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  1. #26

  2. #27

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    From the Journal Record:

    Discount deluge: Can Tulsa handle three new outlet malls?

    By: Kirby Lee Davis The Journal Record October 20, 20140

    TULSA – Tulsa may soon provide a national testing ground for the vitality of outlet malls.

    Horizon Group Properties, developer of the Outlet Shoppes at Oklahoma City and 11 other sites across the U.S., will unveil plans Wednesday for a 90-store center in east Tulsa.

    Media advisories foreshadowing Horizon Group’s announcement provided few advance details on this project, which could debut in 2017. Past discussions have placed the mixed-use development near the crossing of Interstate 44 and I-244, less than 5 miles from where Woodmont Outlets plans to build the 348,490-square-foot Cherokee Outlets beside Catoosa’s Hard Rock Casino and Hotel.

    Woodmont announced that $80 million project in September, one month after Simon Property Group surprised an International Council of Shopping Centers audience in Oklahoma City with talk of building a 300,000-plus-square-foot outlet mall in west Tulsa. Some executives said that project, targeted for the northeast corner of 61st Street and U.S. Highway 75, could open as quickly as the spring of 2016, the same year as the planned Woodmont center.

    All of this has some Oklahoma real estate professionals questioning whether a market with less than 1 million residents can support two outlet centers, much less three.

    “I think it’s very interesting that all three of them are looking at doing something,” said Jim Parrack, a senior vice president of retail with Price Edwards and Co. of Oklahoma City. “It’s going to be interesting to see which one of them happens, and if it succeeds.”

    But such concerns overlook the explosive growth outlet centers have seen over the last decade. Forty such projects have opened since 2006 in North America, compared to one traditional regional mall, according to a March report by Value Retail News, the ICSC’s outlet-focused industry arm. Eleven of those outlet projects opened last year, with eight phase-1 efforts planned for this year and 47 more on the books to open through 2016.

    With three in the works, Tulsa has joined a small, select group seeing head-on competition among developers, said VRN Editor-in-Chief Linda Humphers.

    Mark S. Rooney, a senior associate with CB Richard Ellis of Oklahoma, wondered whether the industry supported enough outlet retailers to fill out three such projects. But Humphers said the numbers would surprise people.

    The VRN survey showed 368 different chains vying for such positions, up from 322 at the end of 2012, although the number of actual stores in operation fell from 14,793 to 12,796. Average sales among this year’s 46 responding chains came in at $397.76 per square foot. Rents reported by 29 responding chains averaged $33.72 per square foot.

    One reason for this growth and optimism comes from experiences seen in Oklahoma City. Since the Shoppes at Oklahoma City opened in August 2011, Parrack said Penn Square Mall and Quail Springs Mall have charted annual sales growth even as the outlet mall expanded.

    “They haven’t had that negative effect that they historically thought they would,” Parrack said.

    That parallels national trends, Humphers said, noting that outlet chains quote an average price discount of 38 percent.

    “You have different shoppers for different shopping venues,” she said Monday. “Not everybody who shops at Wal-Mart is going to shop at an outlet center or a Sak’s Fifth Avenue. Not everybody who shops at a Coach outlet store is going to shop at a Coach retail store. Many of the retailers have found they have very little crossover shopping.”

    That could even lead to a few outlet-oriented retailers placing more than one store in Tulsa, Humphers said, although she doubted it would be many. In the few markets that have seen more than one project opening, she said some have attracted a mix of outlet and traditional retailers.

    The Tulsa proposals seem to anticipate this. Monday’s media announcement said the Horizon project would include not just outlet shops, but also 355,000 square feet of land for restaurants, hotels and other retail. The Cherokee proposal includes a small casino.

    “They could make decisions for reasons other than normal real estate investments,” Parrack noted of the tribal project.

    With many outlet shoppers coming from 30 to 90 miles away, some analysts questioned the proposed Tulsa locations, too. Rooney gave a possible advantage to Simon’s targeted site along U.S. Highway 75, just north of the popular Tulsa Hills shopping center. City planners say that corridor has charted more diverse growth than any in the metro area since the 2008 recession.

