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  1. #101

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bucktalk View Post
    A concern I have about this proposed development is the awareness that keeping long term retail tenants is nearly impossible. In fact Spring Creek (west) shopping is half empty half the time. I've talked to a few retailers who end up leaving because the lease rate is ridiculously high. I don't think Spring Creek as ever been 100% leased for an extended time. So if another Spring Creek is developed it could create a worse case scenario with a lot of new but empty buildings. For some reason I worry this proposed development would feel like Branson shopping feels (near the waterway) during the off season. Feels very strange.
    Another good point to make is that availability of retail space in Edmond. There is TONS of available space. There are half empty shopping centers all over town. Look at 150th and Western. The one on the north side is mostly empty. The one on the south side is more filled, but it's got stuff like a rub and tug massage parlour. Quality of life indeed!

  2. #102

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    If you agree with the trend of increased 'retail' through online shopping (Note: some malls and major retail stores struggling as a result) then it's not practical to build a zillion and one more square footage of retail space. It seems to me you have to think in a 10-20 year time frame regarding retail space. Who knows? But if you don't keep up with trends you're making a mistake. Maybe in 10-20 years brick and mortar retail spaces will double their vacancy due to vast online shopping? If I were an investor.....retail shopping spaces would not be a part of my investment portfolio!

  3. #103

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Another good point to make is that availability of retail space in Edmond. There is TONS of available space. There are half empty shopping centers all over town. Look at 150th and Western. The one on the north side is mostly empty. The one on the south side is more filled, but it's got stuff like a rub and tug massage parlour. Quality of life indeed!
    This point shouldnt have any bearing on whether you are for or against this. The tons of available space will remain available regardless of whether expansion of spring creek plaza does or does not get built. Its likely that no retailer that would lease space in the new lifestyle center would lease space at 150th and western, or any current available space in Edmond. What is proposed is just on a completely different level than what is already out there in OKC, and certainly Edmond. You cant expect to get these mall type tenants to take space that is already available and scattered throughout town.

  4. #104

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    I think it will depend on what anchors they have, and how much retail space they put in...

  5. #105

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    My post wasn't directed at you, but since you ask, your comment that there's no reason to even be skeptical? That's naive and absurd. I guess we could just automatically approve everything with no review, based on your statements.
    Ah, well given our past I assumed it was directed at me and I'm sorry I took it that way.

    I never once said we should automatically approve anything. Please tell me exactly where I said that and I'll take it back because that is not even close to what I think. I'm almost just as mad at the city for allowing a tin shack to be built at the corner of Coltrane and Danforth. The city sure loves small projects that scattered across the city.


    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Edmond overwhelmingly approves new developments.
    Yeah, they do. That's the problem. Not to mention the fact that as 'onthestrip" pointed out that you can't compare this development to other ones around the city because no such type of development exists. As he said, the tenants going in here won't be going into a development like at 150th and western, or Bryant Square, or Broadway and 33rd, or basically anything that exists in Edmond and even probably 99% of the metro.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Look at stuff downtown. Or on 5th and broadway. Or at I-35 and Covell. Or at Kelly and Covell, or along I-35 near 15th. Or at 100s of other spots around town. Denials are the exception, not the rule, and they're usually for a good reason.
    Here's my take on that. People here are complaining about traffic because it will in a localized area. Will traffic become an issue around here? Sure. It's a city. What do you expect? My view on it is, they are approving all of this other stuff scattered around the city as you graciously pointed out, and instead of that being in a local area instead of sprawled out, you've just made traffic for an area much larger than what this would have been worse.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    So just taking the time, being skeptical, and reviewing the process IS smart.
    Okay so I simply disagree with you then on what this is about. It isn't about taking the time to review it! You really think these people getting pamphlets about what's about to be built here that get upset and want to talk about it are going to be talking with their wife, husband, friend, or whoever about reviewing it and be a bit skeptical? I don't buy that. I think they're just against it because they don't want traffic bad in their area.

    I understand that. No one does. But where is this going to get built? Not to mention the tax dollars this will take with it should the developer leave.

    Let's be honest with ourselves here: there is no place in Edmond that they could have gone other than maybe Covell(it's still completely rational to think it would have been just as heavily protested there) that wouldn't have been protested just as much if not more than what's happening here. I can't wait to see how much protests the Covell and Kelly project is going to get.

