Something big coming?

[adaniel]

Exactly. Just look at OKCTalk.

This city's biggest cheerleaders on this board are living elsewhere, some having moved very recently and by choice. There are a few more posters that I know are planning to leave soon, and these are positive people, not debbie downers. I know people have different reasons for living where they do, but if OKC is really a city that has "arrived," why are OKCTalk's young, educated cheerleaders leaving by choice for places like Seattle, Denver, Austin, etc? It's easy to admire the progress in OKC and look at it through rose colored glasses when you live in some higher tiered city that already has all the amenities that OKC can possibly get within the next 10-15 years and you don't have to deal with the frustrating things about living here.

How can OKC become a city where people WANT to live in even when presented with other options? It's a real problem that so many people, even those who are happy with the direction that OKC is going, still want to leave for greener pastures. That means, despite all the progress, there is something that OKC is still doing wrong.

As for the attitude you speak of, the only way that is going to change is to have a big transplant boom like Raleigh and Charlotte have seen.

Terrible logic here. I am assuming you are referring to me as one of the people who have moved. I didn't move because I don't like OKC, I moved because I had an excellent opportunity in another city. It happens, its called life. Americans are mobile...nobody lives in the same town forever. I know several people who are making plans to leave Dallas. Does that mean DFW is in trouble? Why did you leave Charlotte?

You assume that since people on a message board are moving than that means everyone else is leaving and they are doing so because this place is a dump. No offense, but you love to use these logical fallacies and I find them to be infuriating, frankly. OKC is growing and has ranked in the top 10-12 big metros in terms of growth for some time now. Not a top 5 "boomtown" that people on here love to reference, but healthy above average growth with strong domestic in-migration a/k/a people moving in from other parts of the country. You can look at the data here.

[Teo9969]

One major problem I see with OKC is that its citizens are sedentary and poorly traveled. Moving and traveling doesn't necessarily change *where* you want to live, but rather *how* you want to live. So what happens is you have a bunch of people complain about the city without knowing what it is they actually want, or, think they want to change, resulting in a massive segment of the population who are not contributing to making OKC a better place (if not making it a worse place), if for no other reason than because they don't know what a better place actually is.

A can-do attitude goes a long way to actually making progress as a city. If these people think that getting out of the city is going to somehow open up all sorts of new doors (obviously notwithstanding very distinct opportunities in certain fields that OKC simply doesn't have), they're sorely mistaken. 15 years ago…sure, maybe…in 2014, not even close.

If you want to learn how to speak Turkish, or you want to sing on Broadway, etc. the city ought not be faulted in any way or seen as a lesser than city because those opportunities don't exist here. But the average person I've met and talked to doesn't seem to have those very distinct ambitions that would preclude OKC from being a perfectly fine destination to live.

[NWOKCGuy]

I know for a fact you are wrong. There are so many factors in play, but I swear to it on my life, I know of various companies that have bypassed OKC for two things.... airport and our highway/road network. Both are undesirable and are lacking big time.

Prove it. Where has any company stated they bypassed OKC because of our highways? Or were you sitting in on their board meetings where they discussed relocation?

[NWOKCGuy]

Terrible logic here. I am assuming you are referring to me as one of the people who have moved. I didn't move because I don't like OKC, I moved because I had an excellent opportunity in another city. It happens, its called life. Americans are mobile...nobody lives in the same town forever. I know several people who are making plans to leave Dallas. Does that mean DFW is in trouble? Why did you leave Charlotte?

You assume that since people on a message board are moving than that means everyone else is leaving and they are doing so because this place is a dump. No offense, but you love to use these logical fallacies and I find them to be infuriating, frankly. OKC is growing and has ranked in the top 10-12 big metros in terms of growth for some time now. Not a top 5 "boomtown" that people on here love to reference, but healthy above average growth with strong domestic in-migration a/k/a people moving in from other parts of the country. You can look at the data here.

Don't let facts get in the way of their opinion.

[bombermwc]

You know, for every one of these "big" teaser things, we do actually get a few in0-fill projects, which actually excite me even more. You can't get a Devon Tower every other block, but if you can put one of those in and then get a few smaller projects (or even better, renovate something that's been sitting), then that's even better. There were a few exciting things that i really wish could have happened, like Cotton Exchange, but instead we get some crappy things like Centennial. But as much as i hate the way the Centennial is built, at least it's been able to be a successful mixed-use structure. We didn't get a 30 floor hotel, but we did at least get a few brick-faced hotels that are WAY better than what COULD have been put in (regardless of how much you might dislike them). So as unexciting as some things are, be thankful that they aren't 100% suburban stucco.

[Just the facts]

He is still alive, you know.

Yes, they are waiting until he dies so they can rebuild Boston City Hall and Plaza (which won an award btw) without offending him.

