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  1. #76

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    I posted this on my facebook how I think this is a great project and I had some heated comments generated.
    Edmond residents LOVE to protest commercial projects. Especially if one tree is cut down!

  2. #77

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by OklahomaNick View Post
    I posted this on my facebook how I think this is a great project and I had some heated comments generated.
    Edmond residents LOVE to protest commercial projects. Especially if one tree is cut down!
    Here's the one thing I could say negative about this. I'm old enough to remember when that entire intersection was all residential. When they started to try to convert the NW corner from residential to commercial (my uncles house was there) they promised it would be a limited thing. Then they rezoned the space across 15th to office, and then they did the original spring creek. My best friends house was on the land where this is going, and it will produce a lot of noise pollution that wasn't the case 20 years ago. You're also increasing traffic close to a school where kids walk, and a park and the aquatic center, which is an issue.

    That being said, this ship has long since sailed. I had a similar adjustment in my area, where when I bought my house 15 years ago the local streets were two lane, there was no commercial development, and the major intersections were stop signs. Now they're 4 lane, lights, tons of traffic, and tons of commercial and office development. Oh, and now FEDEX is putting in a large distribution center.

  3. #78

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Well here you go. another tactic which they used about the electronic sign ordinance to try and rely on low voter turnout. This country is not a democracy. We don't vote on everything. Why is it that Edmond will let all of these half ass developments go through sprawling the entire city as well as cheap, cookie cutter neighborhoods, and that is all fine and dandy.

    But then when you get quality developments that will truly bring in a really good amount of tax revenue for the space that is being occupied while making the area safer like 18 on Fink(mind you, this is where the developer basically said f this and walked out and took their development to another city that actually wanted quality development), they get voted down or the developer just gives up. Then the city clearly shows they are in the wrong denying developments like the Walmart(Coltrane and Covell). Oh, and then the city goes and builds a new Convention Hotel and Conference Center on I-35 and Covell with sh!tty fast food places surrounding it and a movie theatre, grocery store, gas station, and sports complex because it isn't like there is no room downtown to build it. No, lets go the cheap route and build out on the interstate where the road is currently two lanes, but since the proposal isn't as bold as it is, that's perfectly okay because the businesses will gradually pop up so traffic won't get bad. Wait...

    I mean seriously, are people that stupid? I just don't get why all of these developments around the city continue to pop up on the fringes and though they're smaller developments, no one complains about traffic. As soon as you get a quality development in an area that already has the infrastructure, BAM, well as the Joker says, everyone loses their minds!

    Also, I shared this on Facebook awhile back and it got hundreds of likes and almost one hundred shares. No one commented anything negative. When I was in Oklahoma over the holidays, I spoke with several people in the city and they didn't say anything negative. Not saying who, but I know and talked to several prominent developers in Edmond and OKC, and they didn't say nor did they hear anything negative about this project. So where the f@ck are 900 people coming from? I realize that isn't that much in a city of 90k, but I haven't even seen anything negative commented on the internet and now this former mayor has 900 people against a project that would bring quality retail and a development other cities would kill for. I'm beginning to think this guy just has a following of a certain group of people that would like for Edmond to just stop growing. I would be very interested in seeing the neighborhoods of where these signatures came from.

    My guess is that a good majority will come from the surrounding area as the selfish people don't want "their pretty little world" changed and then rest being some weird following this guy probably has scattered around Edmond. I'm furious to even read this even if it has no merit and the fact this the news is probably in bed or sucks up to O'Neil, this is yet another head smacking moment that makes go what in the absolute f#ck.

    Even then as my acting career is starting to take off and I'm having less and less time, it's probably a matter of time before I'm not even able to post anymore and follow it, but I say maybe that will be a good thing because it is almost as if Oklahoma City is cursed. I mean the city literally has bad luck on almost every single development.