    Simon, owner of Tulsa’s Woodland Hills Mall, also comes into this proposed venture as one of North America’s most experienced outlet developers. It operates 69 outlet centers in the U.S.

    Other Tulsa brokers weighed the intersections of two interstates and the busy U.S. Highway 169 as a possible benefit to Horizon, vs. the heavy traffic drawn by Hard Rock. The Cherokees also plan to build a high-end entertainment district alongside the outlet shops.

    “One outlet would definitely not hurt Woodland Hills or the other mall,” said Parrack. “Common sense would tell you that any more than one would be somewhat of a risk. Two might be a possibility, and you would think three would be too many.”

    Humphers pointed to a surprise Tulsa victor in all this.

    “The real nice restaurants are going to do really well as the developers bring them (possible tenants) to town to look at their site,” she said of the pre-leasing battle.

  3. #28

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    From the Journal Record:

    Shopping for assistance: Outlet mall developers ask for public help

    By: Kirby Lee Davis The Journal Record October 22, 2014

    TULSA – Horizon Group Properties and Sooner Investment unveiled plans Wednesday for more than $120 million in east Tulsa commercial development, including an outlet mall. But the plan will not move forward without taxpayer help, said Horizon CEO and President Gary Skoien.

    Skoien said his company has been in negotiations with the city for more than a year over road access and storm-water management. He did not disclose the amounts of money that have been discussed.

    “It takes everybody to pull this off,” said Sooner Investment President Robert Stearns, whose firm succeeded in winning a tax-increment financing district a decade ago for the Tulsa Hills shopping center. That west Tulsa project surprised many observers since its 2008 opening, expanding through the recession to generate more than 1 million square feet of new retail space.

    “We appreciate your support and we know you’ll be glad you did,” Stearns said, forecasting similar success for Horizon’s proposed $80 million Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa.

    Skoien, of Rosemont, Illinois-based Horizon, unveiled multiple renderings of an upscale, 90-store, 355,000-square-foot outlet mall that would fill 70 acres near the eastern junction of Interstate 44 and I-244. Taking cues from Tulsa’s rich Art Deco heritage, Skoien said the property would include courtyards, playgrounds a food pavilion and water feature, with a 25-acre lake planned outside the property.

    “It’s not going to be your run-of-the-mill outlet,” he said. “It’s not going to be like what you’ve seen in many places before. It’s going to be really special. It’s going to ignite development in this whole area.”

    That would start with the neighboring land. Stearns said Sooner, which owns a stake in Horizon’s targeted property and about 100 adjoining acres, would build a neighboring $50 million-plus full-service hotel beside the lake, similar to a $72 million Embassy Suites it developed in Norman in 2007.

    Stearns projected that this Admiral Center development would attract numerous other restaurants and retail to fill the adjoining land and neighboring properties – if the city approves incentives to launch the whole effort.

    “I don’t think, in the last 10 years, there’s been an outlet center built in the U.S. that didn’t have some sort of assistance with the local government,” said Skoien, whose company developed the Outlet Shoppes at Oklahoma City.

    That property, which Skoien said draws about 15 to 20 percent of its business from the Tulsa area, has expanded twice since its 2011 opening.

    Oklahoma City provided $8 million in infrastructure improvements for that center.

    Forty outlet malls have opened in North America since 2006, compared to a single traditional regional mall over the same time period, according to a March report by trade publication Value Retail News. Eleven outlets opened last year, leading to eight phase-one efforts planned for 2014 and 47 more on the books to open through 2016.

    “If we get everything squared with the city, we’d like to be open at the latest in early 2017, maybe late 2016,” he said.

    Three Tulsa city councilmen attended the Wednesday afternoon press conference at City Hall. District 6 Councilor Byron “Skip” Steele praised the proposed project for helping bring development to a long-struggling part of Tulsa. By attracting shoppers from 60 to 90 miles away, he said, it could also reverse suburb siphoning trends and bring some retail dollars back to Tulsa.

