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  1. #201

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jjjumper View Post
    Based upon the voter turnout, the signatures needed on a petition goes up to over 2300 until the next local election.
    Good now let's hope they tweak it get it approved and hope exhaustion sets in for the opposition

  2. #202

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorba View Post
    Everyone has different priorities. Out of everywhere in the OKC metro, I chose to live in Edmond due to the parks. If the Edmond parks weren't here, there is a pretty low likelihood I would've accepted my job in OKC and would've relocated to DFW or ATL instead of OKC. I understand a lot of people wanted this, and I understand, development can bring in a lot of great things and opportunities.

    At the end of the day, it is mostly speculation, opinion and emotion, because no one knows for sure what the final result would be until it happens. In this cause I erred on the side of scepticism while you and others erred on the side of optimism. Doesn't mean we are different teams, we just disagree on one specific item due to having different priorities and experiences.

    I am definitely not against development, I am just hardcore when it comes to protecting public parks.
    Out of curiosity, and I'd honestly love to hear your opinion, how would this hurt the park? They're not on park property. To me this is different than the multi family development they were trying to put by Fink park which would have put a dumpster on park property, and taken park parking spaces for visitors.

  3. #203

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    Wow. F*ck Edmond. I'm surrounded by idiots.
    Wow. This sounds like something out of Washington DC. Too bad we can't simply say, "I don't agree". Just wow.

  4. #204

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bucktalk View Post
    Wow. This sounds like something out of Washington DC. Too bad we can't simply say, "I don't agree". Just wow.
    Agreed. This is why elections are held. I supported this development but obviously I was in the minority. It happens. Maybe they'll try again, or maybe do it in another place, or maybe not at all. Whatever happens, happens. People have their own differing goals and visions for their home cities. It's like beating someone up for being or not being urbanist.

  5. #205

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bucktalk View Post
    Wow. This sounds like something out of Washington DC. Too bad we can't simply say, "I don't agree". Just wow.
    Makes Edmond sound like the ghetto or something. Love them or hate them the rich NIMBY people in Edmond helped it get to where it is.

  6. #206

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quite surprised on the result. I figured most residents would be for it, and I still believe that regardless of the results. If you went door to door and asked every voter, I assume that more would be for it than not. The no votes were way more motivated to go vote than those that were for it. What is Edmond's loss is OKC's gain. Im an OKC resident so thats better for me I suppose. But I was still for it because it was going to be kind of a game changer for retail developments in our metro.

    Just think of all the new parks or park upgrades Edmond would have been able to do with a few million dollars extra a year in city revenues that would have come from this development. And Hafer would have been the most likely candidate for park upgrades due to the increase of use. Instead that wont happen, and Edmond residents will continue to spend lots of their shopping and entertainment dollars in OKC.

  7. #207

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    The negative campaign was very effective. A lot of times elections like this are all about turnout. People who were against it were likely far more passionate about that position than those who were for it.

    I really hope the OKC metro eventually gets at least one development like this, whether its Chisholm Creek or the Classen Curve expansion. It's frustrating that many of the well thought out and planned developments usually tend to be the ones that get NIMBYed.

  8. #208

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    The turnout was pretty good for a special election, so I'm not sure an increase would have changed the results much. Mixed use lifestyle center like these can be a hard sell to those who are not familiar with them. They see large footprint (larger than a walmart supercenter) tons of surface parking, and new apartments right next to a major park and our oldest high school. It's not a hard proposition to beat.

  9. #209

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    I don't know why people are surprised. It's Edmond. Larger development legitimately scares these people, or else they would just live in North OKC.

    Furthermore, these wooded parts of Edmond are always going to resist new urbanism tooth and nail. Hafer Park has been an ongoing battle that NIMBY has always won. The only thing that CAN happen in east Edmond is Walmarts and hospitals.

  10. #210

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    Good now let's hope they tweak it get it approved and hope exhaustion sets in for the opposition
    I was informed the developer will now look elsewhere in metro for this. Edmond lost a good opportunity. Now this land will be turned into tract housing and they can't protest that as it's currently zoned for it.

