OG&E Energy Center

[okclee]

Devon seems to do everything in their power to prevent their employees fron interacting with their downtown environment. I'm hoping OG&E is a better downtown resident.

LOL !! You step out there sometimes and this is one time.

[ljbab728]

Steve's update.

http://m.newsok.com/development-bids...rticle/5004904

The Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority is moving forward with plans to solicit development bids for the downtown block that is home to several major arts groups and the annual Festival of the Arts, but is also cautioning developers those tenants’ futures must be considered in any proposal.

[Spartan]

Devon seems to do everything in their power to prevent their employees fron interacting with their downtown environment. I'm hoping OG&E is a better downtown resident.

This isn't about Devon or Clayco or OG+E. This is about the city which has no standards and thus developers can not be blamed for what they can get away with.

[bchris02]

This isn't about Devon or Clayco or OG+E. This is about the city which has no standards and thus developers can not be blamed for what they can get away with.

From Devon's perspective, why would you want to force your employees to go completely out of their way and leave the building rather than take a sky bridge? Companies aren't going to do that just to conform to an urbanist idealism unless the codes require it.

[shawnw]

Devon seems to do everything in their power to prevent their employees fron interacting with their downtown environment. I'm hoping OG&E is a better downtown resident.

I agree with you on many things. This one I'm not so sure. I'd say they pull the public in, with Nebu, with the Christmas stuff in their rotunda. I know I, and many other non-Devon employees enjoy Nebu frequently... so I think there is plenty of devon interaction by consequence.

[_Cramer_]

From Devon's perspective, why would you want to force your employees to go completely out of their way and leave the building rather than take a sky bridge? Companies aren't going to do that just to conform to an urbanist idealism unless the codes require it.

I wish there were more sky bridges around the office buildings and hotels downtown (other than the Cox one). Loved that aspect in Indianapolis, you could get from the convention center to a number of hotels and the mall. Would be nice on those bitter cold days and blistering heat.

[hoya]

Generally skybridges minimize foot traffic on the streets. That's not something you want if you have any desire for street level retail.

[BDP]

From Devon's perspective, why would you want to force your employees to go completely out of their way and leave the building rather than take a sky bridge? Companies aren't going to do that just to conform to an urbanist idealism unless the codes require it.

The motivation would be to create more interaction with the community and the surroundings to foster a better environment which can help in recruiting. People like to work in nice locations, not just nice buildings. I still hear that the biggest problem some of our larger corporations have to deal with is convincing people to consider moving to Oklahoma. Obviously, it's better than it has been in a long time, but it is still a very real issue. Oklahoma's natural environment does not have a lot of appeal relative to other locations. Our best chance to offer better quality of life is to manufacture, through good development, an appealing living environment that mitigates the relative lack of natural attractions.

Now I'm not saying that a well developed urban environment is the only option for a desirable community with good quality of life. But, for many, it is the life they desire. Many also want suburban, ex-urban, and rural living, too. The thing is, we got that. Lots of it. What we're trying to do is create an urban option as well and, obviously, downtown is the best place to do that and we've had a lot of success so far. An urban lifestyle is becoming a real option in Oklahoma City. However, we still have developers that come at some of these projects with an approach that doesn't always contribute to the urban renaissance as much as it could. Now, I have nothing against a company wanting an isolated and self contained environment for their employees. That is appealing to some. However, we have about 600 square miles of land already largely dedicated to that. So, I think it makes total sense to want to see the 2 square miles of urban area we have to be developed in a way that is consistent with what is currently considered the best and most desirable urban elements and that includes encouraging street interaction.

Obviously Devon's needs or desires for its workforce may not lend itself to developing in a way that participates more with the surroundings, which certainly could be a reason why they would not want to force employees to use the street instead of a skybridge. However, you asked why would they want to encourage street interaction more. Well, one reason would be to encourage a better urban environment around their headquarters for their employees to enjoy and for prospective employees to be attracted to. Maybe that's not a priority for them, but I do think the reemergence of urban living as an option in Oklahoma City has contributed to the reversal of net migration numbers here and, at least within our very small urban core, I think we should continue to build upon that in any way we can.

And, I think we should remember that Devon basically agreed tax itself to improve downtown streets and walkability. So, really, why wouldn't they want to encourage their employees to go out and enjoy what they so heavily invested in?

[Just the facts]

And, I think we should remember that Devon basically agreed tax itself to improve downtown streets and walkability. So, really, why wouldn't they want to encourage their employees to go out and enjoy what they so heavily invested in?

In an otherwise very good post, I cringe every time I see this. Devon did NOT agree to tax themselves. They agreed to spend the tax dollars they were already obligated to pay on the public space around their headquarters.

[BDP]

In an otherwise very good post, I cringe every time I see this. Devon did NOT agree to tax themselves. They agreed to spend the tax dollars they were already obligated to pay on the public space around their headquarters.

