Texas Problems

[traxx]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/boom-t...143250407.html

tl;dr version - Texas is experiencing too much growth and business is too good for the infrastructure to keep up with it.

[ou48A]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/boom-t...143250407.html

tl;dr version - Texas is experiencing too much growth and business is too good for the infrastructure to keep up with it.

Good article.
But because of the great boom in the big city’s of Texas the mid size to smaller size city’s in the eastern half of Texas should see good growth rates too. They don't have nearly as much congestion. They often come with a preety good quality of life. Water is not nearly the problem as it is in the west. The property taxes are usually much lower. +They still have a great state business environment.

[Rover]

And, is good for OKC, much like Southern Cal problems were good for Phoenix. OKC and Austin are the next closest attractive cities and Austin is having its share of infrastructure issues.

[bchris02]

And, is good for OKC, much like Southern Cal problems were good for Phoenix. OKC and Austin are the next closest attractive cities and Austin is having its share of infrastructure issues.

If DFW can do for OKC what SoCal did for Phoenix, then you guys will be in good shape.

[gopokes88]

Might be part of the reason GE came here and not Houston.

[Mel]

and it's full of Texans.

[Plutonic Panda]

Might be part of the reason GE came here and not Houston.

I thought GE was considering Austin? Anyhow, Texas is experiencing insane growth, and if Oklahoma gets it sh*t together and allows ODOT to take out loans for huge highway projects, kick these morons out of office that are prohibiting smart growth, and design our infrastructure to handle future growth, we will experience the same growth.

[Of Sound Mind]

WWCD (What Would Charlotte Do)

[adaniel]

I've now been in DFW for a month after spending my teens down here and living in OK the next 9 years thereafter. I actually am really liking DFW, but not because of its glistening infrastructure. Here are my observations:

I knew the traffic would be worse since last living here, but after experiencing it for myself, I just couldn't believe the increase. Around 50 minutes-1 hour to go 18 miles my first week here. I have thankfully moved closer to work. Another observation: the toll roads here are in great shape but a lot of the TxDOT maintained roads are starting to get a bit rough. Some of that can be attributed to the bad winter, but I've read some articles about how backlogged and in debt TxDOT is. Plus, tolls are not cheap. Some of my coworkers that live way up north in new suburbs like Little Elm or Frisco have little choice but to take them. I work across from one guy who has an annual toll bill of over $2K/yr and that is allegedly pretty common. The NTTA (N Texas Tollway Authority) is a ruthless Gestapo like organization and they WILL get their money. Even with that, they are delaying some of their projects because like TxDOT they are now deep in debt.

I live and work pretty close to the LBJ Freeway express project. It looks pretty impressive up front, but I kept thinking to myself that once this is at capacity, then what? It was my understanding the George Bush Turnpike 5 miles to the north was suppose to absorb traffic from LBJ until it reached capacity in 30 years. It reached that in 10. That's kinda this area's issue in a nutshell.

At the end of the day the traffic thing is at worst a huge pain. The water thing is far more critical IMO. I really don't know all the details of this and probably not as bad here in DFW or Houston as it is in Austin, SA, or points out west. Central/South Texas is in really bad shape with their water supplies. At one point Lake Travis was predicted to be a "dead pool" as early as 2016 and rice farmers downriver have lost all of their water allotments. Lake Meredith out by Amarillo is something like 5% capacity. I can see a future where Austin or Amarillo starts requiring xeriscaping or significantly curtailing development overall.

Is all of this enough to derail the current growth down here? No, not yet. If there are jobs to be had people will still continue to move here. The issues are all solvable at this point but its going to take some political will and a backing down from the small-government philosphy; that stuff works fine when you are the size of Wyoming or Montana, not Texas with 26 million people. There are a lot of moderate Republicans down here who realize this but can't say because they will get primaried by the tea party zealots.

I do think if OKC was smart it would start positioning itself as a nice alternative to TX, much like Rover suggested that was done with Phoenix to SoCal.

