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Thread: Spring Creek Plaza

  1. #251

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Here are the renderings of the new Spring Creek expansion.
    This is very underwhelming compared to the Class A mix use project that was voted down by the city council a couple years back.

    It's frustrating because Edmond had the opportunity to have something unlike anything else in the state, but this is what we got instead.

    spring creek.jpg

  2. #252
    HangryHippo Guest

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Nice letdown.

  3. #253

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Letdown is an understatement. This is infuriating but such is life. Edmonds was offered first class and turned it down. You get what you give.

  4. #254

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it!

  5. #255

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    We may have dodged a bullet, considering the Oil and Gas downturn, Covid, and well, 2020. Sooner/Covell is pretty much sitting still development wise, and Chisholm Creek seems to be going very slowly as well. Who knows if they would have even gotten a grocery or theater and how well it would have filled out, if at all.

    I was really eyeing those apartments if they had happened though.

  6. #256

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Come on Jerry! In the long run the original proposed development would have been a mash hit. Possibly the best shopping development in Oklahoma at this current time if built!

  7. #257

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Come on Jerry! In the long run the original proposed development would have been a mash hit. Possibly the best shopping development in Oklahoma at this current time if built!
    Of course, it would have been disneyland in Edmond and changed everything! Or it would have been UNP. And I'm not sure if you're joking or what, but you know it wouldn't be done and open now if it had been approved, right? It would be a big project in the middle of construction with no anchors. How many theaters do you think are busy wanting to expand or open now?

  8. #258

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    lol what a POS

  9. #259

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Of course, it would have been disneyland in Edmond and changed everything! Or it would have been UNP. And I'm not sure if you're joking or what, but you know it wouldn't be done and open now if it had been approved, right? It would be a big project in the middle of construction with no anchors. How many theaters do you think are busy wanting to expand or open now?
    They had a very aggressive timeline that would have had the entire development open in a year and half from construction start. We likely would have seen the majority of the development finished. Tenants moved in and open is irrelevant. The majority of the development built means it eventually happens regardless.

    Stop playing devils advocate. It’s a weak move. Do you support what was proposed or not? You and me have gotten into it before regarding this and your tone indicated you simply back what the city voted on while providing no opinion of support or not for this so why do you keep coming at me every time I comment? It doesn’t bother me as I love a good debate I am just curious.

    Furthermore, you paint a very polarized tone here. There a single development in the entire state that exists the way this one was planned. So yeah, for the sake of argument, it might as well be Disneyland until another development like is ultimately built. This would have undoubtedly brought in stores that were not in Oklahoma. It absolutely would have been a game changer for the city. Why do you think the city was so vocally supportive of it? Every day the chamber of commerce was supporting it post after post and even having signs at their HQ supporting it. But go ahead and downplay that.

    As for your comments regarding the demise of brick and mortar stores, give me a break. History repeats itself time and time again. Brick and mortar will rise. There is billions of dollars in brick and mortar store malls being built in Los Angeles. Many new department stores and indoor shopping malls being newly built or renovated to the time of billions. Beverly center an indoor shopping center was just renovated to the tune of almost a billion dollars. Brick and mortar retail isn’t going anywhere.

    Shopping malls were overbuilt and the internet happened which the market is correcting and adapting to. But you seem like a very reasonable and intelligent person so I’m sure you are already aware of this. I would really like to know what your beef is with this development.

    I’ll repeat once more. Yes, given the current retail situation in Oklahoma which is absolutely comical, this would have been Disneyland and a game changer for Edmond and the entire metro area. That statement will become less true once OAK opens or CC phase 3(whichever comes first) but Edmond would have been the first and likely the most successful given it has some of the best demographics for high end stores in the metro area.

