Oklahoma Turnpike Authority

[brianinok]

Similar is the key word for me. I don't know of a government agency who's purpose is to "yield a return to it's investors". IMO if they were an official government agency the concern would be for the citizens, not the investors/bond holders who are mentioned numerous times on the OTA site.
However, my opinion could be clouded by my disdain of paying way too much $ just to drive to Tulsa.

Don't know of a government agency who's purpose is to yield a return to its investors? How about every governmental agency that issues bonds?? A huge part of the investor economy is buying government-issued bonds. All the way from small municipalities to housing authorities to states to the US government.

[Plutonic Panda]

it was the oral arguments before the Oklahoma supreme court .. it was the big court date .. they will issue their decision in their own time ..

When do we expect a court decision?

[s00nr1]

Pike Off OTA wins summary judgment on all counts. A phenomenal day.

[josefromtulsa]

Pike Off OTA wins summary judgment on all counts. A phenomenal day.

So they cant go through with the bonds as they are?

[Plutonic Panda]

Thankfully it seems like the OTA is confident the new turnpikes will still be built. Just have to go back and redo some things. Just a bunch of NIMBYs taking advantage of endless red tape laws that make building infrastructure do difficult in this country.

Oh the small chance the opposition wins i guess we can all sit back and watch as their little bubble gets overrun with sprawl(which is coming regardless) with no way to address the inevitable congestion. Edmond has already made that mistake. There’s really a lot of people in this city that don’t want growth but sure want the pluses that come with it.

[s00nr1]

Thankfully it seems like the OTA is confident the new turnpikes will still be built. Just have to go back and redo some things. Just a bunch of NIMBYs taking advantage of endless red tape laws that make building infrastructure do difficult in this country.

Oh the small chance the opposition wins i guess we can all sit back and watch as their little bubble gets overrun with sprawl(which is coming regardless) with no way to address the inevitable congestion. Edmond has already made that mistake. There’s really a lot of people in this city that don’t want growth but sure want the pluses that come with it.

PluPlan, do you personally (not your parents) own a home/property?

[Plutonic Panda]

PluPlan, do you personally (not your parents) own a home/property?

Yes more than one actually and even if I didn’t I fail to see how that is relevant in any way. Why don’t you try to make an argument about the point not bring what I own or not trying to discredit my opinions. It’s a weak argument.

Either way, it seems like this won’t impact the projects too much just will require the OTA to go back and redo the meetings. That’ll buy Pike Off more time to try and pull of whatever they can come up with to cause further delays ultimately canceling the project. Welcome to infrastructure building 101 in America. It’s part of the reason why the USA has some of the highest cost of infrastructure building of any modern country in the world.

The OTA just needs to make sure they are careful on what they do now and I would bet they will be.

[jn1780]

The case that matters is the one at the OK Supreme Court. That is the one the determines bond use by OTA.

[Dob Hooligan]

Pike Off OTA wins summary judgment on all counts. A phenomenal day.

Looks like an elected judge serving the pathway of the proposed turnpike wants to be elected again. This is what appeals courts are for.

[Jersey Boss]

Looks like an elected judge serving the pathway of the proposed turnpike wants to be elected again. This is what appeals courts are for.

This elected judge serves and sits in Seminole County.

[Jeremy Martin]

I've mentioned that the OTA has already purchased numerous properties on Indian Hills, but I haven't head about any purchases in east Norman/Noble yet. Just finishing the route between Mustang and the Kickapoo spur should help with some of the through traffic between i-35 and i-40.
I still don't see the need for the east Norman part of this yet.

[Plutonic Panda]

Looks like an elected judge serving the pathway of the proposed turnpike wants to be elected again. This is what appeals courts are for.

I honestly wondered about that. Seems like a conflict of interest to even allow that judge to make a ruling if that is the case.

[Plutonic Panda]

Article from Fox 25:

https://okcfox.com/news/local/oklaho...cember-1-2022#

KFOR story: https://kfor.com/news/local/judge-ru...olation-trial/

[BoulderSooner]

So they cant go through with the bonds as they are?

this was not deciding that it was just about open meeting act violations ... it doesn't change much or set back the OTA really at all

[Dob Hooligan]

This elected judge serves and sits in Seminole County.

So why is the case and ruling from Cleveland County? Innocent question.

