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  1. #126

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    It may be necessary for another big chain to be lured here, but don't get the idea liquor has that much to do with it. Here in Colorado, the silly laws are such that only one store from each chain can sell liquor directly in the store STATEWIDE. The chain names it's "flagship" store for the state and liquor can be sold there. Sprouts store happens to be one near where I live but I don't shop there because there are plenty of other liquor choices in the area. Like OK, you can only buy 3.2 beer in all other stores.

  2. #127

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    The demographics issue in downtown OKC is tough because retailers look at numbers in a 1-, 3- and 5-mile radius. For a grocery store, 1- and 3-mile are key.

    Although downtown is filling in a bit and there are some denser neighborhoods as you head north, there is very little to the south, east and west. So the numbers are always going to be lean even as we get more people moving into downtown.

    Further, grocers typically only go downtown when it's pretty mature and the rest of the city is relatively saturated. Los Angeles only got a full-scale grocery a few years ago and the demographics there are pretty darn dense.


    We are just flipping lucky that Native Roots is downtown at all, let alone moving in when they did.

  3. #128

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    It may be necessary for another big chain to be lured here, but don't get the idea liquor has that much to do with it. Here in Colorado, the silly laws are such that only one store from each chain can sell liquor directly in the store STATEWIDE. The chain names it's "flagship" store for the state and liquor can be sold there. Sprouts store happens to be one near where I live but I don't shop there because there are plenty of other liquor choices in the area. Like OK, you can only buy 3.2 beer in all other stores.
    I agree, liquor isn't a do or die deal. It would help though especially in a situation like in OKC where demographics are marginal at best. Being able to sell liquor would give them the confidence that a store would be successful. Having a national chain buy out Homeland though would be ideal. Even with this state's draconian liquor laws, the situation could be much better than it is. One only has to look up the turnpike to Tulsa, which has a MUCH better grocery situation metro-wide thanks to their dominant chain being Reasor's. Reasor's isn't national but they care and take pride in their stores unlike Homeland.

  4. #129

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    I understand what you are trying to say, Pete, but where I live there isn't much east or south of me, either. I have 9 quality grocery stores within 2 miles of where I live. There are just as many "rooftops" near 18th and Classen as near where I live because so much of what is near me is office and commercial. Its a money game and its the same reason virtually all other cities have trouble getting retailers to stay near downtown areas. For some reason, Denver is served by multiple grocery stores in and around downtown.

  5. #130

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Downtown Denver and the surrounding areas have always had dense populations, unlike a lot of cities where people left in droves and are only now coming back (like L.A.).

    In two miles from the middle of downtown OKC there is Native Roots, Homeland, Buy for Less and Walmart Neighborhood Market plus a CVS and Walgreens.

  6. #131

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    don't forget about Super Cao Nguyen - I know its not a traditional grocery store, but for fresh produce and meats, they are pretty good, but incomplete for *ahem* people's tastes.

    also there's the little braum's fresh market. but that place is dirtier than the homeland.

  7. Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    And nobody made the argument that the rooftop numbers don't exist at 18th and Classen. You are distorting what has been said here. The whole basis for my own recent posts was that 18th and Classen was surrounded by thick housing stock, much of it with desirable demographics.

    The hoped-for walkable grocery in the heart of downtown or midtown is an entirely different matter, however. The downtown population, while growing at an amazing pace, is still minuscule in comparison to other parts of the city. And "walkable" is only practical within a radius of several blocks, anyway. The points Pete makes about everything south and east (and even mostly west of downtown) are spot-on also; it is all office, industrial, and wasteland.

    The comparison to Denver couldn't be more of an apples-to-oranges juxtaposition other than if you had used a place like Chicago or Manhattan. Denver has a rare level of (mostly affluent) population density downtown for a city in the central U.S., and has for decades.

  8. #133
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    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    When I lived at the Classen I shoped at all three places, SCN, Homeland, and Fresh Market, depending on the products...

    I wanted to speak to the "value proposition" discussion of this Homeland location... most items are not particularly cheap. Many are full retail price. If you have a Homeland card you get some deals, but I don't have one, and a lot of times people don't and the cashier swipes one for them. So I don't think the lower income folks in the area would have a noticeably different shopping experience cost wise than if this Homeland was something more upscale. They might even be better off from a health perspective.

  9. #134

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by shawnw View Post
    When I lived at the Classen I shoped at all three places, SCN, Homeland, and Fresh Market, depending on the products...

