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Thread: OKC Public Schools

  1. #201

    Default Re: OKC Public Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    That's just false. Charters are public schools which are not allowed to discriminate. One can only enroll by being selected in a lottery or on a first come/first serve basis. Charters absolutely have to provide IEP programs. Now, are you going to have a profound/non-verbal spectrum student apply to a college preparatory charter school? Probably not. See Title 70, section 3- 136(7) of the Oklahoma Statutes. Link provided.

    https://www.oscn.net/applications/os...?CiteID=104637

    I understand what the statue stays...
    Which charter schools have programs that actually address live pupils (some offer online programs) who are high challenged with mental deficiencies. How many offer programs like Learning Disabilities (LD), Educable Mentally Handicapped (EMH), Emotionally Disturbed (ED)--name which charter schools actually offer these programs...

    Epic IIRC have on-line curriculum...

    Oklahoma City Public Schools (I-89) offers these programs. Recall processing many transfers because some schools don't have programs--IEPs that address these needs... Putnam City has beefed up and addressed the needs of students with deficiencies; they provide in class instruction, transportation services...

    Public School Districts today are being called upon to address needs of the individual high challenged students they serve. Some how large districts like OKC get a bad rap about the education they offer. Again, it's the responsibility of parents to be more active in they child's education.

    Also, children are labeled who ride those yellow school mini-buses. I heard them being referred to as--excuse the expression 'Retard bus.'

    Forgive me, don't want to get started on the emphasis we (Oklahomans) should put on education. Funding is essential, more important is to weed out ineffective teachers who are just there to draw a pay warrant...

  2. #202

    Default Re: OKC Public Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by HOT ROD View Post
    by-law and by-practice are oftentimes mutually exclusive.

    while it may be illegal for prep schools to discriminate against IEP they do ask if the child is IN ONE; that alone can provide a subjective opinion as to why the child may not succeed in an accelerated program whereas in reality the child may just have a "behavioral" problem that they don't want to deal with. ...

    reality does not often meet ideology.
    Okay, so it's pretty hard to win when you make up a completely hypothetical situation which you can't show has happened, let alone whether it is pervasive within the system. Do better.

  3. #203

    Default Re: OKC Public Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Laramie View Post
    I understand what the statue stays...


    Which is but the first step in solving my riddles three...

    Which charter schools have programs that actually address live pupils (some offer online programs) who are high challenged with mental deficiencies. How many offer programs like Learning Disabilities (LD), Educable Mentally Handicapped (EMH), Emotionally Disturbed (ED)--name which charter schools actually offer these programs...
    Theoretically, if those students won the lottery and were admitted, even with the otherwise accelerated curriculum, students would (and are) given IEPs. Now, as a parent, I don't think you're going to put an EMH child in a college prep school. If you did, they'd have to make accommodations. That's the law.

    Oklahoma City Public Schools (I-89) offers these programs. Recall processing many transfers because some schools don't have programs--IEPs that address these needs... Putnam City has beefed up and addressed the needs of students with deficiencies; they provide in class instruction, transportation services...
    And if it came down to it, a OKC charter could always contract with OKCPS to provide those services, though again, it's unlikely a parent is going to want to send a student with an IQ of 60 to a college prep school.

    And before you label them elitist or something to that effect, bear in mind that while charters legally cannot discriminate on who is admitted, OKCPS has a robust network of magnet schools, i.e., Classen MS and HS, Southeast, which absolutely do discriminate, and they absolutely don't admit EMH or ED students, so save the moral outrage.

  4. #204

    Default Re: OKC Public Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post


    Which is but the first step in solving my riddles three...

    Hey Midtowner, I deal with this daily: "What goes on four feet in the morning, two feet at noon, and three feet in the evening? (Answer: a person: A person as a baby in the morning of their life crawls on four feet (hands and knees).
    Theoretically, if those students won the lottery and were admitted, even with the otherwise accelerated curriculum, students would (and are) given IEPs. Now, as a parent, I don't think you're going to put an EMH child in a college prep school. If you did, they'd have to make accommodations. That's the law.



    And if it came down to it, an OKC charter could always contract with OKCPS to provide those services, though again, it's unlikely a parent is going to want to send a student with an IQ of 60 to a college prep school.

    And before you label them elitist or something to that effect, bear in mind that while charters legally cannot discriminate on who is admitted, OKCPS has a robust network of magnet schools, i.e., Classen MS and HS, Southeast, which absolutely do discriminate, and they absolutely don't admit EMH or ED students, so save the moral outrage.
    Recall when OKCPS went to the magnet school approach, many people were skeptical at the time--many like the results now.

    Good response, Midtowner

  5. #205

    Default Re: OKC Public Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Laramie View Post
    Recall when OKCPS went to the magnet school approach, many people were skeptical at the time--many like the results now.

    Good response, Midtowner
    I'm not sure I'm thrilled with magnets. Charters show you what maybe could have been/could be, i.e., here are schools who don't get to discriminate, have to deal with whatever burdens are delivered to the classroom, and they do fine. Not just fine, but in some cases, they are nationally recognized for excellence.

    KIPP, for example, has 96% economically disadvantaged students, yet they boast an outstanding graduation rate and have solid college placement.

