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  1. #51

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Teo9969 View Post
    At least Texas has Austin.
    Meh, Austin is 86 billion in a state with a 1.648 trillion dollar economy. That's a solid 5%. Suggesting that Texas could fall back on Austin when crude starts to decline is a touch ridiculous. By comparison Lawton in OK is 3%, double Lawton and that's how important Austin is to Texas.

    Texas' economy is very very large.

  2. #52

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Most people in Oklahoma have little to no comprehension of the sheer scale of the Texas oil & NG business and how it dwarfs what we have in Oklahoma.

    But even more lacking in Oklahoma is the low understanding of how Texas has very intelligently (compared to Oklahoma) parlayed their oil & NG wealth into to other successful ventures.

    Texas has continually built great universities. They have the right mix of taxes, incentives and new infrastructure to aid growth and improve standards of living for nearly all who hold an employable college degree.

    Oil & NG will recover IMO in the next 2 or 3 years. If we only had the will Oklahoma could do much the same over time but on a smaller scale.

    It’s all about what we decide our priorities are?

  3. #53

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by ou48A View Post
    It’s all about what we decide our priorities are?
    I agree. I wish the GOP in this state would start working towards bringing the state forward and building a better state for all Oklahomans rather than pandering to special interest groups.

  4. #54

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by ou48A View Post
    Most people in Oklahoma have little to no comprehension of the sheer scale of the Texas oil & NG business and how it dwarfs what we have in Oklahoma.

    But even more lacking in Oklahoma is the low understanding of how Texas has very intelligently (compared to Oklahoma) parlayed their oil & NG wealth into to other successful ventures.


    Texas has continually built great universities. They have the right mix of taxes, incentives and new infrastructure to aid growth and improve standards of living for nearly all who hold an employable college degree.

    Oil & NG will recover IMO in the next 2 or 3 years. If we only had the will Oklahoma could do much the same over time but on a smaller scale.

    It’s all about what we decide our priorities are?
    All true. Texas produces about 10x the amount of O&G as Oklahoma does, and they tax it 3.5x higher than we do. What do you get when you do that? A lot of money to make your state better in edu, quality of life, etc. But in Oklahoma, Devon, Continental, Chesapeake have better lobbyists than education and health advocates. So our lawmakers were cool with giving away any potential for decent gross production taxes. And now we have a billion dollar shortfall.

    And back to that Oklahoman editorial, such BS. To claim that all these tax cuts and tax credit giveaways didnt matter is flat out lying. And OKC's sales tax numbers have only in the last couple months or so have been lower than expected. The state's finances have been bad for years, even with good oil prices and production. Kansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, all of these states are being governed by conservative ideologue dunces who dont have a clue about decent fiscal policy.

  5. #55

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    All true. Texas produces about 10x the amount of O&G as Oklahoma does, and they tax it 3.5x higher than we do. What do you get when you do that? A lot of money to make your state better in edu, quality of life, etc. But in Oklahoma, Devon, Continental, Chesapeake have better lobbyists than education and health advocates. So our lawmakers were cool with giving away any potential for decent gross production taxes. And now we have a billion dollar shortfall.

    And back to that Oklahoman editorial, such BS. To claim that all these tax cuts and tax credit giveaways didnt matter is flat out lying. And OKC's sales tax numbers have only in the last couple months or so have been lower than expected. The state's finances have been bad for years, even with good oil prices and production. Kansas, Louisiana, Oklahoma, all of these states are being governed by conservative ideologue dunces who dont have a clue about decent fiscal policy.
    The other side governed Oklahoma with virtual complete control for about 6 decades and our prosperity rankings were among the lowest in the nation…. If they were interested in our states education they would have done what Texas did many, many decades ago and established an Oil & NG endowment fund. But their history shows they have given into special interest groups, lobbyist and tolerated such people as Jean Stipe in their party…. Oklahomans have firmly rejected this long running corruption and cronyism…


    But it is time to do what is right for the people and that first starts IMHO with getting our educational system on solid ground with good funding and very badly needed reforms that improve efficiencies and the product.


