Murder or Self Defense? One punch, one kill - but what led up to it........

[BBatesokc]

Interesting story. I'm certain there is more that has not been reported, but simply based on this report, I don't see how this isn't self-defense.

KFOR: One dead after being punched once in club fight, man arrested for murder (link)

"OKLAHOMA CITY – The death of a local man has many people asking if it is a case of murder or self-defense.

Authorities say the victim, 27-year-old Jeremy Rafford, died after being hit one time in the face in a bar fight.

It happened at the Cove Club near SE 15th and I-35.

The alleged suspect is a former Marine and did not have a criminal history.

Witnesses at the club say the suspect was actually defending himself after being licked in the face by Rafford.

“I’m singing like 3 lines of my song and I hear crash, bang, boom,” said Christina Woods.

Woods says the victim helped instigate the fight by licking the alleged suspect, 32-year-old David Bales, in the face.

“That’s when David punched him one time and he hit the ground,” said Woods.

“David hit him and next thing you know he’s in jail for murder for basically defending himself,” said Martin Hobbs.

Hobbs owns the property where fight took place.

He says after the fight, Bales left the club and went home.

However, he came back after hearing about the death.

“They called him up and said the guy passed away and he came back to talk to the cops and told them he was just drinking a beer and defending himself,” said Hobbs.

“He was trying to defend himself because this guy was in his face,” said Woods.

For their part, police can only say they’re still investigating the circumstances of the fight.

Those at the club all sympathize with the victim’s family, but say what happened is a clear case of self-defense.

“David was absolutely defending himself,” said Hobbs.

“He didn’t purposely kill this guy. It was self-defense. He was defending himself to someone who licked his face,” said Woods.

The alleged suspect has not officially been charged with murder but remains in jail without bond.

Whether or not he’s charged with murder or a lesser charge will be up to the district attorney to decide."

[Of Sound Mind]

Self defense

[Jersey Boss]

I wonder if the victim had some connections, such as a CI?

[Filthy]

Self defense? The guy licked him...

You are correct, in the fact that there is probably more to this story...but its not surprising to see yet another "former" marine/military personell, in the news for being violent/assaulting someone. I'm sure PTSD will be used as his defense and he will walk away scott free.

[BBatesokc]

Reminds me of an unfortunate case and trial I sat through a few years ago. A guy at the Porthole club stabbed a bully once in the chest - killing him. It was absolutely self-defense. First trial was deadlocked. Defendant was so desperate to get out of jail he pled to manslaughter and was released. Not justice at all.

[Of Sound Mind]

Self defense? The guy licked him...

You are correct, in the fact that there is probably more to this story...but its not surprising to see yet another "former" marine/military personell, in the news for being violent/assaulting someone. I'm sure PTSD will be used as his defense and he will walk away scott free.

The lick is an assault. He provoked the confrontation. The marine was defending himself from the assault. His reasonable defense — ONE punch — just happened to be more potent than most.

[Filthy]

The lick is an assault. He provoked the confrontation. The marine was defending himself from the assault. His reasonable defense — ONE punch — just happened to be more potent than most.

Understood. I will remember that, when my 3 year old neice licks my elbow. I will be sure to bludgeon her to death with my ONE PUNCH. Because afterall..she licked me...so, she assaulted me first.

[mkjeeves]

The lick is an assault. He provoked the confrontation. The marine was defending himself from the assault. His reasonable defense — ONE punch — just happened to be more potent than most.

Could have done a lot of other reasonable things using force that wasn't well beyond the apparent threat he was presented with, pushed him away, open handed slap, etc. I don't think the law is on the puncher's side but we don't really know all the facts. What led up to the lick? Threatening words exchanged or just being annoying?

That said, depending on circumstances I probably would have hit the guy too.

[BBatesokc]

Self defense? The guy licked him...

You are correct, in the fact that there is probably more to this story...but its not surprising to see yet another "former" marine/military personell, in the news for being violent/assaulting someone. I'm sure PTSD will be used as his defense and he will walk away scott free.

Ummm, if it happened as reported, the Marine was simply defending himself. While you may welcome or otherwise brush off a stranger walking up and licking you, I for one would react the same as this man - unfortunately I highly doubt a single punch from myself would result in death. A lick is an assault every bit as much as a fist blow would have been.