    36th St. project was canceled due to NIMBYs. 18 on Fink Developer left Edmond. University North Park so far has been a huge let down in what was originally proposed. Tuscana Lifestyle Center was canceled. High-rise at 235/44 interchange canceled. Original Covell/I-35 development canceled. Lower Bricktown literally intentionally mislead and complete downgraded. Devon Tower scaled down from what could have been a supertall. OKC could have either had a super amazing urban stock or a really cool plan from IM Pei to have multiple new skyscrapers, a Galleria, citywide MonoRail, etc. and instead, we got neither of those things. We tore down the urban stock and lost out on the Pie Plan as that didn't happen. Like the plan or not, if downtown OKC was built as planned by IM Pei, it would have been a tourist attraction. It got the worse of 3 cards it was dealt. Belle Isle was downgraded. Those are only the things I can remember or even know about. I don't know what the deal is. Sure other cities lose out on things, Dallas lost out on Disney Mall that was proposed awhile back, but it happens in OKC so much.

    Sorry for the rant, but if this thing is canceled, I'm going to be furious. To O'Neil, you can go f yourself! This was already approved by the city council, recommended by the planning commission, I mean why does it need to go to a vote of the people? Oh, so 900 people can make some ridiculous law that only 690 signatures are needed to bring anything to a vote of the people so we can pretend that we live in a democracy which we don't, yet go on to voting for the better good of the city knowing damn well that Oklahoma has some of the lowest voter turn out rates in U.S. Well, whatever happens is what Edmond gets. If only 690 signatures are needed to potentially stop a project that would likely be approved if everyone in the city of 90k voted on, than so be it.

    http://www.news9.com/story/34229605/...y-go-to-a-vote

  4. #79

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Well here you go. another tactic which they used about the electronic sign ordinance to try and rely on low voter turnout. This country is not a democracy. We don't vote on everything. Why is it that Edmond will let all of these half ass developments go through sprawling the entire city as well as cheap, cookie cutter neighborhoods, and that is all fine and dandy.

    But then when you get quality developments that will truly bring in a really good amount of tax revenue for the space that is being occupied while making the area safer like 18 on Fink(mind you, this is where the developer basically said f this and walked out and took their development to another city that actually wanted quality development), they get voted down or the developer just gives up. Then the city clearly shows they are in the wrong denying developments like the Walmart(Coltrane and Covell). Oh, and then the city goes and builds a new Convention Hotel and Conference Center on I-35 and Covell with sh!tty fast food places surrounding it and a movie theatre, grocery store, gas station, and sports complex because it isn't like there is no room downtown to build it. No, lets go the cheap route and build out on the interstate where the road is currently two lanes, but since the proposal isn't as bold as it is, that's perfectly okay because the businesses will gradually pop up so traffic won't get bad. Wait...

    I mean seriously, are people that stupid? I just don't get why all of these developments around the city continue to pop up on the fringes and though they're smaller developments, no one complains about traffic. As soon as you get a quality development in an area that already has the infrastructure, BAM, well as the Joker says, everyone loses their minds!

    Also, I shared this on Facebook awhile back and it got hundreds of likes and almost one hundred shares. No one commented anything negative. When I was in Oklahoma over the holidays, I spoke with several people in the city and they didn't say anything negative. Not saying who, but I know and talked to several prominent developers in Edmond and OKC, and they didn't say nor did they hear anything negative about this project. So where the f@ck are 900 people coming from? I realize that isn't that much in a city of 90k, but I haven't even seen anything negative commented on the internet and now this former mayor has 900 people against a project that would bring quality retail and a development other cities would kill for. I'm beginning to think this guy just has a following of a certain group of people that would like for Edmond to just stop growing. I would be very interested in seeing the neighborhoods of where these signatures came from.

    My guess is that a good majority will come from the surrounding area as the selfish people don't want "their pretty little world" changed and then rest being some weird following this guy probably has scattered around Edmond. I'm furious to even read this even if it has no merit and the fact this the news is probably in bed or sucks up to O'Neil, this is yet another head smacking moment that makes go what in the absolute f#ck.

    Even then as my acting career is starting to take off and I'm having less and less time, it's probably a matter of time before I'm not even able to post anymore and follow it, but I say maybe that will be a good thing because it is almost as if Oklahoma City is cursed. I mean the city literally has bad luck on almost every single development.