    This is a problem that was caused by decades of neglect and it will take decades to make right!

  6. #56

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    You can't really slam conservatives when democrats ruled for 100 years. And Texas isn't exactly a bastion of liberals, Oklahoma is marginally more conservative than they are.

    Texas' economy is just so much more diverse then ours. Dallas might have the most diverse economy in the nation. It does has the most fortune 500HQs of any metro in the country. Look at the list of fortune 500s there. AT&T, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Exxon, and so on.

    Texas doesn't have a higher quality of life because they tax oil a little higher. They have a higher quality of life because they have an extremely diverse economy with a lot of high paying jobs. They also have the ability to recruit enormous companies to the area. State Farm, Liberty mutual, Toyota are all bringing 5,000+ jobs to the frisco area.

    For as much you can argue we suffer because of our conservatism I could argue Texas' conservatism helps them tremendously. How about the fact they only meet once every two years? Gives them less time to purpose dumb pointless laws, they meet and they have to get down to business right away. That's a conservative principal.

    Also the %of Texas' state government to its overall economy is half of Oklahoma's. Dollar for dollar Texas state government is half the size of OK's. 71 billion/1.65 trillion= 4.3%. Oklahoma is 17.5 billion/185 billion or 9.5% of gdp.

    The larger the government, the higher up the government the less effective and less it works. OKC's government is more effective then OK's and OK's is more effective then the Feds. Texas' gets this, and their state government cuts down on this bloat.

    Texas is just better then OK in a lot of ways. They have a better culture. They are a people of independence, small government, and low regulation, except for when it comes to schools, roads, and police. Oklahoma is like a small government but high personal life regulation government. Which always leads to some stupid social conservative regulation (like banning hoodies) that will do nothing, (which so hypocritical, were the party that's supposed to think, yeah no way government will be able to do that effectively) embarrasses the state, and distracts from the real work of the government.

    Oklahoma should meet for 90 days every two years work on the budget and whatever stupid laws they want to try and pass they can try that if they have time leftover.

  7. #57

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    The first sentence of your post is flawed. You infer that Oklahoma Democrats and conservatives are mutually exclusive. If you think that Oklahoma Democrats are liberal, you need to travel and live out of this region.

  8. #58

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    You can't really slam conservatives when democrats ruled for 100 years. And Texas isn't exactly a bastion of liberals, Oklahoma is marginally more conservative than they are.

    Texas' economy is just so much more diverse then ours. Dallas might have the most diverse economy in the nation. It does has the most fortune 500HQs of any metro in the country. Look at the list of fortune 500s there. AT&T, American Airlines, Southwest Airlines, Exxon, and so on.

    Texas doesn't have a higher quality of life because they tax oil a little higher. They have a higher quality of life because they have an extremely diverse economy with a lot of high paying jobs. They also have the ability to recruit enormous companies to the area. State Farm, Liberty mutual, Toyota are all bringing 5,000+ jobs to the frisco area.

    For as much you can argue we suffer because of our conservatism I could argue Texas' conservatism helps them tremendously. How about the fact they only meet once every two years? Gives them less time to purpose dumb pointless laws, they meet and they have to get down to business right away. That's a conservative principal.

    Also the %of Texas' state government to its overall economy is half of Oklahoma's. Dollar for dollar Texas state government is half the size of OK's. 71 billion/1.65 trillion= 4.3%. Oklahoma is 17.5 billion/185 billion or 9.5% of gdp.

    The larger the government, the higher up the government the less effective and less it works. OKC's government is more effective then OK's and OK's is more effective then the Feds. Texas' gets this, and their state government cuts down on this bloat.

    Texas is just better then OK in a lot of ways. They have a better culture. They are a people of independence, small government, and low regulation, except for when it comes to schools, roads, and police. Oklahoma is like a small government but high personal life regulation government. Which always leads to some stupid social conservative regulation (like banning hoodies) that will do nothing, (which so hypocritical, were the party that's supposed to think, yeah no way government will be able to do that effectively) embarrasses the state, and distracts from the real work of the government.