    Like 18 on Park and Coffee Creek Commercial, Edmond just shoots down anything unique because it’s afraid. These people who opposed it were idiots and I say that due to their claims this would increase crime in Hafer park. What a joke. Edmond is an embarrassment as it is essentially the premier city of Oklahoma and yet it doesn’t hold a candle to premier cities in other states. I say this as a born and raised Edmondnite.

    Before you or anyone else tries to claim I am painting a room and gloom scenario I am not. I firmly believe those like the joke of mayor O Neil will fade out and more intelligent and forward thinking folks will take over soon. I bet Edmond gets many of these types of developments and the downtown becomes among the most vibrant in the state. I also foresee becoming a liberal town. Yes I really believe it. Time will tell.

    PS, re: your theater announcement, theatres will come back and strong. The theater aspect was one of the only commuter anchors they had. You can bet that would have already opened or been at the same phase the new one along Broadway Extension is at. Finished and ready open but delayed. But again, I am sure you already knew this.

  10. #260

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Take a deep breath or get meditate or something. You always take things so far. No one said anything about the death of brick and mortar and let's not unpack all that other stuff. All I said was that with the events of this year we could have seen a stalled project or lots of empty spaces. The economy is in a bit of upheaval if you haven't noticed and who knows when it's going to get back to normal.

    Quit trying to add some moral viewpoint or giant conflict to a simple observation. And you're the only one who's come at anyone here.

  11. #261

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    But Jerry the economy will get back to normal. I respect you and you are one of the most reasonable posters here so you know this. I am only posting an in depth response to understand your position on this because you seem to constantly play the devil’s advocate here. I don’t get it. I come at people who post nonsense(not you) because I loved this original proposed development and it would have been incredible. I’m not trying to bear a dead horse, I get it, but this happens over and over. Good things are happening now and hopefully downtown Edmond will take off. Lots of good stuff happening around Stephenson Park.

  12. #262

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Large projects are higher risk in times of economic uncertainty. Developers also over promise. I've been there before and seen it happen more than once. That's all I'm saying. If anything, it was an attempt to look on the bright side of the voters shooting this down.

  13. #263

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    ^^^ not sure how I missed your reply but that is a fair point.

    Anyhow, I’m back here to post a news article about a development in play near Hafer which I’m guessing is either this entire property or part of it to include commercial and luxury homes. No surprise, there are already efforts underway to block it and a petition is circulating against it.

    https://kfor.com/news/local/proposal...ome-residents/

  14. #264

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Hafer is such a dump of a park. Only in OK do you put a parking lot in the middle of a park

  15. #265

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    Hafer is such a dump of a park. Only in OK do you put a parking lot in the middle of a park
    I agree about the current condition of Hafer. It does need a facelift for sure. The parking though really isn't all that intrusive. It's a suburban park so there has to be parking somewhere. Simply providing street parking along Bryant would be a non starter.

    There is that huge parking lot at the baseball fields but it gets packed during game days. One idea would be to completely remodel that lot, grade it, and turn the existing road and parking spots in Hafer into fine gravel to give the park more of a natural setting and encourage people to park at the main lots. But highly unlikely that happens either.

    This situation is just laughable. At this point the city might as well buy that lot and expand Hafer to shut these dumbasses up. I mean the land is zoned for development so what are they expecting? Just more NIMBYs opposing everything. This developer seems like he genuinely wants to be diplomatic and talk to the neighbors about it which is good but I doubt it sways many if anyone.

    The rendering from what I saw in the video looked pretty interesting and unlike anything currently offered in Edmond.

  16. #266

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    Hafer is such a dump of a park. Only in OK do you put a parking lot in the middle of a park
    Well you are correct about it being a dump. Before being a park it was the sewer treatment plant and city dump.

  17. #267
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    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    I agree about the current condition of Hafer. It does need a facelift for sure. The parking though really isn't all that intrusive. It's a suburban park so there has to be parking somewhere. Simply providing street parking along Bryant would be a non starter.

