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  1. #351
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    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Quote Originally Posted by Colbafone View Post
    EH, honestly, the intersection isn't that bad. I walk from North Penn Plaza around this ENTIRE area daily. I've crossed every direction at the intersection tons of times. No, it's not super friendly, but there is never an issue either. You just have to get out and do it. All of you saying its so difficult walking around Penn Square have just never done it, So far I've walked from North Penn Plaza to....the Belle Isle Library, the corner of 63rd and May, the Waterford area, Penn Square, the Belle Isle War Mart area, the McDonalds between Classen and Penn on Expressway, Olive Garden, 50 Penn Place, Lip Smackers, Target, and Charcoal Oven back when it was open.

    We all want areas in this city to be more pedestrian friendly, but there rarely is any reason or incentive to alter anything. Most people never walk. We just need to get more active about it and do it. The only people I ever run into in this area who are also out walking are the occasional people who drop their cars off at Red Carpet then walk to the Mall, or homeless people. Thats it. More sidewalks would be nice. There are NO sidewalks along Expressway here. At all. Penn has them on both sides of the street at least. but to act like the Mall parking lot is impassable is silly. Granted, its long, so at any given point trying to walk to the Mall, you're about 100 yards from the Mall. But the walk from the Container store, UMB, or Cheesecake factory to the mall takes all of about 1 minute. And its not difficult in the slightest. Even crossing Expressway isn't difficult, though its is intimidating.

    Anyway, the point of this, is that the Mall has zero incentive to be more pedestrian friendly. The bus stops around it are lightly (at best) used and there are so few pedestrians on a daily basis. What reason do they have to spend the money to make it more pedestrian friendly? As much as I would like them to do so, it would just be a huge waste of money for them or the city.

    Hopefully, once OAK get built out and more people move into that area, we will see more pedestrians and more pedestrian safety and development, but that will only come about when more people actually start walking in the area.
    Sidewalk on 63rd from Penn to Grand would help walkability among the areas you point out. Easy to go from Penn and 63rd area to Penn Square area. 63rds a walking/biking nightmare.

  2. #352

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    Sidewalk on 63rd from Penn to Grand would help walkability among the areas you point out. Easy to go from Penn and 63rd area to Penn Square area. 63rds a walking/biking nightmare.
    63rd is even worse than Expressway. At least Expressway has plenty of room parellel with the street for a ways. 63rd has none. The few times I've walked down 63rd have been awful.

  3. #353

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    I really don’t see why Penn Square is protesting this. Different type of tenants and it will bring increased traffic to the area which should be good for them
    Hey Dr. Patrick, glad to see you have time to post knowing the busy demand for your services.

    Have no idea what the occupancy rate of Penn Square Mall; they may feel threatened by this new development.

    My son, got me to use Amazon. It seems to take forever for them to deliver; think I'll go back to the malls where I can let my senses assist with my shopping. The biggest drawback to shopping period is becoming too preoccupied or impulse buying.

  4. #354

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    that will change once Amazon's center is online in OKC. ...
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  5. #355

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    My youngest son applied for Amazon Fulfillment here in the city.

    The family lives in McKinney--says he can't wait to return home, he misses OU Sooner football & Thunder basketball. Bought Thunder & Sooner attire for his boys Eduardo & Sergio, they love the neighborhood attention they receive. Grandsons cherish Arbuckle Mountains & Oklahoma City, of course I spoiled the hell out of them when they are here . They really miss the snow (visit here one winter), something they seldom see in that area of Texas.

  6. #356

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    This project, known as zoning case no. PUD-1715, was just given unanimous final approval by the City Council, with two minor development amendments related to the parking garage (garage height limited to 60, building setback 10 from south property line) located in the southwest section of the development.

  7. #357

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    I'm certainly thrilled to see this project progressing. Two thumbs up!

    But to address a topic from upthread, I'm not surprised at all that Penn Square would be against this development. Enclosed malls are in trouble. Penn Square has been somewhat insulated from that in OKC because of location, momentum and tenant mix. I doubt Penn Square is in deep trouble at the moment but they can't like added competition. BC Clark is moving to Classen Curve. I could certainly envision some of the mall's higher-end tenants seeking a move to this location when it is built. The likes of J. Crew etc. If those tenants don't move, they might at least be able to threaten a move to obtain rent concessions from the mall. I know we all would like to see brand new retailers come in, but the experience with Classen Curve already has demonstrated that it's a slow process. In the Amazon world there's a lot in flux in retail.

  8. #358

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Despite the protest from Penn Square, today this project was passed unanimously by city council.

  9. #359

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    I really think Penn Square is overthinking it. Penn Square will still have tenants seeking a more traditional mall setting. Plus, it has anchor spots, which may allow for a Nordstrom or the like to come in, if the current ones fail (JCP). This development won't have that ability. They should pressure Simon to add on to the mall. It is plenty busy, and does well, financially. I don't see why they can't expand it and add a new garage to replace the lost parking. Rather than protesting, try growing.