    36th St. project was canceled due to NIMBYs. 18 on Fink Developer left Edmond. University North Park so far has been a huge let down in what was originally proposed. Tuscana Lifestyle Center was canceled. High-rise at 235/44 interchange canceled. Original Covell/I-35 development canceled. Lower Bricktown literally intentionally mislead and complete downgraded. Devon Tower scaled down from what could have been a supertall. OKC could have either had a super amazing urban stock or a really cool plan from IM Pei to have multiple new skyscrapers, a Galleria, citywide MonoRail, etc. and instead, we got neither of those things. We tore down the urban stock and lost out on the Pie Plan as that didn't happen. Like the plan or not, if downtown OKC was built as planned by IM Pei, it would have been a tourist attraction. It got the worse of 3 cards it was dealt. Belle Isle was downgraded. Those are only the things I can remember or even know about. I don't know what the deal is. Sure other cities lose out on things, Dallas lost out on Disney Mall that was proposed awhile back, but it happens in OKC so much.

    Sorry for the rant, but if this thing is canceled, I'm going to be furious. To O'Neil, you can go f yourself! This was already approved by the city council, recommended by the planning commission, I mean why does it need to go to a vote of the people? Oh, so 900 people can make some ridiculous law that only 690 signatures are needed to bring anything to a vote of the people so we can pretend that we live in a democracy which we don't, yet go on to voting for the better good of the city knowing damn well that Oklahoma has some of the lowest voter turn out rates in U.S. Well, whatever happens is what Edmond gets. If only 690 signatures are needed to potentially stop a project that would likely be approved if everyone in the city of 90k voted on, than so be it.

    http://www.news9.com/story/34229605/...y-go-to-a-vote
    That is beyond stupid. A vote for a project that works in countless cities across the country? That former mayor sounds like an idiot.

  5. #80

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    That is beyond stupid. A vote for a project that works in countless cities across the country? That former mayor sounds like an idiot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    That is beyond stupid. A vote for a project that works in countless cities across the country? That former mayor sounds like an idiot.
    I'm beyond upset. I'm not going to comment much more until I can cool down as to not say anything I don't mean. I will say this, I do love OKC and Edmond and want to them prosper. I just don't see how that can happen with sh!tty sprawl and they keep turning down quality developments. Especially Edmond. This project will benefit the entire Oklahoma City metro. There are potentially stores that might come to this development that won't go to Tulsa for sometime. If memory serves right, I even read where this single development might pull in almost half of the amount of sales tax that the entire city of Edmond currently generates. This is a great development. Of course there will be increased traffic.

    Traffic is going to get bad in OKC. When it will reach level such as Dallas or Austin is the question, not if. The only if you need to ask yourself is if you want the city to grow. Just saying something about smartgrowth isn't the answer because you just simply can't move that many people without having traffic and the city isn't set-up to have adequate mass transit nor will it ever be so there are going be cars and a lot of them. You can limit sprawl, but this isn't sprawl. This is already clearly in an area that has all utility lines, roads are four lanes. You could six lane it, but four lanes aren't bad. The developer is already going to add turn lanes and new signals. I mean it's either you just don't want the city to grow or you do.

    What else do people want in this area? More housing? Okay, let's see the alternative to that. It could be something with nice houses that are built to last, but let's be realistic here, it will likely be more cookie cutter, McCaleb type homes. There are very few good quality housing developments currently underway in Edmond compared to how many sprawling tract homes are being built.

    It's perfectly fine to sit and watch East Edmond blow up and surely enough, you'll start to see little strip malls and gas stations sprout up like weeds. I'm not entirely against that, I just don't understand where the people complaining about the traffic from this development will be when those things go before the planning commission and get a pass with flying colors.

    O'Neil specifically says "“We don't think Edmond is the right place to try his experiment,” O’Neil said." I mean, what!? First off, he's calling a development that works in every other city in the world an experiment? Okay, fine. Call it that. But why exactly won't it work? Are the people who plan on investing the millions and millions of dollars to give the people of Oklahoma a quality shopping destination, wrong after researching into the demographics and all of the other research they likely did?

  6. #81

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick View Post
    That is beyond stupid. A vote for a project that works in countless cities across the country? That former mayor sounds like an idiot.
    I'm torn. I really want this, and was even looking forward to this as a potential residence. But I don't want it done badly. Evidently this developer has zero experience in this type of mixed use development. Which is worse for long term progress? Not doing this at all, or doing it and it failing spectacularly which would make it that much harder for any more mixed used developments. Chisholm Creek is being doing very well, and I wonder if those developers would have the same opposition here...

