Out of curiosity, and I'd honestly love to hear your opinion, how would this hurt the park? They're not on park property. To me this is different than the multi family development they were trying to put by Fink park which would have put a dumpster on park property, and taken park parking spaces for visitors.
Agreed. This is why elections are held. I supported this development but obviously I was in the minority. It happens. Maybe they'll try again, or maybe do it in another place, or maybe not at all. Whatever happens, happens. People have their own differing goals and visions for their home cities. It's like beating someone up for being or not being urbanist.
Quite surprised on the result. I figured most residents would be for it, and I still believe that regardless of the results. If you went door to door and asked every voter, I assume that more would be for it than not. The no votes were way more motivated to go vote than those that were for it. What is Edmond's loss is OKC's gain. Im an OKC resident so thats better for me I suppose. But I was still for it because it was going to be kind of a game changer for retail developments in our metro.
Just think of all the new parks or park upgrades Edmond would have been able to do with a few million dollars extra a year in city revenues that would have come from this development. And Hafer would have been the most likely candidate for park upgrades due to the increase of use. Instead that wont happen, and Edmond residents will continue to spend lots of their shopping and entertainment dollars in OKC.
The negative campaign was very effective. A lot of times elections like this are all about turnout. People who were against it were likely far more passionate about that position than those who were for it.
I really hope the OKC metro eventually gets at least one development like this, whether its Chisholm Creek or the Classen Curve expansion. It's frustrating that many of the well thought out and planned developments usually tend to be the ones that get NIMBYed.
The turnout was pretty good for a special election, so I'm not sure an increase would have changed the results much. Mixed use lifestyle center like these can be a hard sell to those who are not familiar with them. They see large footprint (larger than a walmart supercenter) tons of surface parking, and new apartments right next to a major park and our oldest high school. It's not a hard proposition to beat.
I don't know why people are surprised. It's Edmond. Larger development legitimately scares these people, or else they would just live in North OKC.
Furthermore, these wooded parts of Edmond are always going to resist new urbanism tooth and nail. Hafer Park has been an ongoing battle that NIMBY has always won. The only thing that CAN happen in east Edmond is Walmarts and hospitals.
What kind of logic are you using to come up with that? If the nimbys had their way, the city wouldn't be bigger than 10,000 people lol. These people aren't for smart growth. They're not controlled growth. They don't want growth period. They might tell you they do, but it's a lie. They want to be in their little bubble and the less people in it the better.
I wonder how much the recent fight around the Warren near the turnpike affected this vote.
It may have been a case of "we can't control what happens just across our border but we can control what's within it".
This vote wasn't publicized well. The only thing I heard or saw about it (outside of this forum) was for no votes.
I just don't buy that this development would've negatively affected CC. That's a lame argument. Just as lame as the traffic at 15th and Bryant argument. If you don't want all the traffic problems, reprogram the lights. It's that easy. Edmond has horrible programming on their lights. It's all over the city, not just at 15th and Bryant. Fairly easy fix.
I think part of this can be attributed to people just not being familiar with this kind of development. They thought they were just gonna get another crappy strip mall like this one on 2nd st. https://goo.gl/maps/PzvByeQELF72
This kind of development would've shown people what a development could and should be. It would've upped the game for other developers to know that they can't just put up a bunch of ugly boxes. We need more developments like this around so that people will see it and demand better than what they've gotten in the past. We don't need less of these developments for fear that it will compete with another development. CC has to know that other developments like that will come and that they won't be the only game in town. But they know they'll have to do their absolute best in order to succeed.
I do agree that a large part of it has to do with the fact that many Oklahomans, especially those who have never lived anywhere else, don't understand the concept of lifestyle centers and how they differ from a standard strip mall. This is a completely new and unique concept here. It's also kind of hard to believe we are in 2017 and there isn't a single lifestyle center development in the state, in OKC or Tulsa. The closest it gets is the town center in Midwest City and Utica Square, but neither of those are proper mixed-use lifestyle centers. These types of developments are a dime-a-dozen in other states in cities of all sizes. There have been several proposed over the years but all have been NIMBYed or scaled down into more strip mall style developments i.e. Belle Isle, University North Park. Right now, Chisholm Creek is the only sure bet given the vehement NIMBY opposition to the Classen Curve expansion. Hopefully at least one of those actually gets built as planned. I think after people see what these kind of developments actually offer, there will be less opposition to them.
I swear every time I hear the phrase "lifestyle center" I want to punch someone, but something like Southlake Town Center or La Centerra in Katy (not as nice but still better than what OK knows) would be nice to see here.
Well just wait till you want to sell your house at a nice profit to a millienial who has no interest in living Edmond because it went all in on just being a bedroom community. Grow or die, Edmond has chosen the later. There's a real threat Edmond stagnates and starts to decline.
I never liked the term "lifestyle center" back in the mid-aughts when they started springing up everywhere, but after a while it stopped bothering me. Mixed-use development or "town center" are better descriptions in my opinion.
Developments like what was just shot down are exactly the kind of thing suburbs need (and are building) in order to attract millennials (especially with kids) who want a compromise between urban living and traditional suburban life. Given the objection so many have to sending their kids to OKC schools, this kind of thing is especially needed here. I lived right next to one of these developments when I lived in Charlotte and loved it. It wasn't downtown, but it offered the best of both worlds.
If cussing at my neighbors and calling them idiots for disagreeing with me is big time, I'll take small time every time. Definitely not the Oklahoma spirit, much less the Wind spirit.
Voters reject Spring Creek expansion
By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record April 4, 2017
EDMOND – Residents near the Spring Creek Plaza shopping center can breathe a sigh of relief after the center’s proposed expansion was rejected.
Residents voted 65 percent to 35 percent against the expansion, turning down the City Council’s decision.
Poag Shopping Centers’ proposed addition required the council to change the zoning around the center. In November, the council voted 3-1 to approve the site plan and the requested zoning change for the 26-acre addition.
But by January, former Mayor Dan O’Neil had submitted a petition with more than 700 signatures to allow residents to either approve or overturn the council’s decision. The initiative is what put the project on the ballot.
On Tuesday, residents responded to two ballot questions. The first question was to approve or deny amending the Edmond city plan. The second question was to approve or deny the property’s rezoning.
“We’re really thrilled (it was denied),” O’Neil said. “It’s been a long process for us. It was a grass-roots effort. We have a lot of people that were involved in the process. The thing I appreciated was how the community got into the issue and explored it.”
Memphis-based Poag wanted to add 260,000 square feet of new retail to the center at S. Bryant Avenue and E. 15th Street. The company also wanted to construct 325 luxury apartment units.
O’Neil had previously said his group wasn’t against the retail addition. They didn’t want the apartments because they would bring residents who would create additional traffic.
The Edmond Economic Development Authority’s and the Edmond Area Chamber of Commerce’s boards of directors supported the Spring Creek expansion. This was the first time the EEDA took a stance on a development, said Janet Yowell, executive director. Edmond city councilman and board member Nick Massey did not attend the meeting when the board endorsed the project.
The EEDA had been working with Poag for three years on bringing a development to Edmond. Yowell said she’ll continue to promote the city’s available properties.
The city’s hotel and convention center will open this winter, with a Showbiz Cinemas going next door. Yowell said medical centers along Interstate 35 are planning expansions as well.
Yowell said previously there is concern among other developers about neighborhood push-back with their own projects.
“We’ll go back to the drawing board and promote our other properties,” Yowell said.
But O’Neil said developers are welcome if they will construct their project according to the city’s standards.
“Our standards are reasonable,” he said. “We’re the most desired retail market in the state of Oklahoma. People like it that way.”
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