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  1. Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Not every retailer; just national chains who make decisions on spreadsheets.

    If this store could just be remodeled to a decent standard, downtown will already be well-served by it and Native Roots.
    I would definitely take an upgrade to decent or up to par with the rest of their stores (quality wise, obviously not size) over what we have now. It would be a massive improvement and would bridge the gap until a competitor builds a new store downtown which hopefully would force more upgrades at the Homeland to remain competitive.

  2. #102

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Is there a link to nextdoor comments or can you describe "rightful complaining about the condition of the 18th St Homeland"?

  3. #103

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    This place needs a major overhaul. It is right next to Mesta and if it was upgraded I have no doubt it would get even more business.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by PhiAlpha View Post
    I would definitely take an upgrade to decent or up to par with the rest of their stores (quality wise, obviously not size) over what we have now. It would be a massive improvement and would bridge the gap until a competitor builds a new store downtown which hopefully would force more upgrades at the Homeland to remain competitive.
    Agrees. I just hope the upgrade is not some cookie-cutter deal but instead will treat that location like our local urban grocer as it should. Their design team needs to be on the ground not buried in their corporate model. I'm also interested in seeing some competition.
    BTW PhiAlpha I'm new to this but noticed your handle...I'm SAE from OU. (Very possible I know you but can't figure out how to use this site to know.)

  5. #105

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Dozer bait. This place is too far gone.

    Mr. Fitzgerald has been spouting the same nonsense for years:

    "Our goal is to stay focused on bringing the customer a better experience, Fitzgerald said."

    Homeland rebuilds image<br>Retail grocery chain made changes to staff, stores | News OK

    If his idea of "better experience" is embodied in their property at 18th and Classen, then I'd say his standards are a wee bit low.

  6. #106
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    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    IMO they should buy the lot directly north on the opposite side of 18th, where that little strip of shops is. It's partially parking for AF, but that shouldn't be an issue anymore, there really should be plenty of parking for whatever new tenets are to follow. They can build a similar sized, but more modern, store (preferably fronting Classen) with a similar sized parking lot, serving the exact same market. Then the current location can be bulldozed for another development, OR put back to use in making that little strip of Western two-way again (e.g. move the gas station to the SW corner of this lot, tear out that triangle, add the lanes, etc etc etc... just random thoughts about the area. Having lived at the Classen for 6+ years with this as my primary grocery (and obviously still going there a lot even living downtown now), I'm definitely liking the idea of a revamp, but not of there not being a grocery in roughly this spot.

  7. #107

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    If we're going to pony up for tax incentives, I would rather see Trader Joe's / Whole Foods or something else there, unless Homeland rebrands it and dramatically changes the type of offerings to fit a more urban location.

  8. #108

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo Bill View Post
    Dozer bait. This place is too far gone.

    Mr. Fitzgerald has been spouting the same nonsense for years:

    "Our goal is to stay focused on bringing the customer a better experience, Fitzgerald said."

    Homeland rebuilds image<br>Retail grocery chain made changes to staff, stores | News OK

    If his idea of "better experience" is embodied in their property at 18th and Classen, then I'd say his standards are a wee bit low.
    This location is not any better than the 39th street location they closed somewhat recently. And Homeland is not a company capable of making their Classen location a place where people actually want to shop. It is simply a place where people must shop because it is there. And that is fine with them. They are not geared toward satisfying the concerns of customers and they are not geared for growth - they seem wholly focused on preserving what they have. They don't care and it shows.

  9. #109

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by pickles View Post
    This location is not any better than the 39th street location they closed somewhat recently. And Homeland is not a company capable of making their Classen location a place where people actually want to shop. It is simply a place where people must shop because it is there. And that is fine with them. They are not geared toward satisfying the concerns of customers and they are not geared for growth - they seem wholly focused on preserving what they have. They don't care and it shows.
    Yep.

  10. #110

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    With all the grocers moving and and expanding, Homeland is doomed for extinction in OKC.

    The will probably do okay in the small towns where there are very few options -- which was how OKC has been until now.

  11. #111

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    I always thought it would be best for OKC if Homeland was simply bought out by a competing chain. What I really don't want to see is them to simply go out of business and leave vacant big boxes scattered all throughout town.

  12. #112

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    With all the grocers moving and and expanding, Homeland is doomed for extinction in OKC.

    The will probably do okay in the small towns where there are very few options -- which was how OKC has been until now.
    The small towns have nicer options in many cases. I'll take United over Homeland any day -- and Reasor's of course.

