Texas Problems

[Bunty]

I much rather have Texas problems than Oklahoma's set of their problems. Yes, DFW has a traffic problem with issues and it can get frustrating navigating the highways and streets. The driver's are pretty aggressive in DFW, however, my perception is DFW has a bright future and will continue to grow and prosper! Texas has a better image than Oklahoma. More friendly business environment, no taxes on groceries, no state income tax, better roads.

Probably Oklahoma's state legislators don't get out of state much, so they are out of touch as to how other states have it better than Oklahoma.

[soonerguru]

I much rather have Texas problems than Oklahoma's set of their problems. Yes, DFW has a traffic problem with issues and it can get frustrating navigating the highways and streets. The driver's are pretty aggressive in DFW, however, my perception is DFW has a bright future and will continue to grow and prosper! Texas has a better image than Oklahoma. More friendly business environment, no taxes on groceries, no state income tax, better roads.

Bad comparison. Oklahoma Republicans are trying to get rid of the income tax, but in so doing, are destroying our education system and replacing the income tax with more regressive fees and hidden taxes. We are booming economically but because so many of these morons think we should be like Texas, and that we should remove the income tax, that now, despite our good economy, we have a government funding crisis.

The reason Texas has no income tax is because they charge higher property taxes, higher corporate franchise taxes, and they charge more for everything from tires to car tags. No thanks. Texas looks really good because of all of the corporate headquarters but it is a regressive, third-world state with massive income disparity.

[Plutonic Panda]

You know why Texas doesn't have an income tax? Look at how high their property taxes are. I've said this a million times, let cut our income tax, that is fine, but raise the property taxes through the roof to cover for that.

[Bunty]

You know why Texas doesn't have an income tax? Look at how high their property taxes are. I've said this a million times, let cut our income tax, that is fine, but raise the property taxes through the roof to cover for that.

True, assuming citizens in counties and cities would want to vote higher property taxes upon themselves.

[Teo9969]

Raising property taxes would be fine with me…in theory, it would do a better job of burdening the well-off rather than the average joe because many average joe's own no property so they would have more disposable (assuming that rents don't get jacked up over the amount that they would have paid in income tax).

[bradh]

Bad comparison. Oklahoma Republicans are trying to get rid of the income tax, but in so doing, are destroying our education system and replacing the income tax with more regressive fees and hidden taxes. We are booming economically but because so many of these morons think we should be like Texas, and that we should remove the income tax, that now, despite our good economy, we have a government funding crisis.

The reason Texas has no income tax is because they charge higher property taxes, higher corporate franchise taxes, and they charge more for everything from tires to car tags. No thanks. Texas looks really good because of all of the corporate headquarters but it is a regressive, third-world state with massive income disparity.

Car tags are absolutely cheaper in Texas.

[Snowman]

Raising property taxes would be fine with me…in theory, it would do a better job of burdening the well-off rather than the average joe because many average joe's own no property so they would have more disposable (assuming that rents don't get jacked up over the amount that they would have paid in income tax).

Generally that will not be the case for the most well off, there property is a much smaller percentage of wealth. It ends up putting a disproportionate share of tax on the middle class and of course it affects rent.

[adaniel]

Car tags are absolutely cheaper in Texas.

Car tax is MUCH higher though on purchases though. Also, you have to get yearly inspections (although I am not complaining on that one given how many smoky jalopies were putting around OKC with their bumper/muffer/lights about to fall off)

[bluedogok]

Raising property taxes would be fine with me…in theory, it would do a better job of burdening the well-off rather than the average joe because many average joe's own no property so they would have more disposable (assuming that rents don't get jacked up over the amount that they would have paid in income tax).

When renting property the tenant is paying the property taxes, it is just bundled with your rent. If a property owner isn't doing that then they are losing money.

Our house was somewhat cheap by Austin standards at an appraised value of $155,000, I looked up what the taxes are this year and it went up another $260 from the appraisal for 2012 (when we sold it) and is now over $4,000 a year in property taxes alone. You also have higher homeowners insurance in the state due to hurricanes, wildfires, hail damage and mold lawsuits which drove some insurers out of the state for a year or two, we had 30 days to find new insurance after a decision by the insurance commission. Our taxes in Aurora on a house appraised around $240,000 is less than half that in Austin and the insurance is about a third of what it was in Austin.

Car tags are absolutely cheaper in Texas.

Not really, they are pretty similar in price now but back when I lived in Dallas and moved back to OKC there was a significant difference in the tags alone. Then only to get a bill for personal property tax on my vehicle in Dallas County which brought the total up to pretty much the same as Oklahoma back then, not sure if they still do that. We didn't have a separate vehicle tax in Travis County. As Snowman stated property taxes do hit the middle income people much harder than the wealthy.