    As for Oak, I love the development. Maybe the name will change, but that isn't going to kill the development. I can't wait to hear some of the tenants they already have signed up.

  10. #360

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Press release:

    ***************

    Oklahoma City Council Approves Rezoning Request for OAK

    Walkable, mixed-use entertainment district is the first of its kind in the region

    OKLAHOMA CITY (August 13, 2019) –Oklahoma City Council today approved the mixed-use rezoning application for OAK, a 20-acre, experiential mixed-use entertainment district. The vision for the project has been guided by input from neighbors, a national tour of best-in-class mixed-use developments and Ryan McNeill, founder of Veritas.

    “City Council approval is an important milestone for OAK, and we’re thrilled to be one step closer to bringing this transformative development to life,” said McNeill. “OAK is a departure from the typical dining, shopping, working and living that Oklahoma City’s residents are accustomed to, and we’re honored to have the opportunity to introduce the community to a walkable, vertically integrated mixed-use destination unlike anything in the region.”

    OAK will weave together 250,000-square-feet of first-to-market retailers, restaurants and entertainment concepts; 200,000-square-feet of Class A office; 60,000-square-feet of loft office; 400 residences; a 140-key hotel; and a 7,000-square-foot greenspace designed for community activations, such as outdoor concerts, seasonal events and more. Featuring more than two miles of sidewalks, OAK will emphasize wellness, greenspace and walkability. Through its name and other design elements, the project will play homage to its collection of sixty-year-old live oak trees that anchor the site.

    Rising at the corner of Pennsylvania Avenue and the Northwest Expressway, OAK is located at 5101 North Pennsylvania Ave., just south of Nichols Hills. McNeill recognizes the site as, “the only parcel of land in the region capable of supporting a project of this vertically integrated mixed-use scale and density.” The project is expected to create 1,200 jobs and generate $130 million annually in revenue for the city.

    OAK’s design team includes Nelson Wakefield Beasley, an architecture firm known for its approach to designing immersive mixed-use destinations, and Site Solutions, a landscape architecture and land planning firm that specializes in placemaking. Retail and office leasing for OAK is well underway, as innovative businesses and retail concepts continue to demand space in dense, mixed-use environments. Veritas is represented locally by CBRE brokers Stuart Graham and Mark Inman for retail leasing while Amy Maclaren, Michael Nagy and Elizabeth Herman work national retail accounts. Vicki and Ben Knotts with Newmark | Levy Strange Beffort lead the office leasing efforts for the project.

    Earlier this summer, Oklahoma City Planning Commission unanimously approved the plan for OAK, noting the close coordination Veritas maintained with the surrounding neighborhood. For instance, last week Veritas invited local residents to a Brand Showcase event. Veritas shared the story of OAK’s brand, the latest renderings and project updates, while also asking for community feedback.

    “The neighborhood’s advocacy is invaluable to our team, and we want to ensure they are informed throughout every step of the development process. We’re also fortunate to have the unwavering support of local city officials, most notably Planning Commissioner Powers and Councilmember Cooper,” continues McNeill. “With OAK, our ultimate goal is to create a vibrant destination with special ties to Oklahoma City, giving the community an inviting, energetic place to come together and enjoy new experiences.”

  11. #361

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    cant wait for this to start construction work and demolition

  12. #362

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Is there a groundbreaking date?

  13. #363

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny d View Post
    I really think Penn Square is overthinking it. Penn Square will still have tenants seeking a more traditional mall setting. Plus, it has anchor spots, which may allow for a Nordstrom or the like to come in, if the current ones fail (JCP).
    It's really the large department store anchors that have been hurt the most. I don't see demand for large anchor spots returning soon, unless they can successfully lobby for government incentives to compete with those given to Amazon. I think they typically get good leases as anchors, but even that hasn't seemed to save them.

    But I agree they are over worried about it. I think, in general, it will just bring more shoppers to the area and could actually help increase traffic at the mall. The connection between the two does suck, but most retail here is poorly connected. If people will put up with a retail corridor layout like Memorial, I think they won't think much of crossing the expressway to go to both Penn Square and OAK. It'd still be more efficient than shopping on Memorial, anyway, even if it could be a lot better if they worked together.

  14. #364

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Is there a groundbreaking date?
    There is still work to be done...

    They have to get some easements closed and a bunch of other things.

    I wouldn't expect to see any demolition for a while yet.

  15. #365

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Do you know if it's fully financed?

  16. #366

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Quote Originally Posted by BDP View Post
    Do you know if it's fully financed?
    I believe so.

  17. #367

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Quote Originally Posted by stlokc View Post
    I'm certainly thrilled to see this project progressing. Two thumbs up!