    With its interstate access and close proximity to Tulsa International Airport, Skoien praised the east Tulsa location as the best of three outlet mall sites being discussed for Tulsa.

    “It’s no secret that there’s more than one outlet center that’s been discussed in the press or the public the past few months, but there’s no doubt in my mind that this outlet center is going to be the best designed, the best location, and provide the best opportunities to the state of Oklahoma,” he said.

    Last month, Woodmont Outlets announced plans to build the $80 million, 348,490-square-foot Cherokee Outlets beside Catoosa’s Hard Rock Casino and Hotel, less than 5 miles east of the Horizon site. The Woodmont effort would go up next year alongside a new Cherokee Nation Entertainment retail district.

    Simon Property Group also has announced plans for a 300,000-plus-square-foot outlet mall in west Tulsa a mile north of Tulsa Hills at the northeast corner of 61st Street and U.S. Highway 75.

    Skoien downplayed prospects that all three would advance.

    “There’s not going to be two outlet centers or three outlet centers in Tulsa, just like there’s not going to be another outlet center in Oklahoma City,” he said. “The cities are of a size that can really support only one outlet center.”

    But Skoien acknowledged competitive pressures in trying to negotiate tenants for his project, which led to another caveat on starting construction: pre-leasing 60 percent or more of the space.

    “Competition is competition,” he said. “We’ve had a lot of tenants that say they prefer our site the best. Some of them said it before the Cherokee site was announced. We’re working through that whole thing. By the end of the day I think we’ll win the beauty contest.”

    With its ability to attract customers from northeastern Arkansas, Skoien projected that the Tulsa outlet mall would open with $120 million to $130 million in annual sales. That compares to $130 million predicted for Oklahoma City this year.

    Skoien projected that building the Shoppes at Tulsa would fuel 800 to 1,000 construction jobs. Operations would create another 1,200 jobs, with 1,600 during the holiday season.

    “Over 15 years it’s going to generate about $94 million of sales tax revenue to the city,” he said.

  4. #29

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    Update from the Tulsa World

    Officials unveiled plans Wednesday afternoon for an $80 million upscale outlet mall and retail development in east Tulsa, which they said would generate 1,200 permanent jobs and nearly $95 million in sales tax revenue across 15 years.

    The announcement marked the third such outlet mall development in the Tulsa metro area to go public in recent months — the others being a premium outlet shopping and entertainment district at the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino Tulsa and an upscale mall to be located near U.S. 75 and 61st Street, just north of the Tulsa Hills development.

    However, Skoien said he thinks his project — The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa — will become the only outlet mall in the Tulsa region. Skoien said he guarantees that just one will be built in Tulsa, noting that a scenario in which multiple outlet malls are in the same area almost never plays out because of the huge investment and risks involved.





    - Developer of proposed $80 million east Tulsa outlet mall banks on being only one - Tulsa World: Retail

  5. #30

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    Not bad. I like the art deco touches in the renderings; would be a nice addition to Tulsa.

  6. Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    Id stick my bet on an East Tulsa site far more than NW or far East (Catoosa). The closer you are to people, the more likely they are to shop there. This actually looks like it would be a plus for the city...not all of them can say that.

  7. #32

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    I know they're just outlet malls, but compared to some others I've seen and the renderings put forth for this one in Tulsa, OKC really got the short end of the stick with our outlet mall design. Of course, the location isn't exactly known for awesome design, but damn.

  8. #33

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    I too would bet on the East Tulsa one the most. It's a good location. Looks like they are the furthest along too, seeing how they already have renderings up.

    Once the more popular retailers start committing to one, the other outlets will eventually die out.

  9. #34
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    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    Quote Originally Posted by Hemingstein View Post
    I know they're just outlet malls, but compared to some others I've seen and the renderings put forth for this one in Tulsa, OKC really got the short end of the stick with our outlet mall design. Of course, the location isn't exactly known for awesome design, but damn.
    OKC one is almost identical to the one I visited in the Seattle area.

