Oklahoma Turnpike Authority

[Midtowner]

[QUOTE=fortpatches;1222410]If you want to read a recent Law Review Note about Tribal Sovereignty and a State's power of Eminent Domain, you can check this out:
Partially Tribal Land:The Case for Limiting State Eminent Domain Power under 25 USC § 357 [PDF]
tl/dr: Federal statute allows state eminent domain for condemnation of tribal lands allotted to individual landowners, but not of lands held by a tribal entity. (Please see the Note for appropriate citations. There are 175, not including the Note Title.)

And @Midtowner, no, McGirt was not overturned.

Concurrent jurisdiction does not create near the problems as the grant of tribal governments to exclusive jurisdiction for criminal prosecutions. For all intents and purposes, yes, McGirt was overturned in the sense that the more recent ruling does not create near the headache for the system as McGirt did. I think it also headed off some very problematic developments in looking at the criminal aspects of McGirt jurisdiction creep into taxing and civil jurisdiciton by the state courts. The native governments just aren't ready for that and they're really ill equipped to handle things like major infrastructure projects.

And regarding the Law Review Note, that's just an opinion, i.e., it's nice to be nice to native governments. It's not the law. While the 10th Circuit has held pretty much in accordance with that Note, I'm not sure how that shakes out in other jurisdictions. The 10th Circuit is, compared to other jurisdictions a lot more favorable to Native interests than other circuits, or even the SCOTUS these days.

[Dob Hooligan]

I'm confused. From the piece I heard on NPR the other day and an article on KFOR's website a couple days ago the land belongs to the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation. Not any tribe. The Bureau works very closely with tribes but if the land belongs to the Bureau then it belongs to the Federal Government.

I think we are discussing different land areas-you are referring to the actual proposed turnpike on the west side of Lake Thunderbird, and the Indian discussions are about the east side of the lake.

[Bill Robertson]

I think we are discussing different land areas-you are referring to the actual proposed turnpike on the west side of Lake Thunderbird, and the Indian discussions are about the east side of the lake.

Ok. I missed that there were two different paths involved.

[jedicurt]

Ok. I missed that there were two different paths involved.

yes. so the fed land is on the East side, and they said that the turnpike can not go on this land. there was then a conversation off if this would kill the project (it won't) if it would go to the East side of the lake (tribal land discussion) or just move further west to avoid the Federal Land (probably what will happen). i think that brings you up too speed on what all the discussion has been about. But the initial start of it was the info you heard on NPR.

[Jeremy Martin]

So I guess the question is how much further west would they need to go? East 48th? If so now we are talking double the amount of homes being taken out than before? Just looking at the map it seems way more logical to go east of the lake. I really can't think of a reason the tribe would not want the turnpike to bring more commerce to the area but I can also understand if they were to say no to protect tribal members property in the area.
Seems way cheaper to go east.

[Martin]

So I guess the question is how much further west would they need to go? East 48th? If so now we are talking double the amount of homes being taken out than before? Just looking at the map it seems way more logical to go east of the lake. I really can't think of a reason the tribe would not want the turnpike to bring more commerce to the area but I can also understand if they were to say no to protect tribal members property in the area.
Seems way cheaper to go east.

looking at the map in the article that jersey boss linked to in post 585, it looks to me as if moving the route from 1/5 of a mile east of 72nd to 1/5 of a mile west of 72nd would solve the federal land issue. the article states that the usbr is willing to negotiate crossing pipelines and flowage easements, so this route might address the issues with federal land.

my understanding is that ota avoided the eastern route for two main reasons. first, the route would have been a little longer which would have marginally increased construction and maintenance costs. second, and probably of greater importance, i think there was concern that the eastern route would reduce usage rates from norman citizens.

[Jeremy Martin]

my understanding is that ota avoided the eastern route for two main reasons. first, the route would have been a little longer which would have marginally increased construction and maintenance costs. second, and probably of greater importance, i think there was concern that the eastern route would reduce usage rates from norman citizens.[/QUOTE]

Lots of flood plain area around the little river around Franklin/Tecumseh if they go that way.

In the grand scheme of things the traffic gained or lost by Norman residents in the area doesn't seem to be that much. But I'm sure they have some traffic model that gives them more data than we have.
One the flip side, wasn't this spur proposed to move interstate traffic off of 35 and around the metro? If that is the case, why worry about making it easier for a few thousand people east of Norman to go north or south on the new toll road?

[TornadoKegan]

What are the chances of the turnpike going east of the lake and the East West Connector following the original route of the south expansion going to indian hills rd and going west to i44

[Jeepnokc]

Does anyone have a recent diagram showing how and where it goes from I44 back west to connect?

[Martin]

Does anyone have a recent diagram showing how and where it goes from I44 back west to connect?

this is probably your best bet:
https://www.accessoklahoma.com/

[Jeepnokc]

this is probably your best bet:
https://www.accessoklahoma.com/

Thanks martin. I heard the airport wasnt going to give up any land which forces it closer to my property at sw 104/MacArthur

[jedicurt]

Thanks martin. I heard the airport wasnt going to give up any land which forces it closer to my property at sw 104/MacArthur

i believe you are correct. i heard this as well. last i heard from a survey group working with OTA, the plan they are looking at is to keep it south of 104th till west of MacAurthur, and then cross 104th just west of Regina Ave, and then i don't know if it will cross 89th east or west or regina, but then run north in the open land north of 89th, all the way to 152. so it does sound like the OTA is looking at trying to avoid all of the Airport land (or atleast are surveying to see the feasibility

[Zuplar]

Wow that would be interesting as I’m assuming they would have to buy all those houses at the front of Old Tuscany which I believe is the neighborhood Jeepnokc lives in. I live just down the street and my wife and I looked at that house that’s on 104th, just a couple down from the Milam castle when it went up for sale as we’d wanted something on 5 acres and didn’t want to change schools. If they build it where you are saying that house would have to go.