[bombermwc]

this was not deciding that it was just about open meeting act violations ... it doesn't change much or set back the OTA really at all

Right, the bond question is the bigger one. Cut the funding, and how do you proceed. All they will do with this ruling is change their processes for future meetings and potentially have an "open" meeting to show the plan for this and call it done. Even if they start the official meeting process over, the end result won't change from just this meeting. It's good for the future though to tell OTA that they have to play by the rules.

Supreme Court with the Bond....now that's the juicy one.

[FighttheGoodFight]

So why is the case and ruling from Cleveland County? Innocent question.

The Cleveland county judge who got the case recused himself. So this judge took over.

[Plutonic Panda]

this was not deciding that it was just about open meeting act violations ... it doesn't change much or set back the OTA really at all

Do you have any insight on when that meeting will be held? And if the OTA will have to hold an additional meetings or how it would take? I wouldn’t expect very long.

[David]

Article from Fox 25:

https://okcfox.com/news/local/oklaho...cember-1-2022#

KFOR story: https://kfor.com/news/local/judge-ru...olation-trial/

Tassie Hirschfeld, a lead plaintiff, says she believes todays development invalidates all current contracts for the project.

This just feels like wishful thinking from someone who thinks their magical gotcha actually means something.

[Plutonic Panda]

This just feels like wishful thinking from someone who thinks their magical gotcha actually means something.

That was my opinion as well. The more I read about this the more I realize how insignificant this ruling actually is. This is the equivalent to a speed bump in a parking lot.

[BoulderSooner]

This just feels like wishful thinking from someone who thinks their magical gotcha actually means something.

very much so ..

[Midtowner]

The ruling is a pretty big deal in that it basically seems to follow Oklahoma law. It's based on solid Oklahoma Supreme Court precedent, and very much reminds me of the old Oklahoma Industrail Authority from the 1970s. Probably their most memorable debacle was the ad valorem tax break they promised to the General Motors Plant in Midwest City. The Attorney General and the Midwest City School District sued alleging among other things that the Authority didn't have that power and nevertheless, they had numerous violations of the Open Records/Open Meetings Acts.

Similarly, the courts reversed nearly every action taken by the OIA. It seems that every few decades, some state agency is going to get too big for its britches and get spanked. I think this may be one of those cases. Every once in awhile, state agencies find out that they don't have the power to act with impunity and that they have to follow the law.

On an unrelated note, I hope similar accountability comes to the OKC Alliance at some point as I believe a public-private partnership built to circumvent the law should not be found to be a legally effective entity for that purpose, but that's another fight for another day.

Now, all that said, I imagine in OTA's very worst case scenario, they simply have the meetings again, dot their Is, cross their ts, and they can have that very same route approved in a few months' time. While the engineering reports, etc. will have to be resubmitted and re-approved, I don't imagine much, if anything has changed about any of that.

And I do hope that the appellate courts let this stand and send a message to the OTA and other state actors that acting in the light of day is part of their job description.

[BoulderSooner]

The ruling is a pretty big deal in that it basically seems to follow Oklahoma law. It's based on solid Oklahoma Supreme Court precedent, and very much reminds me of the old Oklahoma Industrail Authority from the 1970s. Probably their most memorable debacle was the ad valorem tax break they promised to the General Motors Plant in Midwest City. The Attorney General and the Midwest City School District sued alleging among other things that the Authority didn't have that power and nevertheless, they had numerous violations of the Open Records/Open Meetings Acts.

Similarly, the courts reversed nearly every action taken by the OIA. It seems that every few decades, some state agency is going to get too big for its britches and get spanked. I think this may be one of those cases. Every once in awhile, state agencies find out that they don't have the power to act with impunity and that they have to follow the law.

On an unrelated note, I hope similar accountability comes to the OKC Alliance at some point as I believe a public-private partnership built to circumvent the law should not be found to be a legally effective entity for that purpose, but that's another fight for another day.

Now, all that said, I imagine in OTA's very worst case scenario, they simply have the meetings again, dot their Is, cross their ts, and they can have that very same route approved in a few months' time. While the engineering reports, etc. will have to be resubmitted and re-approved, I don't imagine much, if anything has changed about any of that.

And I do hope that the appellate courts let this stand and send a message to the OTA and other state actors that acting in the light of day is part of their job description.

thank you for the analysis

[Jersey Boss]

Another salvo fired at OTA.

New lawsuit: Over $42 million unlawfully spent by OTA
https://kfor.com/news/local/new-laws...pansion-plans/

[TheTravellers]

A bunch of those "innocent explanation", "mistake", "no big deal", "oops" posts haven't aged very well...