Gallop Poll - Estimates how many people want to leave the state they are in

[Urbanized]

You'll have to explain the other side of the veneer because I prefer to be honest and open about things rather than coy. What in the world are you talking about?

I was talking about the veneer of politeness that southern culture hides behind. The post was hardly coy, nor was it especially difficult to interpret. Or so I thought...

[PennyQuilts]

I was talking about the veneer of politeness that southern culture hides behind. The post was hardly coy, nor was it especially difficult to interpret. Or so I thought...

I wouldn't confuse being polite or hospitable with anything other than what it is. They ARE polite and hospitable. That doesn't mean they like you - it just means they have good manners.

[Dubya61]

Something to consider: File:Most common ancestries in the United States.svg - Wikimedia Commons

I noticed that there were very few states that were considered "American" ancestry -- and that was befuddled by British, French and Irish settling. I wonder if the source even considered Native Americans.

[Urbanized]

I wouldn't confuse being polite or hospitable with anything other than what it is. They ARE polite and hospitable. That doesn't mean they like you - it just means they have good manners.

There is a difference between being polite and being NICE. People in this part of the U.S. tend to be nice. And the politeness and hospitality of the South is debatable too. Maybe at the country club or the Kentucky Derby, but at the convenience store or the fast food restaurant, not so much. As I said, it is a well-crafted veneer.

[Studying Okie]

I noticed that there were very few states that were considered "American" ancestry -- and that was befuddled by British, French and Irish settling. I wonder if the source even considered Native Americans.

Here is the Census map of which ancestries form pluralities by county. The counties in Eastern Oklahoma have Native American pluralities.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...-by-County.svg

Edit: Compare Oklahoma in that map to the map of land that was opened for settlement after 1889.

[PennyQuilts]

Oklahoma has a complicated history when it comes to Native Americans. As I understand it, and I am no expert, nor am I Native American (so I write this with some trepidation), the Native Americans indigenous to this area were the Caddo speaking, Wichita, Kiowa with some nomadic plains Indians who periodically came through because this was included in their hunting range. The Apache got a good toe hold at some point relatively recently. Long before the horrible Trail of Tears, the United States was removing eastern and north central tribes to the area to make room for european expansion. Most of these Native Americans weren't indigenous to the area.

The Five Civilized tribes were from the SE and were fairly advanced in terms of agriculture, property holding, etc., Unlike the warlike forest tribes, they got along relatively well with their European neighbors (at least in comparison) and adopted much of the culture. For those tribes, it was not that big a stretch because they were already on a similar cultural trajectory. Many of them, including the Cherokee, went to the Oklahoma territory, voluntarily, making the effort to swing decent deals with the government. Most of them, however, didn't want to go and held onto their native lands in the south as long as possible. Again, as I understand it, some unscrupulous and sketchy "representatives" of the tribes struck a deal with the United States (and I suspect the US was complicit) agreeing to migrate to this area. Using that justification, the United States "removed them" causing horrible loss of life and misery for them.

Again, as I understand it, in 1861, when the civil war was getting underway, the US passed laws that allowed them to renegotiate the treaties of Indian tribes that sided with the south. The Five Civilized tribes did so and the United States used this as the legal reason to be able to open up the territories in the land runs.

That's the way I understood the gist of it but I am sure it is filled with errors and such so take it with a grain of salt.

[PennyQuilts]

There is a difference between being polite and being NICE. People in this part of the U.S. tend to be nice. And the politeness and hospitality of the South is debatable too. Maybe at the country club or the Kentucky Derby, but at the convenience store or the fast food restaurant, not so much. As I said, it is a well-crafted veneer.

People ARE nice here. I suppose it comes down to the definition of nice. I think a lot of us, myself included, equate it with being kind, sweet people. And I think Oklahoma definitely fits that bill. But there is also the use of nice that refers to just decent manners. "Did the clerk threaten you in any way?" "Oh no, he was nice enough..." That sort of thing.

Anyhoo, you and I have different experiences. I find that I try to keep a poker face on when I am in Louisiana and the Carolinas (haven't been to Mississippi, Alabama or Georgia, recently so can't compare) because if I look lost, I get mobbed with people offering directions or asking if I need some help.

[Bellaboo]

I was brought up in San Francisco and San Diego; liked Arizona (4 years); looooooooved South Carolina (18 years); I like Oklahoma (not just because I have to be here) because I have had and do have the absolute best neighbors, and the cost of living is fantastic (1999 to present); and I hope to live the last chapter of my life along the coast of Oregon (Coos Bay or Astoria).

I went salmon and sturgeon fishing in August of 1987 at Astoria. It was 38 degrees when we got up and the high that day was 44. Bummer for summer weather.