    There is that huge parking lot at the baseball fields but it gets packed during game days. One idea would be to completely remodel that lot, grade it, and turn the existing road and parking spots in Hafer into fine gravel to give the park more of a natural setting and encourage people to park at the main lots. But highly unlikely that happens either.

    This situation is just laughable. At this point the city might as well buy that lot and expand Hafer to shut these dumbasses up. I mean the land is zoned for development so what are they expecting? Just more NIMBYs opposing everything. This developer seems like he genuinely wants to be diplomatic and talk to the neighbors about it which is good but I doubt it sways many if anyone.

    The rendering from what I saw in the video looked pretty interesting and unlike anything currently offered in Edmond.
    Why do you and so many get so distressed when people want to have some control over their neighborhoods? They are just exercising their rights. If most of the neighborhood feels they want it otherwise, they need to speak up too. It seems like it is always those from OUTSIDE the neighborhood that wants to control a neighborhood that isn't theirs. The same people who seem to be against these neighborhoods controlling themselves seem to be the same ones who are broadly against gentrification in older neighborhoods. Local people get affected and want to protect their chosen lifestyle. That is normal.

    People should support their philosophies by moving to areas that are compatible and be involved. When demand is shown then growth happens.

  18. #268

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Rover what is going on with this property doesn’t seem normal. Even mid rises can built in Beverly Hills and Edmond can’t support a 4 story luxury apartment complex with a high end shopping center?

    It’s angering because at the end of the day the city went through the process and ridiculous petition was circulated with a small percentage of the city really voting on it. That brings the scope of influence outside of just the neighborhood which these things affect the entire city.

    At the end of the day it isn’t neighborhoods simply wanting a say in what goes nearby. It’s an attempt to no to every proposal. Unless they buy the property, eventually we’ll get a typical cookie cutter strip mall by a developer that will see quick and fast ROI with little planning. Par for the course in Edmond which really doesn’t stand well against other premier suburbs around the country.

  19. #269

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    At this point the city might as well buy that lot and expand Hafer to shut these dumbasses up. I mean the land is zoned for development so what are they expecting? Just more NIMBYs opposing everything. This developer seems like he genuinely wants to be diplomatic and talk to the neighbors about it which is good but I doubt it sways many if anyone.
    So I actually had this thought. If so many folks are so concerned about protecting the creek, tree-line, and the park, then get some initiative going for the city to purchase that land and add it to the park. It seems like a decent solution. Especially considering that one of the biggest opposition leaders to development in this area is on the council (well, for now, although not much longer). While I like the idea of something cool going in there, I'd be fine with expanding the park, and protecting that nature core in the middle of the city. It's easier to expand it now than wish we did later and end up with a meat company's parking lot in the middle of our nice central park.

    On this project itself, I'm actually rather disappointed by this new direction they're taking. It feels less like a mixed use development, and more like just adding a gated community to the back of the shopping center. Maybe the execution will be better than what I'm seeing, but I certainly liked the original proposal more (and would have considered moving there in the near future once my kids are out of the house).

  20. #270

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    I’m wondering if the city would consider it themselves to just dead the issue. I don’t think constantly shutting down developments would be good for the city image. Those people nearby wouldn’t complain anymore and the city would have more park space. Win win in this scenario really.

  21. #271

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    More NIMBYs bullsh!t from Edmond. This election we get two, count em, two initiatives for voters to override the council they voted in and approved development for multi family and Hafer adjacent development.

    https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...9v3xgzMfOTXTYE

    I guess the good news is that if approved we won’t have to hear about exciting developments proposed only to be overturned by morons who don’t want their little bubble popped. Just imagine if the original proposed development would have been approved. It likely would have been fully built by now. Hafer park is already a massive park as is and run down but this part of the city needs an even bigger park while other parts of the city have no parks.

    The next door threads in Edmond are just comical. After 18 on Fink, the original spring creek expansion, the fox lake hotels, and the Coffee Creek Golf Course Development, all quality projects, killed and add these two new large developments if successfully killed there is no way developers won’t take notice.