  13. #113

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    The small towns have nicer options in many cases. I'll take United over Homeland any day -- and Reasor's of course.
    Funny you should say that. HAC owns United also. If only they would treat the Homaland stores like they do the United stores.

  14. #114

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Agree that Homeland needs some competition here. As a Mesta resident I'm worried that their idea of renovation is not what most of us would have in mind for a local, quality, urban grocer. They're approach is likely a cookie-cutter spreadsheet-driven model and will fall short of what we need and want. It'd be great if they'd take this seriously and get our input and take cues from other local development, but I'm not optimistic. This may be a good time to try to bring about competition.

  15. #115

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    The small towns have nicer options in many cases. I'll take United over Homeland any day -- and Reasor's of course.
    That's sad but true. Actually pretty much anywhere has better grocery stores than OKC. Things are very, very slowly getting better in this area but there is still less than a handful of "decent" grocery stores in the entire metro area, so for a lot of people getting to one is less than convenient so you are pretty much stuck with Wal-Mart or a dirty, smelly Homeland.

  16. #116

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Interesting news. In addition to remodeling the facility they need to quit selling nearly or already expired produce, dairy and meat. I hardly ever shop there but if I must I only buy processed canned or boxed food because the "fresh" offerings are usually disgusting.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #117

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    This is kind of a joke. I'm glad they've noticed the complaints about this store, but I'm insulted that they think the city should use incentives for a downtown grocery store so they can remodel this one that is not downtown.

    This location is not surrounded by walkable critical mass of rooftops to the same degree that anywhere downtown would be.

  18. Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Yet it WOULD serve downtown AND a massive number of inner city rooftops, many with enviable demographics. That location makes SO much sense for a high-quality grocery store. Not necessarily defending the use of incentives.

    I honestly think we are still years away from having a dense enough urban population that by itself justifies a full-size grocery store largely catering to a walking clientele. It sounds wonderful, but it's not very practical or realistic. The street car will help in this regard, but no matter what it will still need to cater heavily to a crowd that arrives by automobile to succeed. Even many downtown residents will drive there rather than lug bags of groceries for blocks; even if it's only three or four blocks to/from a streetcar stop.

    Frankly, if the street car were extended close to that Homeland location - as a part of an extension to Plaza for instance - I truly believe a high-quality grocery story there COULD reasonably serve as the only supermarket-scale grocery store in the downtown area for years to come. I'm not saying that would be optimal; only that it would be adequate.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by Urbanized View Post
    Yet it WOULD serve downtown AND a massive number of inner city rooftops, many with enviable demographics. That location makes SO much sense for a high-quality grocery store. Not necessarily defending the use of incentives.

    I honestly think we are still years away from having a dense enough urban population that by itself justifies a full-size grocery store largely catering to a walking clientele. It sounds wonderful, but it's not very practical or realistic. The street car will help in this regard, but no matter what it will still need to cater heavily to a crowd that arrives by automobile to succeed. Even many downtown residents will drive there rather than lug bags of groceries for blocks; even if it's only three or four blocks to/from a streetcar stop.

    Frankly, if the street car were extended close to that Homeland location - as a part of an extension to Plaza for instance - I truly believe a high-quality grocery story there COULD reasonably serve as the only supermarket-scale grocery store in the downtown area for years to come. I'm not saying that would be optimal; only that it would be adequate.
    Agree.

    A quality grocery store at 18th and Classen would be a HUGE improvement over having to drive to the Belle Isle Wal-Mart, which many downtown residents currently do. I don't think the population of downtown OKC is currently at a point where a real grocery store could be supported in a neighborhood like Midtown. If it was able to be supported I am sure that somebody would have taken the initiative by now.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Even a significant percentage of those shopping at Native Roots drive there, and it's small and in the middle of the most walkable neighborhood in OKC.

    And any larger store in the central core will be even more reliant on cars.

  21. Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Yep. That's my point here. I'm in no way saying I don't think we will (or should) get a supermarket in downtown proper; heck it could happen next week for all I know. But it will by necessity cater primarily to a driving clientele. As you point out, even Native Roots - which currently is surrounded by the most dense downtown housing we currently have - relies heavily on drive-up traffic, as their parking struggles post-Urban Johnny proves.

  22. #122

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    Agree.

    A quality grocery store at 18th and Classen would be a HUGE improvement over having to drive to the Belle Isle Wal-Mart, which many downtown residents currently do. I don't think the population of downtown OKC is currently at a point where a real grocery store could be supported in a neighborhood like Midtown. If it was able to be supported I am sure that somebody would have taken the initiative by now.
    Do you know the current residential population of downtown?