  11. #211

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    The turnout was pretty good for a special election, so I'm not sure an increase would have changed the results much. Mixed use lifestyle center like these can be a hard sell to those who are not familiar with them. They see large footprint (larger than a walmart supercenter) tons of surface parking, and new apartments right next to a major park and our oldest high school. It's not a hard proposition to beat.
    You also have to remember, the turnout was decent for a special election, but there was a mayor to be elected. So I still think turnout was horrible in the big picture.

  12. #212

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jn1780 View Post
    Makes Edmond sound like the ghetto or something. Love them or hate them the rich NIMBY people in Edmond helped it get to where it is.
    What kind of logic are you using to come up with that? If the nimbys had their way, the city wouldn't be bigger than 10,000 people lol. These people aren't for smart growth. They're not controlled growth. They don't want growth period. They might tell you they do, but it's a lie. They want to be in their little bubble and the less people in it the better.

  13. #213

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    You also have to remember, the turnout was decent for a special election, but there was a mayor to be elected. So I still think turnout was horrible in the big picture.
    Well, sort of. The other candidate had dropped out, so it was basically an unopposed election.

  14. Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    What kind of logic are you using to come up with that? If the nimbys had their way, the city wouldn't be bigger than 10,000 people lol. These people aren't for smart growth. They're not controlled growth. They don't want growth period. They might tell you they do, but it's a lie. They want to be in their little bubble and the less people in it the better.
    I live in Edmond and I wanted this development. You sound silly when you make generalized statements like this.

  15. #215

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    I wonder how much the recent fight around the Warren near the turnpike affected this vote.

    It may have been a case of "we can't control what happens just across our border but we can control what's within it".

  16. #216

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by worthy cook View Post
    I live in Edmond and I wanted this development. You sound silly when you make generalized statements like this.
    How so?

  17. #217

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Well, sort of. The other candidate had dropped out, so it was basically an unopposed election.
    You know I had forgotten about that.

  18. #218

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    This vote wasn't publicized well. The only thing I heard or saw about it (outside of this forum) was for no votes.

    I just don't buy that this development would've negatively affected CC. That's a lame argument. Just as lame as the traffic at 15th and Bryant argument. If you don't want all the traffic problems, reprogram the lights. It's that easy. Edmond has horrible programming on their lights. It's all over the city, not just at 15th and Bryant. Fairly easy fix.

    I think part of this can be attributed to people just not being familiar with this kind of development. They thought they were just gonna get another crappy strip mall like this one on 2nd st. https://goo.gl/maps/PzvByeQELF72
    This kind of development would've shown people what a development could and should be. It would've upped the game for other developers to know that they can't just put up a bunch of ugly boxes. We need more developments like this around so that people will see it and demand better than what they've gotten in the past. We don't need less of these developments for fear that it will compete with another development. CC has to know that other developments like that will come and that they won't be the only game in town. But they know they'll have to do their absolute best in order to succeed.

  19. #219

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    I do agree that a large part of it has to do with the fact that many Oklahomans, especially those who have never lived anywhere else, don't understand the concept of lifestyle centers and how they differ from a standard strip mall. This is a completely new and unique concept here. It's also kind of hard to believe we are in 2017 and there isn't a single lifestyle center development in the state, in OKC or Tulsa. The closest it gets is the town center in Midwest City and Utica Square, but neither of those are proper mixed-use lifestyle centers. These types of developments are a dime-a-dozen in other states in cities of all sizes. There have been several proposed over the years but all have been NIMBYed or scaled down into more strip mall style developments i.e. Belle Isle, University North Park. Right now, Chisholm Creek is the only sure bet given the vehement NIMBY opposition to the Classen Curve expansion. Hopefully at least one of those actually gets built as planned. I think after people see what these kind of developments actually offer, there will be less opposition to them.

  20. #220

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    I swear every time I hear the phrase "lifestyle center" I want to punch someone, but something like Southlake Town Center or La Centerra in Katy (not as nice but still better than what OK knows) would be nice to see here.