    I wanted to speak to the "value proposition" discussion of this Homeland location... most items are not particularly cheap. Many are full retail price. If you have a Homeland card you get some deals, but I don't have one, and a lot of times people don't and the cashier swipes one for them. So I don't think the lower income folks in the area would have a noticeably different shopping experience cost wise than if this Homeland was something more upscale. They might even be better off from a health perspective.
    This is a big misconception among a lot of people in OKC. People here think when people like myself complain about the low quality grocery stores in OKC, we are wanting more high-end, hoity-toity stores with high prices i.e. Whole Foods. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Stores like Kroger, Harris Teeter, Reasor's, Publx, etc are no more expensive than Homeland yet are much, much better stores in every possible way from cleanliness to appearance to selection.

    If the average Homeland was more like the one at May and Britton than the one at 18th and Classen there would be far less complaining. Homeland needs a change in management or to simply get bought out.

  10. Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Stores like Kroger, Harris Teeter, Reasor's, Publx, etc are no more expensive than Homeland yet are much, much better stores in every possible way from cleanliness to appearance to selection.
    I can't speak to the quality or price of the others, but I'm from Tahlequah, where Reasor's started. I shopped there a lot. Reasor's is definitely more expensive than Homeland, for a minimal increase in quality, IMO.

  11. #136

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    It just makes me laugh each time I read another story about an urban grocery store and "just not enough rooftops to support it."
    ...
    The management of the chain mistakenly thinking people in Oklahoma City are too value oriented so they have to wait for an incentive to put in a store.
    I find this statement humorous (but sadly, true). We complain about how the big retailers don't see OKC for what it is until they risk it and find out just how avid OKC shoppers are, but the same is true of our OWN business -- underestimating OKC shoppers.

  12. #137

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Why would Homeland be chasing value shoppers? Their prices are comparably high. They have no apparent niche in this market. I admire the fact they are willing to consider improving that store, but they don't seem to get it. It's a little bit of a case of "too little, too late," in my opinion, unless they are going to transform -- and perhaps rebrand -- that store with offerings more in line with what one would expect in a growing inner-city neighborhood.

    Again, if we are going to offer them an incentive, we should ask them what they are going to do with the store besides improving the brick and mortar. If they are not going to fundamentally change what they're doing in that location, let's save the incentives for a more desirable operator.

  13. #138

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    Why would Homeland be chasing value shoppers? Their prices are comparably high. They have no apparent niche in this market. I admire the fact they are willing to consider improving that store, but they don't seem to get it. It's a little bit of a case of "too little, too late," in my opinion, unless they are going to transform -- and perhaps rebrand -- that store with offerings more in line with what one would expect in a growing inner-city neighborhood.
    If every other city can support a middle of the road grocer, why can't OKC? I don't buy that there is no niche in the market for their price point. However, they need to offer the quality that one should expect for such a mid-range store. It goes back to the same issue Albertson's had when they basically gave the OKC market the finger. People aren't going to pay higher prices for Wal-Mart quality or worse. As for the 18th and Classen store, I would definitely support a remodel and even an incentive if there is a guarantee they will do it right. If not, I would rather see Buy for Less come in and attempt to serve the downtown/midtown market. They seem to be getting pretty good at customizing their stores to fit the neighborhood they are in.

  14. #139

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    If every other city can support a middle of the road grocer, why can't OKC? I don't buy that there is no niche in the market for their price point. However, they need to offer the quality that one should expect for such a mid-range store. It goes back to the same issue Albertson's had when they basically gave the OKC market the finger. People aren't going to pay higher prices for Wal-Mart quality or worse. As for the 18th and Classen store, I would definitely support a remodel and even an incentive if there is a guarantee they will do it right. If not, I would rather see Buy for Less come in and attempt to serve the downtown/midtown market. They seem to be getting pretty good at customizing their stores to fit the neighborhood they are in.
    Because the operator doesn't seem to know what it's doing.

  15. #140

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Maybe we can all nominate Mr. Fitzgerald for UnderCover boss and suggest he visit the 18th & Classen store. LOL. Maybe then he'd see firsthand how crappy it really is.

  16. #141

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by metro View Post
    Maybe we can all nominate Mr. Fitzgerald for UnderCover boss and suggest he visit the 18th & Classen store. LOL. Maybe then he'd see firsthand how crappy it really is.
    NW 122nd and May too! Perfect location and a crappy store. That Homeland and the great store (IMO) at Britton and May might as well be on two different planets.