  7. #82

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    I'm torn. I really want this, and was even looking forward to this as a potential residence. But I don't want it done badly. Evidently this developer has zero experience in this type of mixed use development. Which is worse for long term progress? Not doing this at all, or doing it and it failing spectacularly which would make it that much harder for any more mixed used developments. Chisholm Creek is being doing very well, and I wonder if those developers would have the same opposition here...
    That's an interesting point you bring up. I'd like to see it attempted I guess because it seems like it would be difficult to screw up with the standards in place. But famous last words and all...

  8. #83

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    O’Neil thinks the three stories of apartments over the retail space will overwhelm the shopping district.
    Ha, thats funny because im pretty sure retailers actually want to be overwhelmed with shoppers. Having the apartments are key to the retail success. And it doesnt matter if the developer hasnt built apartments above their shopping centers before, its not like its rocket science. And to traffic concerns, I believe the traffic at the intersection will be much better with shopping center entrances along 15th and bryant that are further away from the actual intersection.

    This would be a game changer for Edmond. The amount of sales and ad valorem taxes would be huge. Such foolishness that people dont want this. They can hope and try to pretend Edmond is still a bedroom community while other cities pass them by and continue to suck Edmond dollars away from Edmond.

  9. #84

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    This would be a game changer for Edmond. The amount of sales and ad valorem taxes would be huge. Such foolishness that people dont want this. They can hope and try to pretend Edmond is still a bedroom community while other cities pass them by and continue to suck Edmond dollars away from Edmond.
    What cities are passing Edmond by? I really don't see Edmond being hurt for lack of business development lately. There's lot of stuff going in, and plenty that's unique or rare in Oklahoma.

  10. #85

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    What cities are passing Edmond by? I really don't see Edmond being hurt for lack of business development lately. There's lot of stuff going in, and plenty that's unique or rare in Oklahoma.
    Edmond has less retail compared to similar cities. City officials have stated this themselves. And seeing how sales taxes makes up almost all of a cities revenue, they need more retail to continue being a good city. Maybe this developer decides to go south of memorial into OKC, maybe they do nothing and Chisolm Creek building a comparable lifestyle center. Both of which will continue the fact that Edmond dwellers do a lot of shopping outside of Edmond.

    Essentially Edmond should be happy that the developer is choosing their town to build this. If Edmond doesn't allow it, they lose out on huge tax dollars and a feather in their quality of life cap.

  11. #86

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Edmond has less retail compared to similar cities. City officials have stated this themselves. And seeing how sales taxes makes up almost all of a cities revenue, they need more retail to continue being a good city. Maybe this developer decides to go south of memorial into OKC, maybe they do nothing and Chisolm Creek building a comparable lifestyle center. Both of which will continue the fact that Edmond dwellers do a lot of shopping outside of Edmond.

    Essentially Edmond should be happy that the developer is choosing their town to build this. If Edmond doesn't allow it, they lose out on huge tax dollars and a feather in their quality of life cap.
    Edmond sales tax revenue was higher in 2016 than it's ever been. There are major reinvigorations/reinvestments in core areas such as Bryant Square, and there's plenty of new retail construction in progress. And that's ignoring developments at Covell and I-35 which will continue to take off.

    Heck, I'm a fan of this project, but I can see the logic of both sides. Hafer park is an amazing park, and construction this close will generate noise and other types of pollution. I imagine going for a nice walk in the park, and looking up to see apartments. Being skeptical of a developer to deliver a quality center is EXACTLY what we have a planning commission and a city council for. Or I guess we could let Edmond look like Del City.

    There was a time when they pretty much said yes to everything, and we got the stretch of Broadway between 2nd and 15th. That turned out well. We're finally getting quality development on Broadway and lots of those eyesores (such as that ugly car lot on 5th) are going away, to be replaced with nice architecture and quality development. I think it's fine for them to put on the breaks every once in a while. They say "yes" much more often than they say "no". It's a lot of what my father tried to do when he was a councilman, and it's what I, as a life long resident of Edmond, and a voter, want.

  12. #87

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    Edmond sales tax revenue was higher in 2016 than it's ever been. There are major reinvigorations/reinvestments in core areas such as Bryant Square, and there's plenty of new retail construction in progress. And that's ignoring developments at Covell and I-35 which will continue to take off.

