from.

[Pete]

The problem is that everyone wants to compare our offerings to Dallas or L.A. which are the very biggest consumer markets in the country.

Because of the high prevalence of locally-owned men's stores here, I think we have had far better offerings than most cities of our size.

Plus, it's not that difficult to drive down to Dallas.

[bison34]

The problem is that everyone wants to compare our offerings to Dallas or L.A. which are the very biggest consumer markets in the country.

Because of the high prevalence of locally-owned men's stores here, I think we have had far better offerings than most cities of our size.

Plus, it's not that difficult to drive down to Dallas.

I need to check out more of them. I've been to Mr Ooley's before, but definitely want to go to Allton's!

[traxx]

I agree with Pete. If you're not from here (moved here in the last several years) then you're going to be looking for Saks etc. But the local shops here are really good. I believe Alton's has their stuff custom made. Ooley's tends to have a lot of European stuff, especially suits. These places are not your cheap, Chinese fast fashion like Jo Bank etc. You just have to know where to look.

[Bowser214]

I've only been to Von Maur a couple of times. I think they have nice merchandise but I like the selection at Dillard's better. (for me) I do appreciate VM's Christmas decorations. I think OKC could support a Nordstrom. Wishful thinking I know.
My best friend is an assistant mgr at Pottery Barn on Knox St in Dallas. One of the highest volume stores. He says he has many customers from OK. He'll text me "just had a family spend 20K on their 10 yr old's room." or " just had a 65k sale" crazy.

[soonermike81]

I shop, I shop for real…

Calm down, guy. Lol

[EBAH]

And, like you mentioned earlier, OKC's Penn Square Dillards are both basically at Nordstrom's level. Dillards as a whole, no. But OKC's has their nicest brands (literally a whole section of Creed cologne, for example, that sells VERY well).

OKC (or Columbus. Pittsburgh or San Antonio, for that matter) may not have any of the brands he mentioned, but those are very niche (not Common, like he thinks), and are not indicative of OKC being a poor retail market. i don't know where he is coming from.

lol my comment about Nordstrom was just I'd personally like one, and I don't think its outrageous, I'm not asking for a Neimans, but to think that OKC Dillards or Von Maur is up to that level is just not in any way true at all. It's just not. I'm like, is this the attitude that explains why a lot of older men here look like their wives buy there clothes? hahaha

Point is, I'm just giving you another point of view, the small stores (Yes, I go to Altons, By E, CK and Co, Bosquet, Mr Ooleys, Steven Giles, 1032 Space and on) have a place and many are great, and no not just chinese made trash at all. By E is quite genuinely one of the best and most fashion forward small retailers in the central US and doing excellent work. But, first of all, ALL large cities have those too, and we have 'Mostly relied on small independent stores' because we have historically been passed over by retailers and I thought we had mostly convinced ourselves that was changing. When it comes to this big development, it is a lot of lame old stuff. You guys get comically defensive when it comes to this, I mean listen, you're acting like "retail is dead" in a thread about a retail development that is costing hundreds of millions of dollars. I'm just saying look at other large developments that have come online in comparable markets in the last few year and look at the brands being offered.

You can pat the city on the head and say this is fine, we should be pleased, we have all the things you want, and then get excited about another burger chain, but I'm born and raised here, travel to small, medium and large markets regularly and spend a good amount of that time shopping for clothes, and as much as anyone in this forum I can say with pretty good information, our retail is pretty out of date. I mean maybe, as I have gotten a lot older while reading the threads in this forum, many of you have ended up in the crosshairs of Tommy Bahama (who's median target demo is literally men 59), but for a lot of the younger professional people we are supposedly so excited about moving here these days, the announcements at Oak are very very eyeroll. I mean, I laughed out loud at the comments in this thread about how exciting the restaurant at Tommy Bahama will be.

You guys complain about so many things needing to be better and hoping for more, All I'm saying is for as much money as is being spent on this and as good as the design is, it is a bummer to see that the retail announcements are just so uninteresting.

[EBAH]

I mean my wife laughed and was like, I think a ton of people would just be happy here if we could at least move up to Everlane level, which, talk about NOT NICHE, is basically just the replacement for the Gap.

She also lol'd and said, guys, we just got an Urban Outfitters about 10 years after losing its relevance and about 25 years after it opened in Austin.

Basically believe whatever you want, but the retail announcements of Oak are so far just same ole same ole and humorously dated

Look, it's really just like, remember back in 2008 how we felt about the grocery market here? there was no sprouts, no whole foods etc?