    But to address a topic from upthread, I'm not surprised at all that Penn Square would be against this development. Enclosed malls are in trouble. Penn Square has been somewhat insulated from that in OKC because of location, momentum and tenant mix. I doubt Penn Square is in deep trouble at the moment but they can't like added competition. BC Clark is moving to Classen Curve. I could certainly envision some of the mall's higher-end tenants seeking a move to this location when it is built. The likes of J. Crew etc. If those tenants don't move, they might at least be able to threaten a move to obtain rent concessions from the mall. I know we all would like to see brand new retailers come in, but the experience with Classen Curve already has demonstrated that it's a slow process. In the Amazon world there's a lot in flux in retail.
    But the thing is, Penn Square could reinvest in itself and add more space/parking.

    We have malls here (Alderwood Mall, Northgate Mall, Bellevue Square, Southcenter Mall) each of whom were similar in design to Penn (particularly Alderwood in size) but changed in recent years adding lots of additional retail that faces outward. Instead of having Cheesecake Factory as a separate building, it's built as an addition to the mall "complex" with it's own facade and doors, usually with several more retail as well - so the mall itself gets bigger and the design is refreshed taking advantage of both the 'traditional' indoor mall and the new push for outdoor/lifestyle centers.

    Penn could do this (and should), and they also could go the Tyson's Corner model and wrap the entire mall in a garage. Lots of options that Penn could and should take, to take advantage of the new shopping model - adding lifestyle components to their already successful but AGING traditional indoor experience.

    the new Alderwood Mall - Lynnwood, WA (north Seattle metro)
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    note in the last pic that they tore down the old Sears and rebuilt that and the entire mall just about with lifestyle elements/additions, and rebuilt the food court). Macy's and Nordstrom both also refreshed their facades and garages were added, JC Penny's is the only, original design as is that side of the mall. You can see the original Nordstrom in the last pic - horrible looking. ...

    LAYOUT - you can see the original JC Penney's sandwiched on the left between two new parking garages. See new lifestyle elements added on the upper right, SEARS was on the right but was torn down. Lower left is the new food court which fronts LOWES theatre and more lifestyle retail.
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    What's missing are I-5 (would be far right) and WA-522 (would be on the top). Although smaller, Alderwood Mall is situated very similar to Crossroads and -like Crossroads- doesn't have immediate access from the freeways.

    Speaking of Crossroads, Just imagine if they added retail frontage in between their anchor stores - they might still be around today as I do think OKC can support three regional malls (particularly if there aren't as many overlapping stores).
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  18. #368

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    The Oklahoman article about the City Council approval: Mixed-use development rezoning approved over Penn Square Mall objections

    Hight said they were caught by surprise when the rezoning request changed from a 50-foot setback and 35-foot-high limit for buildings facing nearby homes to no setback and a 75-foot height limit. The developers agreed to a 10-foot setback during the planning commission process, and the city council on Tuesday changed the height limit from 75 to 60 feet.
    Does this change from 75 to 60 mean anything for that tallest building in the proposal?

    The council approved the zoning and street alignment after being told by both city planning staff and engineer that the project fits in with the city’s comprehensive plan. The development will also be served by a funded bus rapid transit route, the city’s first.
    Yep, just was I was thinking about it the other day.

  19. #369

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    ^

    That height limit is only for the property immediately adjacent to the bordering homes, not the overall project.

    All those images I posted the other day were the latest/greatest that were shown to the neighbors at a meeting I attended.

    They show an 11-story office building that would be at least 150 feet high.

  20. Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Interesting how they dealt with Penn Sq. I don't think anyone bought the "we didn't know about it" excuse for raising the objection late in the process.

  21. #371

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeepnokc View Post
    Interesting how they dealt with Penn Sq. I don't think anyone bought the "we didn't know about it" excuse for raising the objection late in the process.
    Nope.

    At the same time, Penn Square (and Simon, the owners) pump a ton of money into the city sales tax coffers.

    So, it's important to keep them happy even when they are being a bit ridiculous. Holt did a good job navigating that issue.

  22. #372

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    ^

    That height limit is only for the property immediately adjacent to the bordering homes, not the overall project.

    All those images I posted the other day were the latest/greatest that were shown to the neighbors at a meeting I attended.

    They show an 11-story office building that would be at least 150 feet high.
    Nice! I was worried about too many sops to Nimbys.

  23. #373

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    So how confident and when do you think construction could begin on this project Pete?

  24. #374

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Quote Originally Posted by AlvarezK View Post
    So how confident and when do you think construction could begin on this project Pete?
    I'm very sure this project will happen, but it's going to take time.

    There are still tenants in those office buildings and I'm sure they'll want a good number of tenant commitments before they start any work.

  25. #375

    Default Re: OAK (formerly Penn Central)

    Any updates on this as of yet Pete?

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