  22. #272

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    More NIMBYs bullsh!t from Edmond. This election we get two, count em, two initiatives for voters to override the council they voted in and approved development for multi family and Hafer adjacent development.

    https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news...9v3xgzMfOTXTYE

    I guess the good news is that if approved we won’t have to hear about exciting developments proposed only to be overturned by morons who don’t want their little bubble popped. Just imagine if the original proposed development would have been approved. It likely would have been fully built by now. Hafer park is already a massive park as is and run down but this part of the city needs an even bigger park while other parts of the city have no parks.

    The next door threads in Edmond are just comical. After 18 on Fink, the original spring creek expansion, the fox lake hotels, and the Coffee Creek Golf Course Development, all quality projects, killed and add these two new large developments if successfully killed there is no way developers won’t take notice.
    This whole "Save Hafer Park" non-sense is a real hot button issue for me. I use that park regularly, and more than the average Edmondite.

    Two days before the City Council was to vote on it, there was a large plywood signs with "Save Hafer Park" on it and a bin full of flyers on neon paper. The flyers explained how the development tract "looks like Darth Vader's helmet" (that was a stretch) and how people getting married at the Duck Pond would have apartments as the back drop for their wedding photos. The also said "We've been fighting development on this tract for 15 years". Good for you, but why haven't you all done something in 15 years other than whine and complain. There were a few potentially valid criticisms including drainage, traffic and a lack of any landscaping on the site plan. But those are all things covered under building and zoning codes and is irrelevant. It was mostly fear mongering and really set me off. It really felt like they were using "Save Hafer Park" to mislead citizens that the big bad developer was going to ruin the park instead of having their argument stand on its own merits.

    The worst part was, on two separate occasions my fiancé had people tell her in so many words "They are going to turn Hafer Park into apartments". The first time was an employee at Office Depot in Edmond where they had the flyers printed and the second time was at the UCO design lab. Fortunately, she set them straight, but how many misinformed Edmondite's will vote no because they think this is about Hafer Park instead of a vacant tract on the other side of the creek.

  23. #273

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    ^^^ I suspect a lot of votes from the last proposal were people who in good faith just wanted to support these neighbors without really knowing the full extent of the situation. Still I support democracy and the process whether it aligns the way I want it to or not. I still call it bullsh!t how Edmond NIMBYS try every tactic including going under the elected representatives to call a vote for a specific private project. I’ve rarely ever seen it done elsewhere in the way it’s done in Edmond and this crap happens seemingly regularly now. It’s ridiculous.

    Yes, the fear mongering is just over the top from what I’ve ever personally seen elsewhere. These people are so disingenuous and fake it’s sad. They claim it’s about this or that aspect but POAG, the last developer, went out of their way to address concerns with surrounding neighbors and they just didn’t want to hear it. I completely agree all this time spent seems like more than enough for one of these to step up and buy the land or do something other than cost the city of Edmond tax dollars.

    I bet POAG never considers anywhere in the metro again after having spent all that money coming up with engineering and site plans for a project other communities would kill to have only to get it blocked by low voter turnout tactics.

  24. #274

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Here is an excerpt from the 2018 Norman Business Conditions Report:

    The weaknesses identified by Norman employers were: the ability to attract talent, city planning and permitting, and general community issues including perceived no growth mentality and infighting.
    It is obvious that these kind of issues are a hinderance to the City of Norman. I can't imagine Edmond employers feel differently. I love Edmond and want to see them thrive, but I think they are hurting themselves.

  25. #275

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    I said it before and I’ll say it again, it’s a matter of time before a city takes a Dallas suburb like mentality and embraces growth. It could Yukon or El Reno or Guthrie or Jones… etc. there’s dozens around the metro and it only takes one of them to do it and with the right ingredients they will capitalize off the no growth mentality Norman and Edmond possess.

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