Germany's renewable energy

[kelroy55]

Renewable energy generators delivered 28 per cent of Germany's power production during the first half of this year, according to new figures, marking the latest milestone for the country as it continues its high-profile Energiewende low carbon transition.

Analysis by the Fraunhofer Institute for Solar Energy published this week reveals that wind and solar power projects significantly increased their levels of generation in the first half of 2014, compared with the same period last year, thanks to a combination of mild temperatures, high winds and increased capacity.

In the first half of the year, solar and wind power plants met around 17 per cent of Germany's electricity demand - or 45 TWh. A further 11 per cent was provided by biomass and hydropower plants, meaning that renewables met more than a quarter of power demand.

Coal generation down as Germany breaks yet another renewables record - 13 Aug 2014 - News from BusinessGreen

[Pete]

^

I saw a documentary about this and it made the point that the energy costs to the end users were significantly higher.

Considering the biggest users of electricity are commercial operations, until the cost comes down I doubt you'll see wide-spread implementation in the U.S.

[kelroy55]

That's a good point and it's a good starting point. I watched a show on the Science Channel last night about using fuel made from algae. Once they find a way to make it in larger and more cost effective amounts it should take off.

[Pete]

IIRC, the increase to German users was at least 50% higher and their rates were already high.

Believe they are now the highest in Europe, which is saying something.

[HangryHippo]

^

I saw a documentary about this and it made the point that the energy costs to the end users were significantly higher.

Considering the biggest users of electricity are commercial operations, until the cost comes down I doubt you'll see wide-spread implementation in the U.S.

Did it go into detail as to what caused the end users' costs to be that much higher? Were the transmission costs higher? Construction?

[Pete]

Yes, the reason for the higher costs is that a big part of the renewable energy comes from solar, which simply costs more money to extract energy than comparable coal-fueled plants. It's the same reason solar just hasn't caught on in big way in the U.S.

Generally speaking, we have cheap electricity in this country and you aren't going to get the big companies and most politicians to double their rates for clean alternatives.

[Servicetech571]

Keep in mind the average price for power in germany is 36 cents per KWH as of 2013. Not sure how widespread smartmeters or TOU rates are over there.

[bluedogok]

Germany
Population: 80,716,000 (2014 estimate)
Area: 137,847 sq mi
Density: 583/sq mi

United States
Population: 318,577,000 (2014 estimate)
Area: 3,717,813 sq mi
Density: 88.6/sq mi

For a state level comparison.
Texas
Population: 26,448,193 (2013 estimate)
Area: 268,581 sq mi
Density: 98.1/sq mi

Where people want alternatives to be built is usually not near the population centers it would serve and line losses for long distance transmission is the big problem for efficiently delivering as much power from the generation source to the distribution point.

[Servicetech571]

Germany
Population: 80,716,000 (2014 estimate)
Area: 137,847 sq mi
Density: 583/sq mi

United States
Population: 318,577,000 (2014 estimate)
Area: 3,717,813 sq mi
Density: 88.6/sq mi

For a state level comparison.
Texas
Population: 26,448,193 (2013 estimate)
Area: 268,581 sq mi
Density: 98.1/sq mi

Where people want alternatives to be built is usually not near the population centers it would serve and line losses for long distance transmission is the big problem for efficiently delivering as much power from the generation source to the distribution point.

Texas is TWICE the size of germany !!

[kelroy55]

Yes, the reason for the higher costs is that a big part of the renewable energy comes from solar, which simply costs more money to extract energy than comparable coal-fueled plants. It's the same reason solar just hasn't caught on in big way in the U.S.

Generally speaking, we have cheap electricity in this country and you aren't going to get the big companies and most politicians to double their rates for clean alternatives.

Hopefully when the technology gets better the cost will come down. I think all new technology is pricy, look at DVD players. I paid a small fortune for my 1st one and now you can get them for $30.

[bluedogok]

Part of the problem is paying for R&D costs to get the technology more efficient, then it is appropriated and those who develop the improved technology can't recoup their costs because the Chinese reverse engineer to produce a cheap clone, flood the market bankrupting the innovators and ultimately stalling the development of the technology. Solar and wind technology still isn't efficient enough for large scale power production in comparison to existing coal or natural gas. It is still a great option for individual power or in off-the-grid locations.

Maybe staying with the photovoltaic panels instead of going with the mass of mirrors and the "power tower" is the way to go.
NBC News - 'Streamers': Birds Fried in Midair by Solar Plant, Feds Say

[Servicetech571]

The problem is the enormous amount of KWH consumption we have in the USA. Nobody uses more KWH per capita than we do in the USA. 4 and 5 ton Residential Central AC systems are unheard of in most parts of the world.