[Bullbear]

How many visitors are leaving and returning to live in OKC, how many natives are leaving? I visited and my wife (from Indiana) and I decided to retire here and my story is not the exception, but the rule. OKC needs to improve a lot more. You've read about Raleigh's growth, enough said. Raleigh's DT is not as big as OKC, but the ATTITUDE is very different. Take a look at the what can we do to improve OKC thread, much truth can be found in those posts. How many say they are looking to leave OKC

we will simply have to agree to disagree. yes Raleigh has had a huge population growth. OKC also is growing. Perhaps I don't surround myself with the negative people which is just how I roll. but within my close circle are people from Atlanta, LA, San Diego and Seattle who have chose to move to OKC. there is a lot of Great attitude in OKC I see it all the time. A handful of negative folks don't affect my decisions. as I stated before many of those people will move and be just as miserable because that is how they live.

that being said back to the topic

[Pete]

Over the last several years, Oklahoma has been experiencing positive migration from every single state, and that trend is accelerating.

As recently as five years ago, more people were moving to Texas (and a few other states) than moving to OK from them; but that trend has completely reversed and picking up strong steam in the other direction.


People in the U.S. are very mobile -- they are going to move. But stats show many more are moving to Oklahoma than away from it.

And as OKC is the biggest population center and the place that is growing much faster than anywhere else in the state, I'm sure if you could break down the numbers just for the city they wold show very, very strong moves in one direction.


As mentioned, this trend is accelerating. With the extremely low unemployment rate and very strong growth in jobs, you can bet in five years all these indicators will even be much more favorable.

[bchris02]

Terrible logic here. I am assuming you are referring to me as one of the people who have moved. I didn't move because I don't like OKC, I moved because I had an excellent opportunity in another city. It happens, its called life. Americans are mobile...nobody lives in the same town forever. I know several people who are making plans to leave Dallas. Does that mean DFW is in trouble? Why did you leave Charlotte?

I actually was NOT referring to you. You didn't so much leave because you wanted to but because you had to for your career and to get away from a bad job situation here. Very similar to why I left Charlotte actually.

[dcsooner]

Exactly. Just look at OKCTalk.

This city's biggest cheerleaders on this board are living elsewhere, some having moved very recently and by choice. There are a few more posters that I know are planning to leave soon, and these are positive people, not debbie downers. I know people have different reasons for living where they do, but if OKC is really a city that has "arrived," why are OKCTalk's young, educated cheerleaders leaving by choice for places like Seattle, Denver, Austin, etc? It's easy to admire the progress in OKC and look at it through rose colored glasses when you live in some higher tiered city that already has all the amenities that OKC can possibly get within the next 10-15 years and you don't have to deal with the frustrating things about living here.

How can OKC become a city where people WANT to live in even when presented with other options? It's a real problem that so many people, even those who are happy with the direction that OKC is going, still want to leave for greener pastures. That means, despite all the progress, there is something that OKC is still doing wrong.

As for the attitude you speak of, the only way that is going to change is to have a big transplant boom like Raleigh and Charlotte have seen.

Kudos, You got it

[Pete]

^

Actually, all that's already been proven to be completely false.

But I know you guys have no interest in facts, especially when they contradict what you prefer to believe.

[Bellaboo]

But companies passing up OKC For Dallas isn't because of interchanges. It's a variety of reasons including quality of life, amenities, infrastructure, state business climate, etc.

And a sizeable slush fund.....

[PhiAlpha]

Exactly. Just look at OKCTalk.

This city's biggest cheerleaders on this board are living elsewhere, some having moved very recently and by choice. There are a few more posters that I know are planning to leave soon, and these are positive people, not debbie downers. I know people have different reasons for living where they do, but if OKC is really a city that has "arrived," why are OKCTalk's young, educated cheerleaders leaving by choice for places like Seattle, Denver, Austin, etc? It's easy to admire the progress in OKC and look at it through rose colored glasses when you live in some higher tiered city that already has all the amenities that OKC can possibly get within the next 10-15 years and you don't have to deal with the frustrating things about living here.

How can OKC become a city where people WANT to live in even when presented with other options? It's a real problem that so many people, even those who are happy with the direction that OKC is going, still want to leave for greener pastures. That means, despite all the progress, there is something that OKC is still doing wrong.

As for the attitude you speak of, the only way that is going to change is to have a big transplant boom like Raleigh and Charlotte have seen.

This is dumb. Most of the people that participate in this forum that have left OKC have done so primarily because of great job offers in other cities. Also, there is nothing wrong with people, who have lived here there whole lives, moving to other cities to try something different.