Weren't they instrumental in the decision as to how that money would be spent? The separate TIF district was created at Nichols's insistence for the purpose of improving the area. So, it would still make sense that they'd want to make development decisions to encourage the use of that public space, but maybe they were only interested in window dressing.

Instead of saying "agreed to tax themselves", I guess I should say "insisted their tax money was used to improve downtown streets and walkability".

[Pete]

^

Yes, they did insist and it was a condition of them building their HQ in downtown OKC.

[Bellaboo]

I think they actually loaned OKC the money for the improvements, at better than bond rates....? IIRC

[Just the facts]

Weren't they instrumental in the decision as to how that money would be spent? The separate TIF district was created at Nichols's insistence for the purpose of improving the area. So, it would still make sense that they'd want to make development decisions to encourage the use of that public space, but maybe they were only interested in window dressing.

Instead of saying "agreed to tax themselves", I guess I should say "insisted their tax money was used to improve downtown streets and walkability".

Sorry for turning this into a Devon discussion but I think it is important to discuss what went well and what didn't go well with Devon as we prepare for another large development in the same area.

Honestly, I don't think the powers that be at Devon knew what they wanted from the neighborhood, or if they did know, they didn't fully understand how to make it happen. P180 is a great project. All the ingredient are there for an interactive and vibrant street - bike lanes (except for in front of Devon mind you), on-street parking (except for in front of Devon mind you), wide sidewalks, street furniture, well defined crosswalks, etc... but what is missing is the actual people themselves.

Devon has 2,000 employees in their building but they gave none of them a reason to go outside and enjoy or take advantage of all the benefits of P180 or MBG. They built a self-contained work place where we were trying to build an open and permeable pedestrian environment. Yes, there are reasons to go to Devon for lunch, but there is no reason for a Devon employee to leave; on-site parking, on-site gym, on-site food - all of which close when Devon employees aren't using it. If Devon had just stuck to the oil and gas business and left fulfilling the needs of daily life to other merchants imagine how many more people would be on the sidewalks, walking by the dress shop or the sidewalk café, or any other downtown retailer. That is what I meant when I said Devon shielded their employees from interacting with the downtown environment.

Now this isn't to say that Devon employees never go out of the building during the day but I'll bet 90% never do. It would be interesting to get an employee count at each exit/entrance and see the percentage that use the parking garage door vs. all the other doors combined.

So in closing, I hope this new development encourages the employees to get out and participate in the City, not just look at it through glass. Downtown OKC is not a herpetarium exhibit at the zoo. It is a petting zoo and the animals want interaction.

[bchris02]

I think the Devon Tower is a world class development and OKC is extremely fortunate to have it. Most cities the size of OKC don't have a skyscraper of the prestige and quality of Devon Tower. Kudos to them for building it.

[PhiAlpha]

Sorry for turning this into a Devon discussion but I think it is important to discuss what went well and what didn't go well with Devon as we prepare for another large development in the same area.

Honestly, I don't think the powers that be at Devon knew what they wanted from the neighborhood, or if they did know, they didn't fully understand how to make it happen. P180 is a great project. All the ingredient are there for an interactive and vibrant street - bike lanes (except for in front of Devon mind you), on-street parking (except for in front of Devon mind you), wide sidewalks, street furniture, well defined crosswalks, etc... but what is missing is the actual people themselves.

Devon has 2,000 employees in their building but they gave none of them a reason to go outside and enjoy or take advantage of all the benefits of P180 or MBG. They built a self-contained work place where we were trying to build an open and permeable pedestrian environment. Yes, there are reasons to go to Devon for lunch, but there is no reason for a Devon employee to leave; on-site parking, on-site gym, on-site food - all of which close when Devon employees aren't using it. If Devon had just stuck to the oil and gas business and left fulfilling the needs of daily life to other merchants imagine how many more people would be on the sidewalks, walking by the dress shop or the sidewalk café, or any other downtown retailer. That is what I meant when I said Devon shielded their employees from interacting with the downtown environment.

Now this isn't to say that Devon employees never go out of the building during the day but I'll bet 90% never do. It would be interesting to get an employee count at each exit/entrance and see the percentage that use the parking garage door vs. all the other doors combined.

So in closing, I hope this new development encourages the employees to get out and participate in the City, not just look at it through glass. Downtown OKC is not a herpetarium exhibit at the zoo. It is a petting zoo and the animals want interaction.

For a design that you say didn't encourage interaction with mbg or the rest of downtown, it's surprising that I see a ton of Devon employees enjoying the park everyday and walking to restaurants outside of their building (As well as driving to Bricktown and midtown).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Just the facts]

No doubt Devon is a world-class building, but the immediate area around it is NOT world-class. That is because a world-class building does not make a world-class neighborhood. I am interested in building world-class neighborhoods. Wheeler Park, at a tiny fraction of the price of Devon Tower, has the makings of a world-class neighborhood and if built anything close to what has been presented so far will appear in more magazines, books, and videos than Devon Tower and Stage Center combined.