[traxx]

kick these morons out of office that are prohibiting smart growth

You do realize that Texas and Oklahoma are pretty similar politically, right? If Texas' politicians are experiencing so much growth that they can't keep up with it, then it doesn't make sense for Oklahoma to go in a different direction.

[HangryHippo]

I live and work pretty close to the LBJ Freeway express project. It looks pretty impressive up front, but I kept thinking to myself that once this is at capacity, then what? It was my understanding the George Bush Turnpike 5 miles to the north was suppose to absorb traffic from LBJ until it reached capacity in 30 years. It reached that in 10. That's kinda this area's issue in a nutshell.

I thought about this when I read something in the Dallas paper. They're building that monstrosity, but what the hell will they do when that becomes crowded? Just unreal. They're going to have to change how expansively they develop. I don't think you can keep up with that.

[GaryOKC6]

Toyota moving U.S. base from California to Texas

By: Associated Press April 29, 2014 0
A Prius enters Toyota’s U.S. headquarters in Torrance, Calif. (AP file photo)

A Prius enters Toyota’s U.S. headquarters in Torrance, Calif. (AP file photo)
TORRANCE, Calif. – Toyota delivered a surprise pink slip to California on Monday, announcing the company would move its U.S. headquarters and about 3,000 jobs from the Los Angeles suburbs to the outskirts of Dallas.

The world’s largest automaker will keep a foothold in the Golden State – about 2,300 jobs will remain in California after the company settles into its new corporate campus in Plano, Texas. But the announcement is an economic and symbolic slap for California, a historic center of American car culture that has been trying to shake its reputation as a frustrating place to run a business, whether that involves shooting a film or selling a Prius.

“When you look at the whole package, it’s difficult to be a business here,” lamented Torrance Mayor Frank Scotto, whose community on the edge of the Pacific will suffer as the jobs migrate to Texas.

“If all these great, high-end jobs are leaving California, then we are going to turn into a place that’s a retirement community” with low-paying service-sector jobs, Scotto said. “We can’t have that,” he added, warning that unless the state has a change of attitude, “it’s going to be way too late.”

Toyota’s announcement comes about two months after Occidental Petroleum Corp. disclosed it was moving its headquarters to Houston from Los Angeles. Texas Gov. Rick Perry has been on a publicity campaign to promote his state as a haven for businesses seeking lower taxes and eased government regulation, but Toyota didn’t mention what, if any, role Perry played in the company’s decision.

Perry, who made two visits to California to lure employers to his state, said Texas offered Toyota $40 million in incentives from the taxpayer-funded Texas Enterprise Fund. The Republican governor said Toyota is expected to invest $300 million in the new headquarters.

Republicans in California quickly blamed Sacramento for the loss, where Democrats control both chambers of the Legislature and every statewide office. A statement issued by Gov. Jerry Brown’s Office of Business and Economic Development did not mention Toyota but stressed the state’s steadied balance sheet and jobs recovered after the devastating recession.

“Ford, Volkswagen and Nissan continue to invest in California, and the Golden State remains the center of new electric, zero-emission and self-driving vehicle manufacturing and technology,” the statement said.

Toyota will break ground this year on its new environmentally friendly headquarters in Plano, about 25 miles north of Dallas. Small groups of employees will start moving to temporary office space there this year, but most won’t move until late 2016 or early 2017 when the new headquarters is completed.

The new campus will bring together about 4,000 employees from sales, marketing, engineering, manufacturing and finance.

Toyota also plans to expand its technical center near Ann Arbor, Mich., and move about 250 parts procurement positions there from Georgetown, Ky., where the Camry and Avalon sedans are made. That will free up space for approximately 300 production engineers to move from Erlanger, Ky., to Georgetown. Toyota will have 8,200 employees in Kentucky after the moves are complete.

Jim Lentz, Toyota’s CEO for North America, said the new headquarters will enable faster decision making. Lentz told The Associated Press that the move is one of the most significant changes in Toyota’s 57-year history in the U.S.