    Oklahoma should meet for 90 days every two years work on the budget and whatever stupid laws they want to try and pass they can try that if they have time leftover.
    I did read all this but wanted to stop after the first sentence. This isnt 1915, or even 1990. This is 2015 and we are governed by republicans, so I am going to criticize them for the terrible condition of our education, health and state budget. The fact that we have such a huge % of our population that is medically uninsured or the fact that our class room sizes are huge due to a teacher shortage isnt because of the last 100 years. Its from the last 5.

    And Texas has better culture than us? What does that even mean? Texas has an gigantic advantage over us in O&G, agriculture, tourism and they benefit from ports and an abundance of cheap labor. They have a built in advantage. We cant cut our taxes enough to compete with that. What we can do is focus on our state and do whats best and invest in education, health, and infrastructure. Hard to do when you keep mindlessly cutting taxes and services, even when no evidence appears that it does any good.

    I will agree with you about changing up the leg process to only propose and vote on laws every two years while putting more focus on the budget every year. And they are exploring that now. There was a hearing on it yesterday and is being rightly pushed by Republican Sen. David Holt.

  9. Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    I agree. I wish the GOP in this state would start working towards bringing the state forward and building a better state for all Oklahomans rather than pandering to special interest groups.
    You do realize democrats ran the state for the majority of our history...right?

  10. #60

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by PhiAlpha View Post
    You do realize democrats ran the state for the majority of our history...right?
    Relevance to Oklahoma politics post 2010? You do realize Fred Harris has not been in the Oklahoma Democratic party for a few decades, .... right?

  11. Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    The problem with saying Democrats screwed it up for 100 years is that the current Republicans got elected by promising to correct the mistakes, but all they did was double-down on the stupidity. When does the fixing start? The truth is it won't get fixed because the average Republican voter is addicted to government spending (look at how many new freeways they want built) and Republican dominated industries have their hands out so often you would think they were homeless begging for money in Bricktown.

    You won't get the state government you want because none of you want to live the lifestyle it takes to acheive it. Btw - Texas is in so much debt they will be going the way of Puerto Rico soon enough. Texas is California circa 1980, and we see how that worked out.

  12. #62
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    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by PhiAlpha View Post
    You do realize democrats ran the state for the majority of our history...right?
    So name one thing Republicans have done to fix things past Democrat rule did.

  13. Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Bunty View Post
    So name one thing Republicans have done to fix things past Democrat rule did.
    Im not saying republicans shouldn't have fixed anything or that they have fixed anything that had been screwed up in the past. I'm saying both political parties bear plenty of responsibility for how messed up our schools, etc are and that it is unfair to blame it on one side or they other. The "blame it all on republicans" sentiment is ridiculous, especially among people here that are generally more knowledgable about Oklahoma than the average person. Schools aren't much better or worse now then they were ten years ago and they weren't any better 10 years before that. Did democrats in the past not win elections on the promise to fix our schools and other aspects of the state just as republicans did recently? Did they instantly create the best schools in the country as some of you suggest that republicans should have over the last 5 years? Was OK the shining example of progressivism for the entirety of the democrats rule here? Many things have improved over the last five years in OK, many have gotten worse. Everyone is quick to point fingers on both sides, but what good does that do? Until both parties are more interested in fixing the problem then assigning blame, nothing is going to change...in OK and abroad.

  14. #64
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    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by PhiAlpha View Post
    You do realize democrats ran the state for the majority of our history...right?
    So? Do you view as too early to slam Republicans for doing next to nothing to correct the horrible or stupid mistakes Democrats did why they ruled?

  15. #65

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    The problem with saying Democrats screwed it up for 100 years is that the current Republicans got elected by promising to correct the mistakes, but all they did was double-down on the stupidity. When does the fixing start? The truth is it won't get fixed because the average Republican voter is addicted to government spending (look at how many new freeways they want built) and Republican dominated industries have their hands out so often you would think they were homeless begging for money in Bricktown.