Also, I can see why you mentioned Austin, but using Denver and Seattle as examples of destinations is pretty weak. Denver and Seattle both have advantages that OKC as well as Dallas, and Austin will never have. If I chose to move to Denver, which I've considered, I would do so because of proximity to the mountains and the cooler summers. Aside from adding a white water rafting facility, those are advantages that OKC and other southern/midwestern cities can't compete with. It would have nothing to do with city amenities or my feelings about OKC as I can do most of what I would do in Denver in OKC. Seattle has the Pacific Ocean, is cooler (temperature wise), and is close to the mountains. Again, OKC can't compete with that if those are the amenities you seek.

[Bellaboo]

I'm an educated cheerleader and I still live here....with no plans to leave either, and I travel all over the world, a lot.

[bchris02]

This is dumb. Most of the people that participate in this forum that have left OKC have done so primarily because of great job offers in other cities. Also, there is nothing wrong with people, who have lived here there whole lives, moving to other cities to try something different.

Absolutely. I didn't say there was anything wrong with it and can more than understand why somebody would want to leave, especially if they've lived here their entire lives. I am just pointing out that actions do speak louder than words.

[PhiAlpha]

Absolutely. I didn't say there was anything wrong with it and can more than understand why somebody would want to leave, especially if they've lived here their entire lives. I am just pointing out that actions do speak louder than words.

If I left for that reason, which again, I've considered, it would have nothing to do with lack of development here, lack of ammenities, or my feelings for OKC. It would have everything to do with wanting to change it up for awhile, so I'm not sure actions mean anything in that case or others where people on this board have moved.

[borchard]

How many visitors are leaving and returning to live in OKC, how many natives are leaving? I visited and my wife (from Indiana) and I decided to retire here and my story is not the exception, but the rule. OKC needs to improve a lot more. You've read about Raleigh's growth, enough said. Raleigh's DT is not as big as OKC, but the ATTITUDE is very different. Take a look at the what can we do to improve OKC thread, much truth can be found in those posts. How many say they are looking to leave OKC

A friend of mine just related to me how a friend of his who used to live in Boston started coming to OKC on business. At first he almost dreaded coming here. But after a few trips he made an observation that, for him, it is easier to develop "community" with other people here than it is in Boston. He has subsequently moved here.

[borchard]

... If I chose to move to Denver, which I've considered, I would do so because of proximity to the mountains and the cooler summers.

I guess I would have to disagree with this as a reason to move to Denver. Denver, itself, gets almost as hot as OKC in the summer. I had to go there for business last summer and it was 105, and had been that way for a week they said. One of my friends just got back from Denver last week and said it was in the 90's.

Seattle has the Pacific Ocean, is cooler (temperature wise), and is close to the mountains. Again, OKC can't compete with that if those are the amenities you seek.

Can't argue with that one, though

[PhiAlpha]

I guess I would have to disagree with this as a reason to move to Denver. Denver, itself, gets almost as hot as OKC in the summer. I had to go there for business last summer and it was 105, and had been that way for a week they said. One of my friends just got back from Denver last week and said it was in the 90's.

Can't argue with that one, though

Yeah I really meant cooler summers in the mountains, but it is a drier heat in Denver than it usually is here which doesn't feel quite as oppressive when it does get that hot. It also takes longer to get up to those 100 + degree temps and they generally don't last as long.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[zookeeper]

Absolutely. I didn't say there was anything wrong with it and can more than understand why somebody would want to leave, especially if they've lived here their entire lives. I am just pointing out that actions do speak louder than words.

But there's nothing about those actions that reflect on Oklahoma City. I'm sure sometimes there is a need to leave because somebody just flat out doesn't like it here, but that's not the case with many posting here at this forum. People leave great cities every day, people leave Charlotte, people leave San Diego, Austin, every city. Sometimes it's called a fresh start and requires a life reset. It's no reflection on the city they feel the need to leave; it's an inner, emotional, very personal decision based on things that have nothing to do with geography.

[LocoAko]

I love my city and I will go to back for it any day of the week. I have spent countless hours defending it... however, when it comes to transit, we truly do a horrible job with it.

First and foremost, we need to improve all of our interchanges... this doesn't include these crappy half-ass cloverleaf hybrid interchanges, it is time to get with the times and become modern with our highways

2nd- commuter and light-rail

our roads are awful. We need more 6 lane arterial streets... at the very least, medians and turn lanes are badly needed

Our air service has to be expanded. I know it has been said time and time again, a hub is as likely as NASA building a new spaceport here, but surely we can find a way to expand our service somehow.

OKC needs new highway loops and expansions.... but for now, we need to fix our interchanges first and establish commuter rail. Those two things are very important, imo.

I agree the roads aren't the best (in terms of actual quality - potholes, interchanges, etc) but 6-lane arterial roads? *cringe* So what, this city can become even less walkable and pedestrian-unfriendly and oriented toward cars? There is zero need for that sort of madness.

[BDP]

Exactly. Just look at OKCTalk.