  21. #221

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bucktalk View Post
    Wow. This sounds like something out of Washington DC. Too bad we can't simply say, "I don't agree". Just wow.
    Well just wait till you want to sell your house at a nice profit to a millienial who has no interest in living Edmond because it went all in on just being a bedroom community. Grow or die, Edmond has chosen the later. There's a real threat Edmond stagnates and starts to decline.

  22. #222

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bradh View Post
    I swear every time I hear the phrase "lifestyle center" I want to punch someone, but something like Southlake Town Center or La Centerra in Katy (not as nice but still better than what OK knows) would be nice to see here.
    I never liked the term "lifestyle center" back in the mid-aughts when they started springing up everywhere, but after a while it stopped bothering me. Mixed-use development or "town center" are better descriptions in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    Well just wait till you want to sell your house at a nice profit to a millienial who has no interest in living Edmond because it went all in on just being a bedroom community. Grow or die, Edmond has chosen the later. There's a real threat Edmond stagnates and starts to decline.
    Developments like what was just shot down are exactly the kind of thing suburbs need (and are building) in order to attract millennials (especially with kids) who want a compromise between urban living and traditional suburban life. Given the objection so many have to sending their kids to OKC schools, this kind of thing is especially needed here. I lived right next to one of these developments when I lived in Charlotte and loved it. It wasn't downtown, but it offered the best of both worlds.

  23. #223

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by gopokes88 View Post
    Well just wait till you want to sell your house at a nice profit to a millienial who has no interest in living Edmond because it went all in on just being a bedroom community. Grow or die, Edmond has chosen the later. There's a real threat Edmond stagnates and starts to decline.
    I wouldn't put too much faith into what Bucktalk says. Seems like small town mentality to be honest. I agree with you said.

    It's very disheartening what happened at least for me since I care a great deal about Edmond.

  24. #224

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    If cussing at my neighbors and calling them idiots for disagreeing with me is big time, I'll take small time every time. Definitely not the Oklahoma spirit, much less the Wind spirit.

  25. #225

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Voters reject Spring Creek expansion

    By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record April 4, 2017

    EDMOND – Residents near the Spring Creek Plaza shopping center can breathe a sigh of relief after the center’s proposed expansion was rejected.

    Residents voted 65 percent to 35 percent against the expansion, turning down the City Council’s decision.

    Poag Shopping Centers’ proposed addition required the council to change the zoning around the center. In November, the council voted 3-1 to approve the site plan and the requested zoning change for the 26-acre addition.

    But by January, former Mayor Dan O’Neil had submitted a petition with more than 700 signatures to allow residents to either approve or overturn the council’s decision. The initiative is what put the project on the ballot.

    On Tuesday, residents responded to two ballot questions. The first question was to approve or deny amending the Edmond city plan. The second question was to approve or deny the property’s rezoning.

    “We’re really thrilled (it was denied),” O’Neil said. “It’s been a long process for us. It was a grass-roots effort. We have a lot of people that were involved in the process. The thing I appreciated was how the community got into the issue and explored it.”

    Memphis-based Poag wanted to add 260,000 square feet of new retail to the center at S. Bryant Avenue and E. 15th Street. The company also wanted to construct 325 luxury apartment units.

    O’Neil had previously said his group wasn’t against the retail addition. They didn’t want the apartments because they would bring residents who would create additional traffic.

    The Edmond Economic Development Authority’s and the Edmond Area Chamber of Commerce’s boards of directors supported the Spring Creek expansion. This was the first time the EEDA took a stance on a development, said Janet Yowell, executive director. Edmond city councilman and board member Nick Massey did not attend the meeting when the board endorsed the project.

    The EEDA had been working with Poag for three years on bringing a development to Edmond. Yowell said she’ll continue to promote the city’s available properties.

    The city’s hotel and convention center will open this winter, with a Showbiz Cinemas going next door. Yowell said medical centers along Interstate 35 are planning expansions as well.

    Yowell said previously there is concern among other developers about neighborhood push-back with their own projects.

    “We’ll go back to the drawing board and promote our other properties,” Yowell said.

    But O’Neil said developers are welcome if they will construct their project according to the city’s standards.

    “Our standards are reasonable,” he said. “We’re the most desired retail market in the state of Oklahoma. People like it that way.”

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