[Spartan]

Back to the Stage Center site...

OKC has a historic opportunity to avert a super block on this site, and I believe it's important to the long term environs of the Myriad Garden to prevent new ones and possibly break up old ones.

Instead we are moving toward the opposite, and that is sad.

[shawnw]

it would be nice if the kids from the school could take a mid-block crosswalk at california straight to the park instead of having to walk up to sheridan or down to reno...

[BoulderSooner]

it would be nice if the kids from the school could take a mid-block crosswalk at california straight to the park instead of having to walk up to sheridan or down to reno...

Or they will walk out of the main school entrance (on Sheridan). And walk directly to the park

[shawnw]

Or they will walk out of the main school entrance (on Sheridan). And walk directly to the park

of course. I was thinking if they were in the courtyard, they wouldn't then have to go all the way through the school.

[Rover]

If Devon had just stuck to the oil and gas business and left fulfilling the needs of daily life to other merchants imagine how many more people would be on the sidewalks, walking by the dress shop or the sidewalk café, or any other downtown retailer. That is what I meant when I said Devon shielded their employees from interacting with the downtown environment.

Devon doesn't lock the doors and keep their employees in...there are plenty of ways to leave the building and go elsewhere. Your view of them providing quality services to their employees is "shielding" them is quite interesting. Maybe if there were convenient, quality, affordable alternatives nearby that were marketed aggressively that more would leave the building voluntarily. Your approach of forcing people to participate in YOUR preferred lifestyle by limiting their alternatives is also interesting...instead of people competing for the business in a better way, just design buildings so as to make people spread their business around.

My guess is that if the new SC building includes interesting and quality restaurants, clubs, shops, etc., plenty of Devon employees will frequent them. But, if people don't want your goods, no amount of walking past them on the sidewalk is going to help. Use the carrot, not the stick.

[ljbab728]

Back to the Stage Center site...

OKC has a historic opportunity to avert a super block on this site, and I believe it's important to the long term environs of the Myriad Garden to prevent new ones and possibly break up old ones.

Instead we are moving toward the opposite, and that is sad.

And you know this how? There are absolutely no designs of any kind submitted at this point.

[bombermwc]

Not to mention the fact that breaking a block isn't always in the best interests of walkability or traffic flow. The Stage Center is a perfect example of how retaining the existing SMALL-super block keeps pedestrian traffic flowing through the stone path (assuming they keep it) but pushes traffic to existing intersections and serves to sort of make traveling that particular road less appealing. That means it's safer for pedestrians. With all the talk about wanting downtown to be walkable, we sure to spend a lot of time talking about wanting to put roads in = more crosswalks = longer walk times.

I think you just need to look at each situation individually and not make a blanket statement about restoring the grid. Sometimes it may be better to do so, sometimes it may not. But lets just jump and say just because we didn't restore all of them, that we're going down a dark road. No pun intended.

[DoctorTaco]

Devon has 2,000 employees in their building but they gave none of them a reason to go outside and enjoy or take advantage of all the benefits of P180 or MBG. They built a self-contained work place where we were trying to build an open and permeable pedestrian environment. Yes, there are reasons to go to Devon for lunch, but there is no reason for a Devon employee to leave; on-site parking, on-site gym, on-site food - all of which close when Devon employees aren't using it. If Devon had just stuck to the oil and gas business and left fulfilling the needs of daily life to other merchants imagine how many more people would be on the sidewalks, walking by the dress shop or the sidewalk café, or any other downtown retailer. That is what I meant when I said Devon shielded their employees from interacting with the downtown environment.

Now this isn't to say that Devon employees never go out of the building during the day but I'll bet 90% never do. It would be interesting to get an employee count at each exit/entrance and see the percentage that use the parking garage door vs. all the other doors combined.

Larry Nichols is actually on record that they purposely designed NEBU to be too small to accommodate all the Devon employees so that they would be forced to go out into the community.

Also I can tell you on good account that huge percentages of the staff do not eat there. It is almost considered "uncool." The trend of NEBU serving healthy food has not endeared them to the old school oil-field types. You will see Devon staff eating in other downtown places in abundance. And yes, they are walking there. Too often they are walking there via the skywalks and tunnels, but Devon did not create those monstrosities.

On the other hand every day at NEBU there are dozens or hundreds of non-Devon employees eating there. These people must be coming from somewhere else, as they are not allowed to park in the Devon garage. So could they actually be...walking????

Additionally Devon employees work out and play Ultimate Frisbee in Myriad Gardens (adding to street life and yes, tearing up the grass on the grand lawn). Also more and more Devon people jog around downtown during lunch, additionally adding to street life.

JFF, I think your view from J-ville is a little clouded.

[UnFrSaKn]

I've seen twelve or so Devon employees pull up on Film Row and cross the street to Joeys before.