The retail market here is very much like that too. Mr Ooleys and Altons sell nice things, for old people, Dillards sells popular things, if you just want like, a good shirt for work. But like, we all get excited about how we are moving in to being a larger market and the retail announcements from the Oak development are definitely NOT that. So far it is like, announcing a brand new batch of the remaining parts of the dying Utica Square, and NOT like a thriving new retail development. We are not getting the kind of attention from retailers that are actually getting attention from younger affluent consumers, we just aren't. I don't see how you all as people that care about Oklahoma City don't see how swooping in and saying "things are good enough" isn;t the exact same old tired nonsense you've all heard about the parts of an economy YOU care about for years as well, I mean, I have to hear about how cool and different a specific new Golf store is despite us having multiple golf stores, has it ever occurred to you that maybe you're actually just no that in to fashionable clothing and household accesories and maybe others are?

[Pete]

^

Wow.

[Dob Hooligan]

I think most of us on this forum wear clothes our wives buy for us.........

[Mballard85]

I mean my wife laughed and was like, I think a ton of people would just be happy here if we could at least move up to Everlane level, which, talk about NOT NICHE, is basically just the replacement for the Gap.

She also lol'd and said, guys, we just got an Urban Outfitters about 10 years after losing its relevance and about 25 years after it opened in Austin.

Basically believe whatever you want, but the retail announcements of Oak are so far just same ole same ole and humorously dated

Look, it's really just like, remember back in 2008 how we felt about the grocery market here? there was no sprouts, no whole foods etc?

The retail market here is very much like that too. Mr Ooleys and Altons sell nice things, for old people, Dillards sells popular things, if you just want like, a good shirt for work. But like, we all get excited about how we are moving in to being a larger market and the retail announcements from the Oak development are definitely NOT that. So far it is like, announcing a brand new batch of the remaining parts of the dying Utica Square, and NOT like a thriving new retail development. We are not getting the kind of attention from retailers that are actually getting attention from younger affluent consumers, we just aren't. I don't see how you all as people that care about Oklahoma City don't see how swooping in and saying "things are good enough" isn;t the exact same old tired nonsense you've all heard about the parts of an economy YOU care about for years as well, I mean, I have to hear about how cool and different a specific new Golf store is despite us having multiple golf stores, has it ever occurred to you that maybe you're actually just no that in to fashionable clothing and household accessories and maybe others are?

This was a fun read, the backhanded comments and all.

[Mballard85]

I think most of us on this forum wear clothes our wives buy for us.........

Apparently we need to travel more

[Rover]

I think most of us on this forum wear clothes our wives buy for us.........

Maybe the old guys do. But gender doesn’t equal taste.

[pickles]

lmao

[Mississippi Blues]

Maybe the old guys do. But gender doesn’t equal taste.

My life began to flourish once my mom stopped picking out my clothes.

[OkieinGeorgia]

I mean my wife laughed and was like, I think a ton of people would just be happy here if we could at least move up to Everlane level, which, talk about NOT NICHE, is basically just the replacement for the Gap.

She also lol'd and said, guys, we just got an Urban Outfitters about 10 years after losing its relevance and about 25 years after it opened in Austin.

Basically believe whatever you want, but the retail announcements of Oak are so far just same ole same ole and humorously dated

Look, it's really just like, remember back in 2008 how we felt about the grocery market here? there was no sprouts, no whole foods etc?

The retail market here is very much like that too. Mr Ooleys and Altons sell nice things, for old people, Dillards sells popular things, if you just want like, a good shirt for work. But like, we all get excited about how we are moving in to being a larger market and the retail announcements from the Oak development are definitely NOT that. So far it is like, announcing a brand new batch of the remaining parts of the dying Utica Square, and NOT like a thriving new retail development. We are not getting the kind of attention from retailers that are actually getting attention from younger affluent consumers, we just aren't. I don't see how you all as people that care about Oklahoma City don't see how swooping in and saying "things are good enough" isn;t the exact same old tired nonsense you've all heard about the parts of an economy YOU care about for years as well, I mean, I have to hear about how cool and different a specific new Golf store is despite us having multiple golf stores, has it ever occurred to you that maybe you're actually just no that in to fashionable clothing and household accesories and maybe others are?

Has it ever occurred to YOU that your feelings on shopping are a bit fringe and likely more specific than for the majority of shoppers, especially OKC shoppers? lol I get it that shopping is clearly you and your wife's "thing." That's great and all, but surely you can understand that maybe, just maybe, you are an outlier and your shopping proclivities don't necessarily translate to the masses in OKC?

Sounds like you are mad the shopping in OKC isn't up to LA/NYC/Miami standards. Which is pretty ridiculous, to be honest. Read the room, man.

[EBAH]

I mean Pete, I've been here for the long haul, but I'm 100% serious, this is a category that is constantly a "we're lucky to get what we get" consensus from you guys, and yeah sorry, it's very lacking and just because it's something most of you don't care about doesn't mean it isn't real.

If you know of a newer retail brand that has openned a store in OKC in the last 20 years I'd love to hear about it but there isn't one and all the newer offerings have been ones that even mid tier markets have had for decades. It's an easy to see easy to understand thing, and being responded to that I just don't understand and I am just "comparing us to LA or Dallas" is equally backhanded and insulting.