[SEMIweather]

That proposed Tri-City Connector route is the only one where I don't understand why OTA is bothering. The East-West Connector, Kickapoo Extension, and Gilcrease Extension all clearly have their merits but except for peak, peak rush hour traffic, I'm thinking that the Tri-City Connector is going to shave, what, maybe a minute off of the current SH-152 to I-44 route? And possibly even less if they end up taking some wonky route that weaves around subdivisions a la the Kilpatrick Extension.

[Jeepnokc]

Wow that would be interesting as I’m assuming they would have to buy all those houses at the front of Old Tuscany which I believe is the neighborhood Jeepnokc lives in. I live just down the street and my wife and I looked at that house that’s on 104th, just a couple down from the Milam castle when it went up for sale as we’d wanted something on 5 acres and didn’t want to change schools. If they build it where you are saying that house would have to go.

The plan doesn't seem clear to me and still seems to show on the website a little different plan which is the old plan that we have all heard won't work. Thy could stay south of 104th (that is still all airport land though) and then cut up along MacArthur up to 89tj and them cut over. Would ne taking the back side of a lot of acres lots though. I am in Olde Tuscany and I am one of the lots on the east side backing up to the airport land.

What makes more sense is to go south of olde tuscany (but need to act soon as they have just approved a subdivision there) and the turn back north just west of Olde Tuscany which is still farm land and then run up the west side of Regina which is farmland Would have to take out a few house but would be minimal. (And maybe the god awful Milam Castle)

[catch22]

The Airport Trust being protectionary of that land when there is a 0% chance of it being utilized for aviation purposes in the next 50 years is hilarious to me -- meanwhile, they have used some prime land to lease to a gas station and cancer screening facility on the other side of the airport that is probably the most likely to be needed for an aviation use in that same time frame.

[Jeepnokc]

The Airport Trust being protectionary of that land when there is a 0% chance of it being utilized for aviation purposes in the next 50 years is hilarious to me -- meanwhile, they have used some prime land to lease to a gas station and cancer screening facility on the other side of the airport that is probably the most likely to be needed for an aviation use in that same time frame.

But it will make it easier for me to get a good cup of coffee in the morning i agree with you though

[Zuplar]

The plan doesn't seem clear to me and still seems to show on the website a little different plan which is the old plan that we have all heard won't work. Thy could stay south of 104th (that is still all airport land though) and then cut up along MacArthur up to 89tj and them cut over. Would ne taking the back side of a lot of acres lots though. I am in Olde Tuscany and I am one of the lots on the east side backing up to the airport land.

What makes more sense is to go south of olde tuscany (but need to act soon as they have just approved a subdivision there) and the turn back north just west of Olde Tuscany which is still farm land and then run up the west side of Regina which is farmland Would have to take out a few house but would be minimal. (And maybe the god awful Milam Castle)

Their original plan actually makes the most amount of sense. Surely they can figure out a way to maybe just shift it some and make the airport happy as the original plan I thought did a good job of staying towards the edge of the airport property.

[Martin]

i had not heard anything about challenges with the route around the airport... seems like this will be way more challenging if the airport doesn't cooperate.

(And maybe the god awful Milam Castle)

ha... i remember seeing that on the market a year or two ago. it looked to me like somebody built an events center and tried to disguise it as a house. do you know if it ever sold?

[Jeepnokc]

ha... i remember seeing that on the market a year or two ago. it looked to me like somebody built an events center and tried to disguise it as a house. do you know if it ever sold?

I don't think so, It basically a big finished barn with an apartment in the back. The HOA was getting ready to file a lawsuit when one of the owners came down with cancer so they stopped doing events.

[Snowman]

Their original plan actually makes the most amount of sense. Surely they can figure out a way to maybe just shift it some and make the airport happy as the original plan I thought did a good job of staying towards the edge of the airport property.

Making sense for the road does not mean it makes sense for the airport, the route Pete showed has it going where they reserved an option for another runway, which is way wider than the road would be. There also could be issues using airport land that was paid for even partially with federal funds if it is not deemed serving the airport.

[Richard at Remax]

i had not heard anything about challenges with the route around the airport... seems like this will be way more challenging if the airport doesn't cooperate.



ha... i remember seeing that on the market a year or two ago. it looked to me like somebody built an events center and tried to disguise it as a house. do you know if it ever sold?

It actually sold last September for $1.75mil. Only took 5 different Realtors and a significant drop in price from what they originally asked for in 2019 ($6.8mil!) lol

[Plutonic Panda]

I’m out of the loop. What is the status of the east to west connector and south extension? Does this mean they’re dead?

[Jersey Boss]

There is an article online where the OKLAHOMAN alleges a legislator whose house was in the proposed route was paid 100K over the appraised value of her house.

[Pete]

There is an article online where the OKLAHOMAN alleges a legislator whose house was in the proposed route was paid 100K over the appraised value of her house.

It also says there are reasons why the price was upped and that the value wasn't considered unusual.

Just click-bait IMO.