    You won't get the state government you want because none of you want to live the lifestyle it takes to acheive it. Btw - Texas is in so much debt they will be going the way of Puerto Rico soon enough. Texas is California circa 1980, and we see how that worked out.
    JTF, you've brought this issue up like a 3 year old begs for candy. Show us some proof of your allegations. Show us where Texas revenues aren't sufficient to pay their bond debt? Do you have inside information that the underwiters don't have? Are you part of the consortiums that determine financial stability or are you going to admit you're just pulling your allegations out of you arse? The rest of the world totally disagrees with what you alledge so what do you think you know that everyone else doesnt? Texas is borrowing their money at virtually 0 interest. The economy there is booming aside from oil and gas and will continue to grow because the billions are going to improve and modernize the infrastructure. Private investment, new employer and new jobs are being created by the thousands. You're doing nothing but denying the obvious and looking silly.

  16. #66

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Oklahoma has a per person debt of 5,017. Texas has a per person debt of 10,194
    State of Oklahoma Debt Clock

    State of Texas Debt Clock

    While states do have a so called balanced budget requirement, legislators work around this by failing to fully contribute to the pension plans they are supposedly required to fund. Magically states can have a government that they don't have to adequately fund.

  17. #67

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    That may be true per person but TX has a far more diversified economy, significantly more high income citizens, far more major businesses, more revenues from natural resources and tourism, and a far faster growing economy. They have international airports, seaports, some fabulous universities, an independent power grid and could always impose an income tax if it came to it. Texas can handle it.

  18. #68

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Rare that I agree with JTF, but Oklahoma will continue to get itself in trouble by trying to emulate a state that, despite some shared cultural and economic traits, has literally nothing in common with it. We talking about a state that is several times larger and got about a 100 year head start on Oklahoma. Frankly, I would hope such a place would be more diversified than us. I don't understand this line of thought. Go to any other neighboring or regional state and you'll find only Oklahomans have this weird complex with Texas.

    I also would not characterize Texas as "booming," at least not anymore. Doing okay, perhaps. I know plenty of people that have been laid off here. Something like 60K layoffs in O&G alone. Remove Austin and the Dallas side of DFW and my guess is Texas is probably in the same shape if not worse than OK. And I am hearing increasingly bleak things coming from Houston. Lots of retailers and restaurants with big Texas footprints are now starting to see their bottom lines affected.

    Definitely agree that TX has a much better fiscal plan to get through this though. Its unacceptable that OK's government has become some dependent on O&G revenue and we aren't even a generation removed from being on our knees from being in the same position. I should point out even with no income tax, Texas in general has a comparably higher tax burden than OK by most measures (very high property taxes).

  19. #69
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    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Better people need to be elected to run Oklahoma. In my opinion, my state rep is well qualified in his position from being a lawyer with a major in political science. He showed it by voting against allowing the people to vote on banning Sharia law. But someone who is a church deacon or pastor should be shunned, since he or she is possibly motivated to advance a religious right agenda. Candidates who send their children to private schools should be shunned, too, unless you believe the solution to problems in state education is to fund private schools through vouchers.

  20. #70

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    Actually crude demand will continue to grow, the emerging economies will use a lot of oil going forward. The US could be a net exporter of crude very soon in the future. That will be very good for the economy.
    Except we can't export oil.

  21. #71
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    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by PhiAlpha View Post
    Im not saying republicans shouldn't have fixed anything or that they have fixed anything that had been screwed up in the past. I'm saying both political parties bear plenty of responsibility for how messed up our schools, etc are and that it is unfair to blame it on one side or they other. The "blame it all on republicans" sentiment is ridiculous, especially among people here that are generally more knowledgable about Oklahoma than the average person. Schools aren't much better or worse now then they were ten years ago and they weren't any better 10 years before that. Did democrats in the past not win elections on the promise to fix our schools and other aspects of the state just as republicans did recently? Did they instantly create the best schools in the country as some of you suggest that republicans should have over the last 5 years? Was OK the shining example of progressivism for the entirety of the democrats rule here? Many things have improved over the last five years in OK, many have gotten worse. Everyone is quick to point fingers on both sides, but what good does that do? Until both parties are more interested in fixing the problem then assigning blame, nothing is going to change...in OK and abroad.
    What are some of these many things that have improved over the last five years in OK? If MAPS, that was a continuing program that started long ago.