As adaniel stated, the initial purchase taxes are much higher in Texas than in Oklahoma. They are pretty high here in Colorado, for renewals there is a big difference between my car (2003 BMW Z4) and my wife's car (2007 Toyota 4Runner), my car was around $80, hers was almost $300. The motorcycle I moved up here was around $45 (2000 Triumph Sprint ST), my new one (2012 Kawasaki Concours14) is about $200 for renewal. The initial taxes between the state and county were almost $2,500 on a $13,000 motorcycle. Part of that was an increase in vehicle taxes voted on by the people a year or so before we moved up here that almost doubled the taxes. We also have a small (5x7) utility trailer, that costs us about $40 a year and was about the same in Texas, you don't have to tag those in Oklahoma. Our vehicle insurance is also cheaper here and it was in Oklahoma before I moved in 2003.

Like I stated before, states/counties are going to get their tax money but use different methods to get it.

[LocoAko]

Does OKC need one? Is it a neccessity? If they choose to live somewhere than OKC that doesn't hurt OKC. OKC doesn't have to have one of eveything that another city might have.

Yep... we shouldn't be to worried about small sectors of the population but instead concentrate on creating opportunity for all.
That starts by having a vibrant economy for all and not wasting our limited time and limited resources on social engineering for a select few. This is were a rising tide will lift all boats if we do it right.

With all due respect, these posts are so clearly written from the perspective of a member of the majority they are painful to read.

Yes, OKC needs one. Diversity is good for everyone (just like your focus on economics). There's a reason most world class "big league" cities have notable LGBT populations. More to the point, is there no focus on being a WELCOMING place for people (these so-called "small-sectors" of the population)? Is everything just about job growth and keeping up with highways for you folks? "Social engineering"? Is that what we're calling inclusiveness these days? *eyeroll*

Not to mention the obvious stupidity that creating a welcoming community for LGBT folks is somehow counteractive to economic growth in any way (hint: it'd probably help). These are separate issues.

[ou48A]

With all due respect, these posts are so clearly written from the perspective of a member of the majority they are painful to read.

Yes, OKC needs one. Diversity is good for everyone (just like your focus on economics). There's a reason most world class "big league" cities have notable LGBT populations. More to the point, is there no focus on being a WELCOMING place for people (these so-called "small-sectors" of the population)? Is everything just about job growth and keeping up with highways for you folks? "Social engineering"? Is that what we're calling inclusiveness these days? *eyeroll*

Not to mention the obvious stupidity that creating a welcoming community for LGBT folks is somehow counteractive to economic growth in any way (hint: it'd probably help). These are separate issues.

What I'm talking about creates a welcoming community for everybody.... !
Your way has divided virtually everyone into sub groups.
This divides and pits these groups against each other..... Thus weakening our entire society.
Your way is very clearly currently failing, which is far more painful to watch...
Your way is actually much more intolerant and by a great amount because of the divisions that are created.
We need to move away from what divides us and toward what unites us!
By doing so we can create higher levels of economic prosperity, thus creating far more opportunity for all and a better way of life for all.

[bluedogok]

The ironic thing is that Austin doesn't have gayborhoods like Dallas or Houston, they just lived everywhere and lived lives like everyone else does, more fully integrated. Sure they have some LBGT organizations and activities but there wasn't as big of a focus on it as there was when I lived in Dallas. My wife and I had several gay co-workers and they seemed to really like that fact that they were not treated differently. It did require a bit of adjustment for those who moved from Dallas or Houston because they were used to having a "gay area" to meet like minded people and hang out. I think it was harder on the younger, college student age gay population from other places as those seemed to be the ones who vocalized that opinion the most. Denver seems a bit more integrated to me than Dallas or Houston as well.

[bchris02]

I am not gay, but will say that cities that are vibrant and culturally rich are welcoming of diversity, including LGBT individuals. Statistically gay people are more likely to support cultural amenities, especially the arts, are well educated and have high disposable income. Though small, that's not a demographic that the city should want to run off. I have no idea what its like to be gay in OKC, but my guess is this is a pretty hostile place. Maybe LocoAko can correct me if I am wrong about that.

[LocoAko]

What I'm talking about creates a welcoming community for everybody.... !
Your way has divided virtually everyone into sub groups.
This divides and pits these groups against each other..... Thus weakening our entire society.
Your way is very clearly currently failing, which is far more painful to watch...
Your way is actually much more intolerant and by a great amount because of the divisions that are created.
We need to move away from what divides us and toward what unites us!
By doing so we can create higher levels of economic prosperity, thus creating far more opportunity for all and a better way of life for all.

To be honest I'm not really sure how this is a valid response to my post as it seems like a bunch of empty statements and platitudes and I think you missed my point entirely (perhaps on purpose), but alrighty...

[venture]

To be honest I'm not really sure how this is a valid response to my post as it seems like a bunch of empty statements and platitudes and I think you missed my point entirely (perhaps on purpose), but alrighty...