This city's biggest cheerleaders on this board are living elsewhere, some having moved very recently and by choice. There are a few more posters that I know are planning to leave soon, and these are positive people, not debbie downers. I know people have different reasons for living where they do, but if OKC is really a city that has "arrived," why are OKCTalk's young, educated cheerleaders leaving by choice for places like Seattle, Denver, Austin, etc? It's easy to admire the progress in OKC and look at it through rose colored glasses when you live in some higher tiered city that already has all the amenities that OKC can possibly get within the next 10-15 years and you don't have to deal with the frustrating things about living here.

How can OKC become a city where people WANT to live in even when presented with other options? It's a real problem that so many people, even those who are happy with the direction that OKC is going, still want to leave for greener pastures. That means, despite all the progress, there is something that OKC is still doing wrong.

As for the attitude you speak of, the only way that is going to change is to have a big transplant boom like Raleigh and Charlotte have seen.

When did you leave? A lot of your recent comments seem dated. The city is growing and I see more people coming in than leaving. If you get involved in things like Better Block and some of the street festivals, you quickly realize that there is a growing mass of young, creative professionals who not only like living here, but may be doing the most to make positive changes. Seriously, the difference between now and just 3 years ago is noticeable. I think the most interesting thing is the type of people that are coming, coming back, or staying. A lot of the younger people tell me they like it because it's so accessible. One person or a small group of people can make real changes. There is more positive energy in OKC's youth contingent than I have ever seen. Most people these days who talk poorly about the city left awhile ago. Certainly, there's still an image problem and it's hard to get people to come here no matter what, but as long as it's still in Oklahoma, that will always be a problem. But, once they do come here, you're seeing more of the decide to stay awhile and/or comeback. The census numbers suggest this is happening, but if you actually get active in the community, you can see it first hand.

[BDP]

My suggestion for OKC is to start RIGHT NOW figuring out how to Kerry's District to District transit model in place. Start linking them all together so each district feels very close -- cause right now they aren't.

I like the suggestion, too, but they feel more joined than they ever have and it should get even better with Metropolitan and then hopefully the Flatiron. Walking from Deep Deuce to H and 8th feels like nothing now. I'd love to see Broadway get some structural infill, but the districts out of the CBD and BT are beginning to come together more and more. Last year I did not feel this way, but now each district feels about two blocks apart from each, which is way closer than in a lot of cities.

[soonerguru]

Absolutely. I didn't say there was anything wrong with it and can more than understand why somebody would want to leave, especially if they've lived here their entire lives. I am just pointing out that actions do speak louder than words.

Then your words are bunk. The stats prove you wrong. More people are coming than going. Please stop digging yourself further in the hole.

[bchris02]

I'll tell you what will do it. You need Paseo Arts District, Plaza District, Bricktown, Deep Deuce, and others to 'finish'. There are a lot of neighborhoods in OKC that are up and coming but in terms of walking 10 blocks or so of nice commercial space and medium priced housing and you'll see gentrification happen. In all honestly, I think that's what it will take for OKC to truly take off. Some old fashioned gentrification that feels very mature in a few places. When we lived there we lived in Deep Deuce and I felt it was the closest to that simply because of the housing density, proximity to grocery, restaurants, and entertainment. Yet Deep Deuce still lacks a homogeneous sense of place or any kind of mini-main street to just stroll and most importantly - spend money.

As spread out as OKC is, its curse will be a massive blessing in the future when there are a dozen of these 'small cities' within the city. The breadth of choices, the rise in the quality of schools, and the almost unlimited room for housing which will keep housing rates relatively down.

I don't think anything is wrong with OKC now. I think time is the only thing it lacks before it's on the map in much more serious ways and the reverse will start to happen. People like me will go to OKC and see how they can duplicate their lifestyle for a lot less money and perhaps get even more value simply because there are more things to do in such a spread out city.

My suggestion for OKC is to start RIGHT NOW figuring out how to Kerry's District to District transit model in place. Start linking them all together so each district feels very close -- cause right now they aren't. Without a really special public transit connector, you'll very likely see neighborhoods more like you see in Atlanta where walkability is minimized to make room for the volume of traffic just passing through or visiting the districts.

Don't stress what OKC is today. See the future and build toward it in such a way that the end product 'lands' closer to something special rather than something anyone can just find in Atlanta or Houston.

Excellent insight. I think you hit the nail on the head.

You are right about OKC lacking a "finished" district. Having moved here from a higher-tiered city, there isn't anywhere in OKC that truly has a "wow" factor. OKC needs at least one or two districts that have that. Bricktown could get there but there needs to be more infill as well as canal level development. There is currently way too much vacant space facing the canal at all levels. The Paseo, in my opinion, is the next closest thing yet it is still lacking. Midtown could get there but I think its at least 3-5 years away. I think you are right that time is what is really needed.