  22. #72

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Despite the downturn in the oil industry, this underlines the strides OKC has made in diversifying it's employment.

    Oklahoma City's jobless rate holds steady at 3.6 percent | NewsOK.com

  23. #73

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Milken Institute released its standing for best performing metro economies of 2015. OKC holds its own at 74 out of 201 metros. Rest of the state's cities...not so much. Tulsa is at 138, Lawton at 172.

    There is definitely a visible slowdown in the oil cities between 2014 and 2015, but the falloff is not as near as steep in OKC as others.

    The full report with an interactive map: 2015 Best-Performing Cities » map

  24. #74

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by adaniel View Post
    Rare that I agree with JTF, but Oklahoma will continue to get itself in trouble by trying to emulate a state that, despite some shared cultural and economic traits, has literally nothing in common with it. We talking about a state that is several times larger and got about a 100 year head start on Oklahoma. Frankly, I would hope such a place would be more diversified than us. I don't understand this line of thought. Go to any other neighboring or regional state and you'll find only Oklahomans have this weird complex with Texas.

    I also would not characterize Texas as "booming," at least not anymore. Doing okay, perhaps. I know plenty of people that have been laid off here. Something like 60K layoffs in O&G alone. Remove Austin and the Dallas side of DFW and my guess is Texas is probably in the same shape if not worse than OK. And I am hearing increasingly bleak things coming from Houston. Lots of retailers and restaurants with big Texas footprints are now starting to see their bottom lines affected.

    Definitely agree that TX has a much better fiscal plan to get through this though. Its unacceptable that OK's government has become some dependent on O&G revenue and we aren't even a generation removed from being on our knees from being in the same position. I should point out even with no income tax, Texas in general has a comparably higher tax burden than OK by most measures (very high property taxes).
    Depends on where you are in Texas. Austin is booming with IT. Home sales through the roof. Construction boom, and job boom. Also in Austin the property tax is higher than Oklahoma, however our property insurance is WAYYYYY cheaper than what we had in OKC. I only pay 900 a year on 2500 sqft home. I was paying $3000 in OKC for same type of home. Also I have a view of rolling hills and not a flat prairie. NO CRAZY weather or earthquakes. Dallas or Houston it may be different, but Austin is great.

  25. #75

    Default Re: Oklahoma City Economic Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by circuitboard View Post
    Depends on where you are in Texas. Austin is booming with IT. Home sales through the roof. Construction boom, and job boom. Also in Austin the property tax is higher than Oklahoma, however our property insurance is WAYYYYY cheaper than what we had in OKC. I only pay 900 a year on 2500 sqft home. I was paying $3000 in OKC for same type of home. Also I have a view of rolling hills and not a flat prairie. NO CRAZY weather or earthquakes. Dallas or Houston it may be different, but Austin is great.
    There are two sides to the Austin story in my opinion.

    It's booming with growth and is extremely desirable. Austin is right up there with Portland and Denver when it comes to cities beloved by Millennials. With that said, its infrastructure isn't able to handle the amount of people living there now and continuing to move there. The cost of living is skyrocketing, especially if you want to live in an urban part of the city. It's also more difficult to find employment than the numbers would indicate because there is so much job competition. Austin, like Portland and Seattle, is the kind of place where you will find people with degrees waiting tables and living with several roommates.

    Texas is a huge state though and overall is much more diverse economically than Oklahoma. Parts of Texas are similar to Oklahoma such as rural north Texas. The Houston area is overall too dependent on O&G just like Oklahoma but they are also far more diverse than they were during the last oil bust. Dallas and Austin will be the least affected by the oil bust.

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