“We needed to be much more collaborative,” he said.

Lentz said any employee who wants to move will be given a relocation package and retention bonus. The company is also offering to send employees and their spouses or partners to the new locations to look for new homes.

“Everything we are doing is encouraging people to go,” he said.

Plano Mayor Harry LaRosilliere said Toyota’s announcement was the result of an intense, three-month courtship but the company’s decision was “years in the making.”

Plano economic development director Sally Bane said when Toyota decided to hone in on Texas, the city jump-started its own campaign, hiring a private consultant who worked with Toyota to help close the deal.

Toyota will join Cigna Corp., Hewlett-Packard Co. and Pepsico Inc.’s Frito Lay in a city with an unemployment rate lower than the state average. Plano’s 265,000 residents have a median income of $81,000, one of the highest in the country.

Toyota Motor Corp. has had a presence in California since 1957, when it opened its first U.S. headquarters in a former Rambler dealership in Hollywood. The following year – Toyota’s first in the U.S. market – it sold 287 Toyopet Crown sedans and one Land Cruiser.

By 1975, Toyota had become the top import brand in the U.S. It opened its current U.S. headquarters in Torrance in 1982. Toyota sold 2.2 million cars and trucks in the U.S. last year.

The company also maintains offices in New York and Washington. Plants in Mississippi, Texas and Indiana aren’t affected by the moves.

Lentz, who became Toyota’s first CEO for the North America region in 2013, said Toyota President Akio Toyoda encouraged him to think of ways to make North America more self-reliant. Lentz said he began working on the idea of a combined headquarters last April or May.

The company decided not to locate in California because it was too far from its plants in the Midwest. Kentucky was rejected because Erlanger wasn’t big enough, and Ann Arbor was rejected because it was too close to Detroit rivals like General Motors and Ford.

Lentz said the company ultimately came up with a list of 100 possibilities that it whittled down to four.

“As we visited those four primary locations, it became quite clear that the Dallas metro area was far and above the best choice,” Lentz said. He wouldn’t disclose the other three finalists

[Plutonic Panda]

I thought about this when I read something in the Dallas paper. They're building that monstrosity, but what the hell will they do when that becomes crowded? Just unreal. They're going to have to change how expansively they develop. I don't think you can keep up with that.

It's beautiful piece of infrastructure that will serve the area very nicely for awhile. When it reaches capacity, what do you do?, you add lanes to it. It is that simple. No city will ever need a 100 lane highway, so even try that argument. When a highway reaches its capacity, you widen it. You build for the future, but don't widen it too much to where it doesn't make sense. The LBJ expansion makes sense for the area. People really need to shut the hell up about Dallas highway widening and stop bitching, I only really see it on this website. They are great for the area and the 635 corridor is already seeing massive large-scale development beyond anything that this city is seeing and the highway isn't even done yet. Texas is doing great with their highways and DFW is spending big bucks on mass transit. Dallas is even considering a subway system, they connected their light-rail the airport to try and ensure you can travel Dallas car free, they are increasing their bus system funding and expanding the service. Stop bitching about expanding highways and making it easier for people who own cars to drive around.

PS, this comment came off as really rude re-reading it and wasn't meant that way nor was directed at any one person, it just gets annoying when people(namely urbanist and anti-highway crowd) complains about Dallas spending big bucks on massive, amazing highways when the city is also really tackling mass transit problem and has tons of new urban development going on.

[Plutonic Panda]

You do realize that Texas and Oklahoma are pretty similar politically, right? If Texas' politicians are experiencing so much growth that they can't keep up with it, then it doesn't make sense for Oklahoma to go in a different direction.