    Again, short and simple... I firmly believe these people are just nimbys. Not in my backyard. No other reason than they don't to do deal with the negatives that come with suburban growth. It's understandable that one wouldn't want that but also argued the other way living in a large city comes with that.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    It's amazing. The same posters I see posting in other OKC threads about bad developments, or buildings not high enough, or ugly designs, or poor use, or whatever, will come in here and complain that Edmond doesn't just rubber stamp every development.
    I honestly have no idea how to even respond to this. Those are people who don't like bad developments. This isn't a bad development. This is OKCTalk, not Edmond Talk. There is an Edmond forum. Not everyone on this website cares about Edmond. Edmond does basically rubber stamp every development. Those are sprawled out strip malls, subdivisions, etc. that if placed near the core are the same kind of bad developments they bitch about. However I suspect if this project was proposed in OKC it would be met with great praise especially if it were closer to the core.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Well, I say "good". Of course, I live here and I am personally invested in Edmond remaining it's status as one of, if not the best, suburb in Oklahoma. We have standards.
    I absolutely agree with it being the best suburb in Oklahoma. Don't think many others are going to argue that especially when it comes to income. But also remember what state we're talking about here. Plop Edmond California, Texas, New York, Arizona, Oregon, Washington, Florida, Missouri, Kansas, Minnesota, Michigan, Nevada.. get the point(?) and Edmond quickly becomes a second rate suburb.

    Look man, I get people's frustrations though I personally believe they aren't warranted to stop a development like this that will benefit the entire metro. Traffic improvements are being made. New landscaping will be added. Sound barriers are going in place. New stores that don't exist in Oklahoma are coming to the market. Sales and property taxes will go up around this development. Edmond's destination of premier shopping will get much closer to a reality. Improvements to Hafer Park including a new bridge ramp for people that will live in this community will go to for their backyard will come to fruition. This will make the park safer by having good citizens eye 24 hours instead of daytime only. This is a great thing. The benefits outweigh the negatives.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    The fact that the planning commission and city council approved the layout of the 'tin buildings' at Coltrane and Danforth is incredibly disappointing! I have nothing against storage facilities but dang....that layout for the size of property it sits on is horrible. I want to ask the planning commission and city council, "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING??"

  7. #107

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bucktalk View Post
    The fact that the planning commission and city council approved the layout of the 'tin buildings' at Coltrane and Danforth is incredibly disappointing! I have nothing against storage facilities but dang....that layout for the size of property it sits on is horrible. I want to ask the planning commission and city council, "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING??"
    This is why the so called NIMBYs are a good thing. People local to that area didn't complain. Local pushback helps the planning commission and council take a second look at things.

  8. #108

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    I do recall those in the neighborhood to the north complained but apparently not loud enough. I think the city of Edmond gives mixed messages. At times they are all about 'image' with being mandatory about of 'greenscape' and other landscape requirements on a building lot. But at other times, like the massive metal storage facility, its like the city looks the other way to what is an obvious 'wrong buildings on the wrong location'. I don't get it. I guess they are consistent with their inconsistency.

  9. #109

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bucktalk View Post
    I do recall those in the neighborhood to the north complained but apparently not loud enough. I think the city of Edmond gives mixed messages. At times they are all about 'image' with being mandatory about of 'greenscape' and other landscape requirements on a building lot. But at other times, like the massive metal storage facility, its like the city looks the other way to what is an obvious 'wrong buildings on the wrong location'. I don't get it. I guess they are consistent with their inconsistency.
    A lot of it has to do when lawyer mclawyer former mayor gets involved.

  10. #110

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bucktalk View Post
    The fact that the planning commission and city council approved the layout of the 'tin buildings' at Coltrane and Danforth is incredibly disappointing! I have nothing against storage facilities but dang....that layout for the size of property it sits on is horrible. I want to ask the planning commission and city council, "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING??"
    Agree 100%. I am just praying that a brick wall goes up around the whole thing or some brick veneer on the outside of the metal. There is a fairly new storage facility on the east side of I35 near the Tpke and it has dark grey brick veneer it looks like and it mutes the whole scene nicely. I have already let my voice be heard on the Coltrane/Danforth development. Really, really disappointing site.