    I'm not saying 18th and Classen isn't a fabulous location. It's a fabulous location that Homeland has never taken advantage of, and incentives should maybe be reserved for a downtown retail venture.

  23. #123

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    They are talking about spending a couple of million on renovation, so some small tax abatement would probably be worth that in my opinion.

    Even if they ultimately move out, at least the building would be much nicer. The outside looks as bad as the inside and is a blight on the area.


    That location is probably as good as any for a downtown grocer. I know people want to see something in Midtown but this is very close and would also serve the established historic neighborhoods on all sides.

  24. #124

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    It just makes me laugh each time I read another story about an urban grocery store and "just not enough rooftops to support it." No, I don't live in an urban area but suburban. Within 2 miles of my house I have 5 (count them, FIVE) locations of the same King Soopers (Kroger) grocery chain. On top of that, there is a Safeway, an Albertson's, a Sprouts and a huge Whole Foods. This is an area with middle to upper middle incomes but there are NOT 20-30 times the households in the area I live in than are within 2-3 miles of 18th and Classen.

    My guess is the issue with Homeland boils down to income demographics. There are plenty of rooftops and plenty of shoppers but the Homeland management thinks they are mainly the lower middle-incomers and (* * whisper, look around - minorities * * ) are going to buy mainly the essentials with low profit margins and not enough people in the area with enough discretionary money to buy the higher margin items.

    My guess is that if Homeland sunk a few million into a quality remodel and even an expansion, it would be like the Whole Foods up near Chesapeake. The management of the chain mistakenly thinking people in Oklahoma City are too value oriented so they have to wait for an incentive to put in a store. From what I understand and have seen, that Whole Foods is very busy and successful. I bet with the growing population in and near downtown, residential projects under construction and proposed, Homeland would be very successful. Its like the movie, "If you build it, they will come."

  25. #125

    Default Re: Homeland - 18th & Classen

    Quote Originally Posted by mugofbeer View Post
    It just makes me laugh each time I read another story about an urban grocery store and "just not enough rooftops to support it." No, I don't live in an urban area but suburban. Within 2 miles of my house I have 5 (count them, FIVE) locations of the same King Soopers (Kroger) grocery chain. On top of that, there is a Safeway, an Albertson's, a Sprouts and a huge Whole Foods. This is an area with middle to upper middle incomes but there are NOT 20-30 times the households in the area I live in than are within 2-3 miles of 18th and Classen.

    My guess is the issue with Homeland boils down to income demographics. There are plenty of rooftops and plenty of shoppers but the Homeland management thinks they are mainly the lower middle-incomers and (* * whisper, look around - minorities * * ) are going to buy mainly the essentials with low profit margins and not enough people in the area with enough discretionary money to buy the higher margin items.

    My guess is that if Homeland sunk a few million into a quality remodel and even an expansion, it would be like the Whole Foods up near Chesapeake. The management of the chain mistakenly thinking people in Oklahoma City are too value oriented so they have to wait for an incentive to put in a store. From what I understand and have seen, that Whole Foods is very busy and successful. I bet with the growing population in and near downtown, residential projects under construction and proposed, Homeland would be very successful. Its like the movie, "If you build it, they will come."
    Good points. OKC is severely underserved in terms of grocery stores. That is nothing new. I can't think of any other city, larger or smaller, that as few quality grocers per capita as this city does. The 18th and Classen Homeland today pretty much represents the standard for OKC grocery shopping. One of two things will have to happen though before there will be drastic improvement.

    A) A competing national chain with big pockets would need to enter the market. Right now Wal-Mart is running the show in this town with little real competition. A chain like Kroger, Tom Thumb, H-E-B, Publix, etc could actually make stuff happen. They have the capital to expand at a rapid rate unlike the snails pace expansion we are currently seeing from Crest and Buy for Less.
    B) The liquor laws would need to be modernized. Liquor is big profit in states that allow it. Allowing at least beer and wine in grocery stores in Oklahoma would likely very quickly result in more grocery stores and upgrades to existing ones. OKC could probably even support a downtown store if it was like the Harris Teeter in downtown Charlotte, which primarily focuses on a wide selection of beer and wine.

    Due to the fact that neither of those things are in the cards in the near future, there is little hope of real improvement in this area. If I were Crest or Buy for Less, I would take this opportunity to ramp up expansion and put Homeland out of its misery.

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