I know Texas and Oklahoma are probably more similar than they are different, but as far as liquor laws, road funding, being pro-development, etc.... Texas leads the way and is almost opposite of Oklahoma. TxDOT is actively trying to get HSR a reality and ODOT is shrugging it off. The roads and infrastructure here is a joke compared to Texas. Experiencing that much is great and hopefully Oklahoma takes off to another level. It'd be nice to see Oklahoma get a population of 10 million by 2050 or less. See some other towns like Enid, Ardmore, Lawton, Woodward, and other smaller towns grow and become stable. Have Stillwater become part of OKC's MSA and have solid growth of suburban development all the way to Stillwater boosting OKC's metro pop. to 4-5 million by then. Have a massive urban core with an expansive skyline rivaling Dallas and have an urban core packed with density with a huge downtown population. Watch OKC become a regional powerhouse below Dallas and have Tulsa gain strong growth as well. It is our time to rise, but the maniacs in behind the wheel of this state is what worries me the most.

This is a good long-term goal and I believe is doable by 2050, perhaps even sooner, just depending on how big of boom we see and where our politics go.

[Spartan]

I've now been in DFW for a month after spending my teens down here and living in OK the next 9 years thereafter. I actually am really liking DFW, but not because of its glistening infrastructure. Here are my observations:

I knew the traffic would be worse since last living here, but after experiencing it for myself, I just couldn't believe the increase. Around 50 minutes-1 hour to go 18 miles my first week here. I have thankfully moved closer to work. Another observation: the toll roads here are in great shape but a lot of the TxDOT maintained roads are starting to get a bit rough. Some of that can be attributed to the bad winter, but I've read some articles about how backlogged and in debt TxDOT is. Plus, tolls are not cheap. Some of my coworkers that live way up north in new suburbs like Little Elm or Frisco have little choice but to take them. I work across from one guy who has an annual toll bill of over $2K/yr and that is allegedly pretty common. The NTTA (N Texas Tollway Authority) is a ruthless Gestapo like organization and they WILL get their money. Even with that, they are delaying some of their projects because like TxDOT they are now deep in debt.

I live and work pretty close to the LBJ Freeway express project. It looks pretty impressive up front, but I kept thinking to myself that once this is at capacity, then what? It was my understanding the George Bush Turnpike 5 miles to the north was suppose to absorb traffic from LBJ until it reached capacity in 30 years. It reached that in 10. That's kinda this area's issue in a nutshell.

At the end of the day the traffic thing is at worst a huge pain. The water thing is far more critical IMO. I really don't know all the details of this and probably not as bad here in DFW or Houston as it is in Austin, SA, or points out west. Central/South Texas is in really bad shape with their water supplies. At one point Lake Travis was predicted to be a "dead pool" as early as 2016 and rice farmers downriver have lost all of their water allotments. Lake Meredith out by Amarillo is something like 5% capacity. I can see a future where Austin or Amarillo starts requiring xeriscaping or significantly curtailing development overall.

Is all of this enough to derail the current growth down here? No, not yet. If there are jobs to be had people will still continue to move here. The issues are all solvable at this point but its going to take some political will and a backing down from the small-government philosphy; that stuff works fine when you are the size of Wyoming or Montana, not Texas with 26 million people. There are a lot of moderate Republicans down here who realize this but can't say because they will get primaried by the tea party zealots.

I do think if OKC was smart it would start positioning itself as a nice alternative to TX, much like Rover suggested that was done with Phoenix to SoCal.

Santa Fe requires development to be water neutral. Developers pay into a fund to retrofit older structures w low flow toilets, for example, in exchange for a permit. I think they've run out of older folks to give new toilets.

[adaniel]

It's beautiful piece of infrastructure that will serve the area very nicely for awhile. When it reaches capacity, what do you do?, you add lanes to it. It is that simple. No city will ever need a 100 lane highway, so even try that argument. When a highway reaches its capacity, you widen it. You build for the future, but don't widen it too much to where it doesn't make sense. The LBJ expansion makes sense for the area. People really need to shut the hell up about Dallas highway widening and stop bitching, I only really see it on this website. They are great for the area and the 635 corridor is already seeing massive large-scale development beyond anything that this city is seeing and the highway isn't even done yet. Texas is doing great with their highways and DFW is spending big bucks on mass transit. Dallas is even considering a subway system, they connected their light-rail the airport to try and ensure you can travel Dallas car free, they are increasing their bus system funding and expanding the service. Stop bitching about expanding highways and making it easier for people who own cars to drive around.