    Heck, I'm a fan of this project, but I can see the logic of both sides. Hafer park is an amazing park, and construction this close will generate noise and other types of pollution. I imagine going for a nice walk in the park, and looking up to see apartments. Being skeptical of a developer to deliver a quality center is EXACTLY what we have a planning commission and a city council for. Or I guess we could let Edmond look like Del City.

    There was a time when they pretty much said yes to everything, and we got the stretch of Broadway between 2nd and 15th. That turned out well. We're finally getting quality development on Broadway and lots of those eyesores (such as that ugly car lot on 5th) are going away, to be replaced with nice architecture and quality development. I think it's fine for them to put on the breaks every once in a while. They say "yes" much more often than they say "no". It's a lot of what my father tried to do when he was a councilman, and it's what I, as a life long resident of Edmond, and a voter, want.
    Construction always causes a temporary disruption. There no way around that unless you dont want new things. And Im not sure apartments being in view is going to harm the park. Doesnt seem to effect Central Park. Speaking of the park, I think this will be great for it and kind of re-activate the park. People could park at the ball fields or park, spend some time there and be able to walk to the new center to see a movie or eat something. Or I suppose park at the center, shop and eat and then stroll to the park or to their kids baseball game.
    And of course the city will hold the developer to design and construction requirements so I dont think theres any risk to them building a crappy product. These will be high end apts.

    This will be the first true lifestyle center in the entire state of Oklahoma, I simply dont understand why some wouldnt want it in their town. But I suspect the majority of Edmond wants it and would vote for it.

  13. #88

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Wants it, yes. Would vote for it? I wouldn't be too sure.

  14. #89

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Don't see this being anything but Oklahomans doing what they do best... reacting as opposed to leading. There's plenty of examples out there for this group to follow. Doubt they screw it up. They'll probably never get the chance and oklahoma will continue to lag behind...like we do in so many areas.

  15. #90

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Saying just because they don't have any experience is not a good reason to deny them or even be skeptical that they could pull this off. They are working with other people who have experience and are being guided. This isn't an experiment in the sense O'Niel was referring to it as.

    This is a big project and will benefit the entire city.

    I was speaking with JTF today and he said something that is really true. You know the difference between urban and suburban based on how people react to more people living next to them. Most people around the core of LA love it when new high rise residential is being announced. Already this year there's been two announcements. I don't post about development in LA simply because something is announced everyday. But the difference is net where in Beverly Hills and Hollywood you have as worse if not worse nimbys than Edmond. But they live in suburbia so close to an urban utopia OKC can only dream about for the time being.

    In Korea Town where in at right now, they just announced a 30 something story high rise. It was met with praise and is right above a subway line.

    More people equals more retail and density. I have still not encountered a city that is as sprawled out as OKC for its metro population. It's so scareslt developed overall, I think that's why there is such bad food deserts and other cities similarly sized have retail OKC does not or just got recently.

    This project, is great because not only will it bring New to state retailers, but it will bring the density to the area that has the right demographics spread out. It's a great medium and will also improve safety of the area.

    Just like the18 on Park development where the developer walked away because of the city, this will bring people living right next to the park. These are luxury apartments, it is a good demographic. These aren't section 8 apartments that will bring crime. These are people who's backyard will be a city park. That's what most parks are supposed to be anyways. Not just somewhere that you drive to or hidden in the middle of a super block subdivision.

    This will also bring new taxes to the city and create a 24/hr urban zone that arguably doesn't exist in Oklahoma outside of Norman and now what appears to be midtown. This could be even better than those for the time being until those districts greatly improve.

    This will create the largest shopping district in Edmond and one of the largest and best in the entire state easily leavings Tulsa's Utica Sqaure area in the dust. This won't be a huge shopping area in terms of landmass, but the right size.

    After this there will be about two more parcels of land to develop and this area will be complete. I'd be in favor of upgrading Bryant to six lanes in the future, but for now the roads are fine and they'll be fine. All road expansions needed for this project are being covered by the developer.

    My honest opinion of what the people are really scared of is the change. This will truly make this part of Edmond a shopping district like what people on this site have been wanting for years.