[mkjeeves]

Ummm, if it happened as reported, the Marine was simply defending himself. While you may welcome or otherwise brush off a stranger walking up and licking you, I for one would react the same as this man - unfortunately I highly doubt a single punch from myself would result in death. A lick is an assault every bit as much as a fist blow would have been.

Deadly force is not a reasonable response to every assault.

[BBatesokc]

Understood. I will remember that, when my 3 year old neice licks my elbow. I will be sure to bludgeon her to death with my ONE PUNCH. Because afterall..she licked me...so, she assaulted me first.

Seriously, you equate your 3 year old niece licking your elbow as equivalent to a grown man approaching another man in a bar and licking them? If so, your family functions must be quite the show.

[BBatesokc]

Deadly force is not a reasonable reaction to every assault.

A single punch leveled on someone who is technically assaulting you is not considered deadly force. There is no indication or expectation a single blow will be deadly.

[mkjeeves]

A single punch leveled on someone who is technically assaulting you is not considered deadly force.

The facts as we know them in this case say otherwise.

[Filthy]

Seriously, you equate your 3 year old niece licking your elbow as equivalent to a grown man approaching another man in a bar and licking them? If so, your family functions must be quite the show.

I appreciate the concerted effort in trying to fabricate and/or deflect the topic at hand. I will do my best to slow it down for you, so you can digest it. A grown man, licking another man..is NO MORE harmful than a young child licking someone. There is NO THREAT. You cannot go around "killing" people just because you are uncomfortable with something.

[kevinpate]

The facts as [some] [interpret] them in this case say otherwise.

Fixed that for you.

As for myself, I'd prefer to know a bit more information before doing a back flip off a rock pile of inadequate information and deciding where I want to land. There is a whole lot that may or may not have occurred in a second or three between a lick and a landed punch.

[mkjeeves]

Fixed that for you.

As for myself, I'd prefer to know a bit more information before doing a back flip off a rock pile of inadequate information and deciding where I want to land. There is a whole lot that may or may not have occurred in a second or three between a lick and a landed punch.

I said that.

Some might want to review "eggshell skull" while we wait on the justice system to grind this up.

[Martin]

Some might want to review "eggshell skull" while we wait on the justice system to grind this up.

doesn't the concept of 'eggshell skull' apply more to civil law than to criminal law? -M

[mkjeeves]

doesn't the concept of 'eggshell skull' apply more to civil law than to criminal law? -M

I wondered that myself until I Googled it to see.

"The rule is applied in tort and criminal cases involving a plaintiff in a vulnerable, weakened state or suffering from a medical condition."

Eggshell Skull Law & Legal Definition

[Roger S]

. A grown man, licking another man..is NO MORE harmful than a young child licking someone. There is NO THREAT.

Hmmm... The human mouth is one of the most septic parts of the human body. So unless you don't find hepatitis, hiv, or any other number of communicable diseases a threat. I guess you are right.

[Martin]

I wondered that myself until I Googled it to see.

gotcha... that makes sense. still, does that apply criminally if somebody is taking otherwise lawful action? -M

[mkjeeves]

gotcha... that makes sense. still, does that apply criminally if somebody is taking otherwise lawful action? -M

"lawful action" is still undetermined but my guess is it would not apply if the punch were considered lawful.

[kelroy55]

I don't know all the facts of this case but I can say if a stranger walked up to me in a bar, or anywhere else, and licked me in the face chances are they would get punched.

[Jeepnokc]

Some argue that Mixon's actions were self defense as he was slapped first. May be self defense but the self defense should be in relation to the force presented. There is still a lot of questions that need to be asked. For example, I would want to know what this guy did in the marines (ie...are his hands lethal weapons due to his training) as well as want to know any medical conditions that victim may have had before making a determination of whether the one punch was in relation to the harm presented.

[Martin]

my guess is it would not apply if the punch were considered lawful.

that's what i'm thinking. -M

[rezman]

I appreciate the concerted effort in trying to fabricate and/or deflect the topic at hand. I will do my best to slow it down for you, so you can digest it. A grown man, licking another man..is NO MORE harmful than a young child licking someone. There is NO THREAT. You cannot go around "killing" people just because you are uncomfortable with something.

Yes, but unlike your three year old, you don't know where that adult man's tongue has been.