PS, this comment came off as really rude re-reading it and wasn't meant that way nor was directed at any one person, it just gets annoying when people(namely urbanist and anti-highway crowd) complains about Dallas spending big bucks on massive, amazing highways when the city is also really tackling mass transit problem and has tons of new urban development going on.

I think you believe that everyone down here has unbridled enthusiasm for 10 lane+ freeways when it is fact quite the opposite. A resigned inevitability more than anything and I think if someone comes in with the right ideas about transit and infrastructure it can change. The financial realities alone are putting the brakes on a lot of this stuff. Dallas is really not that different from most other big cities.

I believe I should clarify. The reason I stated my reservations with the 635 project is it has gobbled up all available ROW. Should the new express lanes reach capacity thats it. 635 cannot be widened anymore after this. That's one reason why they turned the express lanes into managed toll lanes with congestion pricing. The hope is they never reach capacity, and should the highway start getting close I imagine the drive on 635 will get quite expensive. Its a bit of a gamble IMO.

Its funny this came up now as the most recent D Magazine covered this very issue about highways in Dallas. Its an AWESOME magazine btw, really wish OKC had something similar. Read it here. There is quite a bit of momentum to tear down I-345 in downtown to reconnect neighborhoods. You won't find this interstate on any maps as its just an unmarked spur that connects US 75 and I 45. Because the real estate community is now on board (lots of new land opened up for development) this is actually possible. The hope is it can free up some badly needed funds for other projects. Also the Trinity Parkway, the highway that was supposed to run parallel to 35 and lie literally within the Trinity River floodplain is dead. Nobody wants to say it but its as dead as dirt.

I would also add that I finally made it to Klyde Warren Park this weekend. It is a cap park over Woodall Rogers Freeway. Its really a lovely park and great example of what can be done to keep highways from being so disruptive to their surroundings. You completely forget you are near a 10 lane freeway.

I don't think anyone is "bitching" about anything....that's a pretty childish thing to say. I just see a lot of concerned citizens worried that congestion is ruining their quality of life and maybe continually building freeways isn't always the best thing both from a traffic-relieving and fiscal point of view. If Dallas plays its cards right it could be a leader in finding a balance, but its going to take some people breaking away from the status quo.

[Snowman]

Its funny this came up now as the most recent D Magazine covered this very issue about highways in Dallas. Its an AWESOME magazine btw, really wish OKC had something similar. Read it here. There is quite a bit of momentum to tear down I-345 in downtown to reconnect neighborhoods. You won't find this interstate on any maps as its just an unmarked spur that connects US 75 and I 45. Because the real estate community is now on board (lots of new land opened up for development) this is actually possible. The hope is it can free up some badly needed funds for other projects. Also the Trinity Parkway, the highway that was supposed to run parallel to 35 and lie literally within the Trinity River floodplain is dead. Nobody wants to say it but its as dead as dirt.

While I had heard about the plausibility of doing this, it was book-ended by TxDOT was putting out what it was considering for possible changes to it and removal was not even on the list considered

[mugofbeer]

Folks, we dont WANT the traffic problems they have in Dallas. I have to admit, they are fun to watch them build.

[Plutonic Panda]

I think you believe that everyone down here has unbridled enthusiasm for 10 lane+ freeways when it is fact quite the opposite.

No I don't and I'd like to know what exactly made you think that. A lot of people down here don't even like how big the new I-40 is and that is mainly because they liked OKC being small and easier to get around in. If you're referring to Dallas, the same applies. Everyone I've talked to doesn't mind them. Didn't you just move there? Also, weren't you big on urbanism? So if that is the case, I'd imagine you be in an a more urban environment with people who favor urbanism which in turn, aren't the biggest fan of highways.