    This is the only lifestyle center I know of in Oklahoma with solid plans. They plan to start in the fall and have the entire thing completed in two years. That's everything, apartments and retail. Chisholm Creek isn't like that. Yes, it is branded a lifestyle center, but so far all we have is a strip mall and some cool entertainment complexes and a stand alone apartment complex going up. Nothing new is being built there that wasn't in OKC before. I'm not talking about Top Golf or iFly, I'm talking about the way the development is.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking down Chisholm creek. I support it and thinks it will be a great development, but there is nothing solid on the lifestyle center aspect of the project yet. However that being said, with the success it's had, I suspect it won't be long before we hear about it.

    The only others I know of are UNP in Norman and Glimcher. UNP doesn't have a single shred of anything that remotely looks like a lifestyle center and doesn't even have fantasy renderings for that and Glimcher is help up in lawsuits(or possibly even Dead) and doesn't even have a real name.

    Not sure if anything has been announced in Tulsa, but Tulsa doesn't have anything close to the caliber of retail that currently proposed in OKC the last time I was there. Utica Square is what is known as a standard retail development in Dallas and in Los Angeles would be on the low end of the scale.

    So I am confident when saying this is the only retail area of Oklahoma currently proposed, ready to proceed, and with a timeline that actually makes it believable.

    Again, this area is already located near the center of the city. All roads in each direction are four lanes for miles and miles with the only exception of 15th St. Eastbound. Water, sewer, and electric already exists. Nothing more to do other than what the developer will pay for.

    People know the traffic will increase, it's inevitable. If you think it's bad now, wait until the next wave of sprawl hits Logan county and Piedmont. It's already happening in East Edmond. Edmond is about to find itself in a predicament that northwest OKC was in for years and still is even extreme north west with the small two lane roads and endless subdivisions.

    Thing I don't get, that's completely fine with people. New senior housing being built. New strip malls. Banks. Schools. Gas stations. Fast food joints. Hotels. Home style office buildings. Etc. those are small developments right? Put them all together multiply it by ten with thousands of new tract homes, that's Edmond has bee approving on the fringes and outside of the developed core for the last decade.

    One development like this comes up and it's chaos and can't work due to too much traffic and noise. Yet we still want to live within 30 miles of a major urban center(OKC).

    So yeah my only conclusion I can think of is people just don't want the city to be propelled into the next league because Edmond doesn't have anywhere else to go. They want Edmond to stay the same. Where else in the city could this have been built? Covell and I-35? Oh that's convenient. Best part is, the developer wouldn't have to widen any roads because the city is already having to do that for locating a new retail district on the fringes anchored by a hotel and movie theater. Roads are two lanes, and the added benefit of the freeway.

    There Covell and Kelly, but then you'd probably have O'Neil filing a lawsuit with 1000 other people in this area bitching about it.

    Well, Edmond can either choose to propel its self into becoming part of what a true cosmopolitan metro city is having amazing retail not just in its core but in its suburbs as well or can go and prevent that to delay the inevitable traffic that will come with the growth. Question is, what kind of growth do you want? You'll get bad traffic with any kind of growth, but preventing these kinds of developments and then approving all of this sprawl will make it worse.

  16. #91

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Something I just thought of, Edmond always said we need to conference center hotel to attach new retail in the area because Edmond needs retail taxes to grow. Yet they get this proposal and still build the Covell deal. Fine. I understand that because they already started it, but this would double what they want.

  17. #92

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    A concern I have about this proposed development is the awareness that keeping long term retail tenants is nearly impossible. In fact Spring Creek (west) shopping is half empty half the time. I've talked to a few retailers who end up leaving because the lease rate is ridiculously high. I don't think Spring Creek as ever been 100% leased for an extended time. So if another Spring Creek is developed it could create a worse case scenario with a lot of new but empty buildings. For some reason I worry this proposed development would feel like Branson shopping feels (near the waterway) during the off season. Feels very strange.

  18. #93

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bucktalk View Post
    A concern I have about this proposed development is the awareness that keeping long term retail tenants is nearly impossible. In fact Spring Creek (west) shopping is half empty half the time. I've talked to a few retailers who end up leaving because the lease rate is ridiculously high. I don't think Spring Creek as ever been 100% leased for an extended time. So if another Spring Creek is developed it could create a worse case scenario with a lot of new but empty buildings. For some reason I worry this proposed development would feel like Branson shopping feels (near the waterway) during the off season. Feels very strange.
    no no no.... if you even question anything about this development, you're just a closed minded NIMBY and you're actively destroying Edmond's economic future. Dontcha know?