  17. #142

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by zookeeper View Post
    NW 122nd and May too! Perfect location and a crappy store. That Homeland and the great store (IMO) at Britton and May might as well be on two different planets.
    Agree. The 122nd and May Homeland is abhorrent. It always has a foul smell when you walk in. Such a great location wasted. The 122nd and Rockwell store is a little better but still nothing to write home about.


  18. #143

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Get rid of this place. Homeland is a joke. Time to move on.

  19. Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    I have been to three Homelands that were formerly Albertson's, S. E. 29th and Sunnylane, May and Britton, and North Bryant and Danforth in Edmond and they are the best Homelands I have seen. In order (my opinion of course) May and Britton, S. E. 29th and Sunnylane, and North Bryant and Danforth. Is it a coincidence or does it have something to do with the condition of the building/structure and parking lot when they took them over? I don't think so, I think cleanliness, neat produce areas and other things seem to have more to do with on site management.
    C. T.

  20. #145

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by ctchandler View Post
    I have been to three Homelands that were formerly Albertson's, S. E. 29th and Sunnylane, May and Britton, and North Bryant and Danforth in Edmond and they are the best Homelands I have seen. In order (my opinion of course) May and Britton, S. E. 29th and Sunnylane, and North Bryant and Danforth. Is it a coincidence or does it have something to do with the condition of the building/structure and parking lot when they took them over? I don't think so, I think cleanliness, neat produce areas and other things seem to have more to do with on site management.
    C. T.
    Homeland seems to have certain locations they care about and others they don't. I don't think it totally matters whether or not it was an Albertson's or not. The Edmond Homeland at 33rd and Broadway isn't bad and I don't think it was an Albertson's. NW 122nd and Rockwell definitely was an Albertson's and while its not the worst Homeland out there its still kind of dirty and gloomy. NW Expressway and MacArthur is another former Albertson's that hasn't really been kept up well.

  21. Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Homeland seems to have certain locations they care about and others they don't. I don't think it totally matters whether or not it was an Albertson's or not. The Edmond Homeland at 33rd and Broadway isn't bad and I don't think it was an Albertson's. NW 122nd and Rockwell definitely was an Albertson's and while its not the worst Homeland out there its still kind of dirty and gloomy. NW Expressway and MacArthur is another former Albertson's that hasn't really been kept up well.
    The 33rd and Broadway store was a Price Chopper (Price Mart before that). That was where I did my grocery shopping in college (OC).

    Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

  22. Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Bchris,
    I think the one at 33rd and Broadway is ok, but it isn't up to par with the three I mentioned. I had forgotten about MacArthur and Northwest Expressway, but I have never been in that one. Also, the three I mentioned are the only formerly Albertson's/now Homeland's that I have been in. Since I retired, I lead a sheltered life. Actually, I live so far East that I just don't go to the far west areas anymore. I worked at MacArthur and Northwest Expressway (Hertz) and was a lot more familiar with businesses in that area than I am now.
    C. T.
    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Homeland seems to have certain locations they care about and others they don't. I don't think it totally matters whether or not it was an Albertson's or not. The Edmond Homeland at 33rd and Broadway isn't bad and I don't think it was an Albertson's. NW 122nd and Rockwell definitely was an Albertson's and while its not the worst Homeland out there its still kind of dirty and gloomy. NW Expressway and MacArthur is another former Albertson's that hasn't really been kept up well.

  23. #148

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    I used to live on 18th & Classen, in the cul de sac in Mesta. I could smell the chicken frying at 8:00 am and see the joint from my front porch. I would drive to Sprouts for my major grocery shopping and cringe if I had to run in to Homieland for an onion or some flour. I now live on 25th & Walker, I still shop at Sprouts and WF, and I will be shopping at the new Uptown market on the east side when it opens. I dream of a nice grocery store closer!!

  24. #149

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Agree. The 122nd and May Homeland is abhorrent. It always has a foul smell when you walk in. Such a great location wasted. The 122nd and Rockwell store is a little better but still nothing to write home about.

    Wasn't this a Safeway at one time?

  25. #150

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    NW Expressway and MacArthur is another former Albertson's that hasn't really been kept up well.
    I shop there regularly. I agree that it could use a remodel but I have no problem with it It's certainly not dirty looking in the least and they meet my basic needs just fine.

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