The financial realities alone are putting the brakes on a lot of this stuff. Dallas is really not that different from most other big cities.

The financial realities are that 635 is already seeing huge investment as I have stated time and time again, the Dallas connector is getting increased funding and more massive highway projects are planned as well as the ones that are underway as posted in the Dallas thread(which I will be updating soon). Where did I say Dallas was different from big cities? Dallas wasn't all that big just 20-30 years ago. I'd Dallas is still a younger city maturing.

I believe I should clarify. The reason I stated my reservations with the 635 project is it has gobbled up all available ROW. Should the new express lanes reach capacity thats it. 635 cannot be widened anymore after this. That's one reason why they turned the express lanes into managed toll lanes with congestion pricing. The hope is they never reach capacity, and should the highway start getting close I imagine the drive on 635 will get quite expensive. Its a bit of a gamble IMO.

I understand that. It is a huge highway. What would you have them do? The 405 freeway in LA has used up all of it ROW as well as a bunch of other highways there. You can only widen a highway so much before you either have to decide if traffic gets to the point where you start going underground or if it gets that cost prohibitive, you just can't do anything. In this case, Dallas has ROW to expand 635 and they are doing that, so again, what the hell would you do? They know darn well the highway will reach capacity again and once it does, that is that. When Dallas reaches that point, the city will have likely matured and it will become like NYC or L.A. A city so large you'll have people leaving because of major traffic and other issues, but the city will still grow due to its massive size.

Its funny this came up now as the most recent D Magazine covered this very issue about highways in Dallas. Its an AWESOME magazine btw, really wish OKC had something similar. Read it here. There is quite a bit of momentum to tear down I-345 in downtown to reconnect neighborhoods. You won't find this interstate on any maps as its just an unmarked spur that connects US 75 and I 45. Because the real estate community is now on board (lots of new land opened up for development) this is actually possible. The hope is it can free up some badly needed funds for other projects. Also the Trinity Parkway, the highway that was supposed to run parallel to 35 and lie literally within the Trinity River floodplain is dead. Nobody wants to say it but its as dead as dirt.

I am very aware of the move to tear down the central expressway, and guess what, I SUPPORT IT! Also, the Trinity River Parkway is most certainly not dead and might be the only way the Central Expressway gets torn down, the are compromises trying to be made right now.

I would also add that I finally made it to Klyde Warren Park this weekend. It is a cap park over Woodall Rogers Freeway. Its really a lovely park and great example of what can be done to keep highways from being so disruptive to their surroundings. You completely forget you are near a 10 lane freeway.

I am familiar with it. For some highway such as 235 in OKC, that is great. Other corridors such as 635 or 240 in OKC, that gets a fat no from me seeing as the highway and near development rely on each other.

I don't think anyone is "bitching" about anything....that's a pretty childish thing to say. I just see a lot of concerned citizens worried that congestion is ruining their quality of life and maybe continually building freeways isn't always the best thing both from a traffic-relieving and fiscal point of view. If Dallas plays its cards right it could be a leader in finding a balance, but its going to take some people breaking away from the status quo.

People here do bitch about it and it is not childish to point that out. Not just on this thread, but I see it in other threads all the time. People have the right to their opinions, I also have a right to an opinion.

Adaniel, Dallas is going to become even more congested than it already is. OKC is going to start becoming very congested(I'm going to start a thread on it soon with pictures I've been taking). Ultimately when a city like Dallas starts reaching critical mass on a massive scale, you'll see this in Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, NYC, L.A., San Fransico, etc..... traffic gets to a point where it becomes a pain in the @ss. I'm sorry man, but there is not much you can do. You can't just leave the highways 6 lanes, and projects like the 635 project are needed, but it won't last forever and we know that.