  11. #111

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrator View Post
    Agree 100%. I am just praying that a brick wall goes up around the whole thing or some brick veneer on the outside of the metal. There is a fairly new storage facility on the east side of I35 near the Tpke and it has dark grey brick veneer it looks like and it mutes the whole scene nicely. I have already let my voice be heard on the Coltrane/Danforth development. Really, really disappointing site.
    From the original meeting agenda item: "The landscaping has been designed to place almost all the required landscaping and plant units along Coltrane Road or Danforth in a 10 foot wide landscape area immediately against the masonry wall of the building." There is also a rendering on page 3 of this link: http://agenda.edmondok.com:8085/docs...%20ccA6-22.pdf.

  12. #112

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    The major issue I have with the storage building eyesore is lack of building set back from the street. What the heck? Rarely do you see the city of Edmond allowing a building to encroached a sidewide or street. How in the world did building set back issues get ignored or approved???

  13. #113

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bucktalk View Post
    The major issue I have with the storage building eyesore is lack of building set back from the street. What the heck? Rarely do you see the city of Edmond allowing a building to encroached a sidewide or street. How in the world did building set back issues get ignored or approved???
    Here is the video of the discussion from the city website: http://edmondok.swagit.com/play/06222015-853/#59

  14. #114

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jjjumper View Post
    Here is the video of the discussion from the city website: http://edmondok.swagit.com/play/06222015-853/#59
    Thank you. I feel better about things now. Not great, but better.

  15. #115

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    I was walking around Spring Creek Village (the one on the west side of Bryant) this weekend with my daughter and noticed a lot of empty storefronts.

  16. #116

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by traxx View Post
    I was walking around Spring Creek Village (the one on the west side of Bryant) this weekend with my daughter and noticed a lot of empty storefronts.
    The difference between Spring Creek Village and Spring Creek Plaza is startling.

  17. #117

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    By the way, the city council should have voted last night on whether to hold a vote on April 4th for this development. I haven't seen any official announcement post meeting, but considering that the signatures were counted and verified, I expect it was pretty much automatic. So if you support this (and live in Edmond) don't forget to vote (or oppose it I guess - but I'd rather you stay home in that case )

  18. #118

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    By the way, the city council should have voted last night on whether to hold a vote on April 4th for this development. I haven't seen any official announcement post meeting, but considering that the signatures were counted and verified, I expect it was pretty much automatic. So if you support this (and live in Edmond) don't forget to vote (or oppose it I guess - but I'd rather you stay home in that case )

    The ones who oppose this, will more than likely have the higher voter turnout.

  19. #119

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Filthy View Post
    The ones who oppose this, will more than likely have the higher voter turnout.
    Agreed, if it's the only thing on the ballot. That's why I hope they stay home.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    The difference between Spring Creek Village and Spring Creek Plaza is startling.
    Are they managed by different companies? Village is every bit as nice look as Plaza so I can't think of any other reason it would be such a stark difference.

  21. #121

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by traxx View Post
    Are they managed by different companies? Village is every bit as nice look as Plaza so I can't think of any other reason it would be such a stark difference.
    I'm pretty sure they are. I know Village was sold by the original developer a few years ago. Look at the 2016 EEDA report though, there's not as much of a difference as I thought. It looks like Village has a vacancy of just over 15%, while Plaza has one of just over 7%.

  22. #122

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    We are very much in favor of this project being built and we definitely be voting.

  23. #123

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Given Edmonds history would point to this project being voted down.

  24. #124

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    My post wasn't directed at you, but since you ask, your comment that there's no reason to even be skeptical? That's naive and absurd. I guess we could just automatically approve everything with no review, based on your statements.

    Edmond overwhelmingly approves new developments. Look at stuff downtown. Or on 5th and broadway. Or at I-35 and Covell. Or at Kelly and Covell, or along I-35 near 15th. Or at 100s of other spots around town. Denials are the exception, not the rule, and they're usually for a good reason. So just taking the time, being skeptical, and reviewing the process IS smart. It's amazing. The same posters I see posting in other OKC threads about bad developments, or buildings not high enough, or ugly designs, or poor use, or whatever, will come in here and complain that Edmond doesn't just rubber stamp every development. Well, I say "good". Of course, I live here and I am personally invested in Edmond remaining it's status as one of, if not the best, suburb in Oklahoma. We have standards.
    Edmond certainly allows a lot of shoddy development to move forward, but anything that attracts too much attention never goes over well.

  25. #125

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
    Edmond certainly allows a lot of shoddy development to move forward, but anything that attracts too much attention never goes over well.
    +1

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