When a serious issue is too uncomfortable for someone to discuss directly or they simply lack the understanding of how to address it, responding with open ended talking points is about the only want those types can deal with it. Politicians are an excellent example of this.

[mugofbeer]

The ironic thing is that Austin doesn't have gayborhoods like Dallas or Houston, they just lived everywhere and lived lives like everyone else does, more fully integrated. Sure they have some LBGT organizations and activities but there wasn't as big of a focus on it as there was when I lived in Dallas. My wife and I had several gay co-workers and they seemed to really like that fact that they were not treated differently. It did require a bit of adjustment for those who moved from Dallas or Houston because they were used to having a "gay area" to meet like minded people and hang out. I think it was harder on the younger, college student age gay population from other places as those seemed to be the ones who vocalized that opinion the most. Denver seems a bit more integrated to me than Dallas or Houston as well.

Vouch for Denver. Only area I am aware of is S of downtown but its not concentrated. The gay community is all over in Denver and is very affluent.

[Bunty]

I am not gay, but will say that cities that are vibrant and culturally rich are welcoming of diversity, including LGBT individuals. Statistically gay people are more likely to support cultural amenities, especially the arts, are well educated and have high disposable income. Though small, that's not a demographic that the city should want to run off. I have no idea what its like to be gay in OKC, but my guess is this is a pretty hostile place.

I think some of the elected politicians, such as Rep. Sally Kern, give the idea that OKC is a hostile, unfriendly place. I don't see such an atmosphere making a number of gays feel welcome to stay in OKC or Oklahoma, unless they want to stay and fight for equality as a matter of personal principle. However, on the other hand, Al McAffrey, the state's first openly gay state senator, may not think his OKC district is all that hostile, since he won his election with over 60% of the vote. It will be interesting to see how far McAffrey gets with his race for congress, 5th district.

[ou48A]

To be honest I'm not really sure how this is a valid response to my post as it seems like a bunch of empty statements and platitudes and I think you missed my point entirely (perhaps on purpose), but alrighty...

What.... You mean wanting equal and more opportunity for all is “empty statements and platitudes”
What a load of bull crap your mind must endure.
I would really hate to have such a narrow mined point of view as what you have.

[ou48A]

When a serious issue is too uncomfortable for someone to discuss directly or they simply lack the understanding of how to address it, responding with open ended talking points is about the only want those types can deal with it. Politicians are an excellent example of this.

Or in my case I recognize the stupidity of dividing the community over things that do not help anyone lead a better life.

[Bunty]

Or in my case I recognize the stupidity of dividing the community over things that do not help anyone lead a better life.

So former Mayor Humphreys' efforts to ban gay banners along streets, such as Classen Boulevard, is an example of trying to divide the community, while it never helped anyone lead a better life?

Mayor urging change in city banner policy Gay, lesbian message protected, lawyer says | News OK

[LocoAko]

What.... You mean wanting equal and more opportunity for all is “empty statements and platitudes”
What a load of bull crap your mind must endure.
I would really hate to have such a narrow mined point of view as what you have.

Or in my case I recognize the stupidity of dividing the community over things that do not help anyone lead a better life.

Thanks for the personal insults, but there's more to life than economics, you know. I agree that we should try to improve the economics for everyone in this city -- everyone would. What I don't understand is how that is at all relevant to fostering a welcoming gay community (or Asian, or Muslim, or Hispanic, or....) since they aren't at odds with each other and in fact I think would strengthen each other. How would a welcoming gay community DIVIDE the city? And yes, having resources and a community does help those in a minority group have a better [quality of] life.... how simple minded of you to demand otherwise. I'm glad to see everything about quality of life in this city is (apparently) just about money and a proverbial rising tide that will lift all boats. Feelings of inclusion, safety, and like-mindedness are totally overrated, anyway....

I'm not trying to start a battle here, but the assertions that economics are the most important thing always and that OKC should participate in "social engineering" for "small sectors" of the population are really closed-minded and pretty insulting.

[Dubya61]

Or in my case I recognize the stupidity of dividing the community over things that do not help anyone lead a better life.

How is recognizing and celebrating diversity something that divides the community?

[Dubya61]

I'm not trying to start a battle here, but the assertions that economics are the most important thing always and that OKC should participate in "social engineering" for "small sectors" of the population are really closed-minded and pretty insulting.

Further, wouldn't the tide rise higher and faster if all diverse sorts of brains were here in OKC to help solve problems? A monochromatic OKC will never succeed.

[Jersey Boss]

Further, wouldn't the tide rise higher and faster if all diverse sorts of brains were here in OKC to help solve problems? A monochromatic OKC will never succeed.

No matter how many lanes the streets have!

[Bunty]

How is recognizing and celebrating diversity something that divides the community?

Ask former Mayor Humphreys that, assuming he hasn't recognized his attitudes against the gay community have surely become outdated.