Dallas is finding a balance man. I mean seriously, do you people not read my posts or just read what you want? I said; Dallas is spending billions on light-rail, actively working with TxDOT who is trying to work with ODOT(who is showing complete lack of interest) to create a HSR triangle going from Tulsa-OKC-Dallas-Austin-SA-Houston, Dallas is considering a subway or elevated rail in their downtown, they expanding their street-car system downtown, just finishing a new terminal station at the DFW Airport for light-rail, and they are also getting ready to put together a serious bike trail master plan according to one of the council members I spoke with. Dallas has tons of huge projects going on besides highway construction.

[Plutonic Panda]

While I had heard about the plausibility of doing this, it was book-ended by TxDOT was putting out what it was considering for possible changes to it and removal was not even on the list considered

Not what I heard recently. A high-speed, 4 lane, limited access tollway along with a new park along the trinity river was still a very active possibility. My last update was about a month or two ago on this, so maybe it died since then.

[Plutonic Panda]

Folks, we dont WANT the traffic problems they have in Dallas. I have to admit, they are fun to watch them build.

I don't think anyone wants the traffic problems Dallas has lol.... no one wants traffic problems, Dallas doesn't even want to traffic problems they have haha

The way I look at it is like parking issues, it is good and bad. At least the city is prospering and isn't dead. Growing traffic means a growing city.

[bchris02]

As conservative as Texas is, it seems like its downright liberal compared to Oklahoma. At least down there really is less government interference with the lives of individual citizens. Texas does also have liberal pockets in Austin and to a lesser extent Dallas and Houston. Oklahoma doesn't have any sizable liberal bastions in the entire state. Whatever your political alignment is, whenever one side has too much power that's never good. It's not just Republican states either. Look at where complete liberal control has taken California. I believe this far right wing, oppressive state government is the biggest obstacle to major growth in Oklahoma.

[traxx]

I know Texas and Oklahoma are probably more similar than they are different, but as far as liquor laws, road funding, being pro-development, etc.... Texas leads the way and is almost opposite of Oklahoma. TxDOT is actively trying to get HSR a reality and ODOT is shrugging it off. The roads and infrastructure here is a joke compared to Texas. Experiencing that much is great and hopefully Oklahoma takes off to another level. It'd be nice to see Oklahoma get a population of 10 million by 2050 or less. See some other towns like Enid, Ardmore, Lawton, Woodward, and other smaller towns grow and become stable. Have Stillwater become part of OKC's MSA and have solid growth of suburban development all the way to Stillwater boosting OKC's metro pop. to 4-5 million by then. Have a massive urban core with an expansive skyline rivaling Dallas and have an urban core packed with density with a huge downtown population. Watch OKC become a regional powerhouse below Dallas and have Tulsa gain strong growth as well. It is our time to rise, but the maniacs in behind the wheel of this state is what worries me the most.

This is a good long-term goal and I believe is doable by 2050, perhaps even sooner, just depending on how big of boom we see and where our politics go.

I guess you missed this part of the article then:

On the state level, Texas spends less per resident than all but three states: Florida, Georgia and Arizona, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of the most recent state-government finance data from the U.S. Census Bureau. It ranked 45th in the nation in per-capita highway expenditures in 2012, spending about $260 per person, less than California's roughly $300 and well below the $493 spent by Oklahoma, according to the Journal analysis.

It just seems like the group think on this board believes that all the shortcomings Oklahoma might have comes from not being liberal enough. The coasts are liberal. The major U.S. cities are liberal. There should be some place that conservative people can live and call home and not have to hear how stupid and backward they are or be embarrased because of their views. I swear, I think some on here would like it if it were possible to make it illegal to be conservative.

[Plutonic Panda]

That interesting. You can all these numbers you want on it, but why does Texas have better highways then?

[Stew]

A few weekends ago I went down to Dallas to view GWB's paintings at his presidential library. I thoroughly enjoyed the George's place but as usual totally turned off by the mix master highway exchanges and suicidal Texan drivers. Going to dallas always makes me homesick for OKC. How do folks live that way?