  10. #35

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    Quote Originally Posted by bombermwc View Post
    Id stick my bet on an East Tulsa site far more than NW or far East (Catoosa). The closer you are to people, the more likely they are to shop there. This actually looks like it would be a plus for the city...not all of them can say that.
    The other one is South West, not NW, and it's planned between I-44 and 61st on US-75 a mile from Tulsa Hills and being built by Simon. This is the one that most people think will win. The Cherokees will probably build theirs too. It's the East Tulsa one that's asking for TIF money that's likely to be left out.

  11. #36

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    OKC one is almost identical to the one I visited in the Seattle area.
    Yep. Looks like every outlet mall in Orlando.
    The truth is never embarrassed by honest inquiry.

  12. #37

  13. Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    it may be a land issue that may require more than one outlet location. But if not, I'd think the outlet furthest to the east would be the best, as it would be more of a regional draw and be furthest away from its competition, OKC. Regional shoppers might not want to shop at an outlet mall in dense E Tulsa, and there are already regular malls in the facility - adding to competition.

    A mall in Catoosa would draw from AR, SW MO, S KS, and NE OK. That's quite an area and far enough away from existing retail submarkets not to cannibalize it. I believe this is why OKC's Outlet is in the far west (and Seattle's outlet is in the far North), far away from existing submarkets thereby creating a new one and expanding the overall market; while also being close/central to the greater region (Vancouver for the Seattle outlet, W TX and OK for OKC outlet).
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  14. #39

  15. #40

  16. Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    I like far less than the art-deco one. This looks similar to the horrible design of the Jenks aquarium. Some weird mix between barn and the alps. And talk about higher exterior/roof prices for construction with this model. Not a very wise plan.

  17. #42

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    Quote Originally Posted by bombermwc View Post
    I like far less than the art-deco one. This looks similar to the horrible design of the Jenks aquarium. Some weird mix between barn and the alps. And talk about higher exterior/roof prices for construction with this model. Not a very wise plan.
    I agree. I liked the other one far better than what is now proposed.

  18. #43

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    They're both being proposed, just in different locations. I hope the other one gets built as it would (at least temporarily) preserve the area around Turkey Mountain.

  19. #44

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    Quote Originally Posted by ZYX2 View Post
    They're both being proposed, just in different locations. I hope the other one gets built as it would (at least temporarily) preserve the area around Turkey Mountain.
    Ah, I thought they were the same ones for some reason.

  20. #45

  21. #46

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    After a lot of public complaints and a unhappy city council Simon has pulled the zoning request for the outlet mall next to Turkey Mountain. The Outlet Shops will now be built in Jenks on the west bank of the River north of the Creek Turnpike. Right by the location of the proposed 103rd St Dam. The center is set to open in the spring of 2017.

    http://www.tulsafrontier.com/develop...rkey-mountain/
    Outlet mall zoning plans scrapped for site near Turkey Mountain - Tulsa World: Government

  22. #47

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    As an aside, I really like what the Tulsa Frontier is doing. And I'm glad to see Turkey Mountain won't have an outlet mall near.

  23. #48

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bard View Post
    As an aside, I really like what the Tulsa Frontier is doing. And I'm glad to see Turkey Mountain won't have an outlet mall near.
    I think everyone is happy with the mall project at Turkey Mountain dying. I just wish the City of Tulsa and Simon were creative enough to get the mall built on the west bank of the river at 23rd Street instead of 103rd Street.

  24. #49

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    Im not sure if this is the same outlet mall or if the one by Turkey Mountain was shuttered entirely due to the local opposition. At any rate, the Tulsa Premium Outlets in Jenks is moving forward and should open by 2021.

    https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/...207690287.html

  25. #50

    Default Re: The Outlet Shoppes at Tulsa

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Im not sure if this is the same outlet mall or if the one by Turkey Mountain was shuttered entirely due to the local opposition. At any rate, the Tulsa Premium Outlets in Jenks is moving forward and should open by 2021.

    https://www.tulsaworld.com/business/...207690287.html
    I am pretty sure it is the same project. Can't believe its been 5 years.

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