I do actually know what I am talking about, do understand the demos and size of our market, do understand the landscape of modern retail and do have a good understanding of the types of retailers we can support, and still, we are quite passed over and behind. So yeah I got snarky. lol and yeah I think your attitudes are largely because this is not something you care about, but it is something a lot of younger people moving to cities care about and even something site selector QOL surveys care about as well. Sorry if it is offensive to say that Tommy Bamaha is something better suited near a retirement home in Florida but fact is, that it is.

^

Wow.

[EBAH]

Has it ever occurred to YOU that your feelings on shopping are a bit fringe and likely more specific than for the majority of shoppers, especially OKC shoppers? lol I get it that shopping is clearly you and your wife's "thing." That's great and all, but surely you can understand that maybe, just maybe, you are an outlier and your shopping proclivities don't necessarily translate to the masses in OKC?

Sounds like you are mad the shopping in OKC isn't up to LA/NYC/Miami standards. Which is pretty ridiculous, to be honest. Read the room, man.

I am reading the room, that's the problem. I'm like, what do you guys all live in deep suburbs or something?!?! I see these products on people in OKC all the time, and they are not even remotely fringe. The fact is, this city IS actually fashionable and much larger than it used to be, and it can support a lot of the aforementioned brands, and DOES, they are currently just spending that money, on those brands elsewhere. The problem is in perception of the market externally and we had that same problem in other sectors that we have come a long way to correct. This development is absolutely the kind that should be making significant progress in this category and all I am saying is I am quite dissapointed so far with the direction it is pointing.

Calm down guys, there will still be plenty of khaki shorts and OU Polo shirts (I promise this is my last back handed jab hahaha)

[Mballard85]

I am reading the room, that's the problem. I'm like, what do you guys all live in deep suburbs or something?!?! I see these products on people in OKC all the time, and they are not even remotely fringe. The fact is, this city IS actually fashionable and much larger than it used to be, and it can support a lot of the aforementioned brands, and DOES, they are currently just spending that money, on those brands elsewhere. The problem is in perception of the market externally and we had that same problem in other sectors that we have come a long way to correct. This development is absolutely the kind that should be making significant progress in this category and all I am saying is I am quite dissapointed so far with the direction it is pointing.

Calm down guys, there will still be plenty of khaki shorts and OU Polo shirts (I promise this is my last back handed jab hahaha)

If you're going to be a jerk, at least do it with correct spelling and punctuation. Nothing says bully more than looking foolish while trying to dog on someone.

[OkieinGeorgia]

I am reading the room, that's the problem. I'm like, what do you guys all live in deep suburbs or something?!?! I see these products on people in OKC all the time, and they are not even remotely fringe. The fact is, this city IS actually fashionable and much larger than it used to be, and it can support a lot of the aforementioned brands, and DOES, they are currently just spending that money, on those brands elsewhere. The problem is in perception of the market externally and we had that same problem in other sectors that we have come a long way to correct. This development is absolutely the kind that should be making significant progress in this category and all I am saying is I am quite dissapointed so far with the direction it is pointing.

Calm down guys, there will still be plenty of khaki shorts and OU Polo shirts (I promise this is my last back handed jab hahaha)

Don't you think there's a reason why these companies are passing on OKC? lol. It's not because we are bad mouthing them on the forum. It's because they don't view it as a viable market yet. While young people from OKC are staying in OKC more than before, most of them are still running away as soon as they can. Especially the ones that shop at the places you mention. Do you think these stores are inquiring about OKC and the Mayor and Chamber are turning them away? That's not how this works.

And, easy on the khaki shorts and OU polo reference. I also occasionally wear Thunder polos as well, so there! LOL

On edit: And, BTW, the majority of people in OKC live in the suburbs. lol.

[Pete]

I mean Pete, I've been here for the long haul, but I'm 100% serious, this is a category that is constantly a "we're lucky to get what we get" consensus from you guys, and yeah sorry, it's very lacking and just because it's something most of you don't care about doesn't mean it isn't real.

If you know of a newer retail brand that has openned a store in OKC in the last 20 years I'd love to hear about it but there isn't one and all the newer offerings have been ones that even mid tier markets have had for decades. It's an easy to see easy to understand thing, and being responded to that I just don't understand and I am just "comparing us to LA or Dallas" is equally backhanded and insulting.

I do actually know what I am talking about, do understand the demos and size of our market, do understand the landscape of modern retail and do have a good understanding of the types of retailers we can support, and still, we are quite passed over and behind. So yeah I got snarky. lol and yeah I think your attitudes are largely because this is not something you care about, but it is something a lot of younger people moving to cities care about and even something site selector QOL surveys care about as well. Sorry if it is offensive to say that Tommy Bamaha is something better suited near a retirement home in Florida but fact is, that it is.

I'm done with this discussion -- best wishes to you.