  19. #94

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Opps. I regret any attempt to be reasonable and using logic. My 'duh' side was showing.....

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    no no no.... if you even question anything about this development, you're just a closed minded NIMBY and you're actively destroying Edmond's economic future. Dontcha know?

  20. #95

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bucktalk View Post
    A concern I have about this proposed development is the awareness that keeping long term retail tenants is nearly impossible. In fact Spring Creek (west) shopping is half empty half the time. I've talked to a few retailers who end up leaving because the lease rate is ridiculously high. I don't think Spring Creek as ever been 100% leased for an extended time. So if another Spring Creek is developed it could create a worse case scenario with a lot of new but empty buildings. For some reason I worry this proposed development would feel like Branson shopping feels (near the waterway) during the off season. Feels very strange.
    Its not that you cant question it. Traffic concerns, noise, those are legitimate concerns. But to say you have concerns because it could have mass vacancy is not legitimate. The developers trying to do this own and operate lifestyle centers across the US, whereas Spring Creek Village (West) is owned locally by someone who has little retail experience. Comparing the two really is apples to oranges. Its not as if Spring Creek Plaza (East) has suffered from large vacancies. But to help the concerns you have, they want apartments added to the development, to help solidify long term success. Big time developers dont build these things if they think they will be busts and they cant keep tenants. With the way you talk, you act as if the nicest suburb in the state isnt worthy of something like this.

    If it does go to the polls, I think when names get floated around like whole foods, lululemon, restoration hardware, urban outfitters, sephora, a new movie theater, I think most residents will get on board.

  21. #96

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    I wish we had details on the movie theater.

  22. #97

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by bucktalk View Post
    A concern I have about this proposed development is the awareness that keeping long term retail tenants is nearly impossible. In fact Spring Creek (west) shopping is half empty half the time. I've talked to a few retailers who end up leaving because the lease rate is ridiculously high. I don't think Spring Creek as ever been 100% leased for an extended time. So if another Spring Creek is developed it could create a worse case scenario with a lot of new but empty buildings. For some reason I worry this proposed development would feel like Branson shopping feels (near the waterway) during the off season. Feels very strange.
    This development is by a different developer then the existing developer that built spring creek and I believe has nothing to do with the existing Spring Creek plaza.

  23. #98

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    no no no.... if you even question anything about this development, you're just a closed minded NIMBY and you're actively destroying Edmond's economic future. Dontcha know?
    Point out things my post you don't agree and let's debate it. I didn't post it as in I'm the all knowing master of things and everyone else is wrong. I gave my 2 cents and typed exactly how I felt an what I thought. If you're too intimated to respond to me than that is on you. Otherwise, go ahead, quote my post, and I'll be happy to debate with you. If you want make excuses about how you can't debate with me or whatever, than don't bother.

  24. #99

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by jerrywall View Post
    I wish we had details on the movie theater.
    Single screen boutique theatre I believe. Have been rumors pointing to an iPic.

  25. #100

    Default Re: Spring Creek Plaza

    Quote Originally Posted by Plutonic Panda View Post
    Point out things my post you don't agree and let's debate it. I didn't post it as in I'm the all knowing master of things and everyone else is wrong. I gave my 2 cents and typed exactly how I felt an what I thought. If you're too intimated to respond to me than that is on you. Otherwise, go ahead, quote my post, and I'll be happy to debate with you. If you want make excuses about how you can't debate with me or whatever, than don't bother.
    My post wasn't directed at you, but since you ask, your comment that there's no reason to even be skeptical? That's naive and absurd. I guess we could just automatically approve everything with no review, based on your statements.

    Edmond overwhelmingly approves new developments. Look at stuff downtown. Or on 5th and broadway. Or at I-35 and Covell. Or at Kelly and Covell, or along I-35 near 15th. Or at 100s of other spots around town. Denials are the exception, not the rule, and they're usually for a good reason. So just taking the time, being skeptical, and reviewing the process IS smart. It's amazing. The same posters I see posting in other OKC threads about bad developments, or buildings not high enough, or ugly designs, or poor use, or whatever, will come in here and complain that Edmond doesn't just rubber stamp every development. Well, I say "good". Of course, I live here and I am personally invested in Edmond remaining it's status as one of, if not the best, suburb in Oklahoma. We have standards.

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