    OKCPS is a humdrum of beureaucratic nonsense, which until the current superintendent hire, was led by weak/timid superintendents who gave in to individual loudmouth schoolboard members or organized communities who did not represent the student population as a whole. He's gone all in on magnets, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. While OKC now does have a couple of gems which you can get your child into if you start them on music lessons at an early age [privilege!!] or if your child is gifted enough to test-in, which again [privilege!!], then OKCPS is for you.

    For everyone else, they've basically announced that other students aren't really a priority, and you're on your own as a student if the magnet wasn't a fit. We saw a great flash in the pan at U.S. Grant a few years ago, where the faculty was let go and replaced with a newer faculty who learned basic Spanish. The school made it to a B+ by virtue of being properly staffed and resourced for a few years.

    So on the whole, I'm not sure the magnet situation in OKCPS is a very equitable situation. It is certainly good for those lucky enough to attend, but for a district whose job is to serve EVERY student, I'm afriad the current situation misses that mark.

  6. #206

    Default Re: OKC Public Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    I'm not sure I'm thrilled with magnets. Charters show you what maybe could have been/could be, i.e., here are schools who don't get to discriminate, have to deal with whatever burdens are delivered to the classroom, and they do fine. Not just fine, but in some cases, they are nationally recognized for excellence.
    Is this a joke? Charter schools allow admission once a year. Once. Leaving aside their *strong* history of skirting laws around IEPs and pressuring special ed/low performing kids out the door (see EPIC), there is a more serious issue that itinerate students cannot attend a charter, by and large. Kids from the homeless shelter, kids in foster care, kids shunted between various relatives, etc. These kids can show up to their local elementary with no warning and be admitted at any time. Some only attend a certain school for a few weeks at a time (not a good setup for academic or behavioral success). These kids cannot and do not gain admission into charters.

    Until and unless charters open their doors to these hardest of hard cases there can be no claim that they should be compared in any meaningful way to OKCPS.

  7. #207

    Default Re: OKC Public Schools

    IDK of any school public school district that is completely satisfied with where they are today with education. Getting actively involved in your child's education should be the #1 priority of all parents with children in public schools.

    We can argue over Oklahoma's funding formula, whether each child has a textbook have always been issues. Good teachers in some content area can incorporate current events into their curriculum. Teachers today, have to be creative, know how to make adjustments; also have time to get themselves updated (just like you update your computer).

    Retaining the best Teachers etc. I attended Douglass High School, an unusual thing happened my senior year when the District integrated the teaching staff in 1969. Somehow, they took many of our good teachers at Douglass and replaced them with some of the poorest performing teachers in the District. Example: We had a World History Teacher (transferred in from who knows where) who ordered films and videos daily from the service center that didn't relate to subject area content--his classes were a joke. Apparently he was a tenured teacher (3 years to obtain tenure status) who a Principal would have to put on a "Plan of Improvement," assign to another master teacher, chart his progress (with a 3 teacher committee) and eventually recommend termination if the teacher didn't show improvement. Believe me, that's a long process; because if they are members in a teacher union, you have to deal with harassment allocations and so forth from the union. Believe me, it takes a toll on Administrators who have to exhibit tons documentation, paper work, progress meeting with the teacher on the plan that requires you to chart teacher deficiencies and progress; it's more subjective on the administrators plan.

    Sad thing, when I was a teacher I was on the negotiations team for AFT, as an Administrator, I was on the opposite end of the spectrum with the negotiations team for the District. You don't get any pleasure out of terminating a teacher; especially since you spend most of your efforts trying to help the teacher succeed while on the plan. Unfortunately there are some teachers you just can't help--S(he) have to be willing to make adjustments.

    The Colleges & Universities that most get their degrees from don't adequately prepare teachers for the profession. Most satisfy the student teacher content, teacher observation--some programs are dress up with the term Teacher Intern etc... More needs to be done in this area.

    There aren't any one size fits all instruction that can IMO adequately prepare teachers for dealing with student discipline. That's why teachers should attend as many in-service training and institutes as possible even if you have to pay out-of-pocket.

    Student discipline problems disrupt the holistic process of what the individual teacher is trying to achieve in the classroom. Since all students don't learn on the same level; you have to make adjustments--this involves creativity. When you have classrooms where the per pupil teacher ratio exceeds 25, it takes a toll on the teacher. Also, teachers shouldn't be allowed to pass their discipline problems off on another teacher.

    That's why it's important to reinforce good student behavior. Mail a note or call the parent, let them know when the child is doing good... this goes a long ways with establishing rapport with the parent. Teachers who claim they don't have time, you can invest the time in reinforcing good behavior or in dealing with disciplinary problems.

    More funding should be invested in teacher in-services & training which is an on-going process. That's why public school students should be ready once they begin school; especially when they move to the critical adolescent years. You've got to reach them in the Elementary school years for teaching/learning to be effective in the middle/jr. high school years when they are going thru so many changes. Let me rest on that note.

  8. #208

    Default Re: OKC Public Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorTaco View Post
    Is this a joke? Charter schools allow admission once a year. Once. Leaving aside their *strong* history of skirting laws around IEPs and pressuring special ed/low performing kids out the door (see EPIC), there is a more serious issue that itinerate students cannot attend a charter, by and large. Kids from the homeless shelter, kids in foster care, kids shunted between various relatives, etc. These kids can show up to their local elementary with no warning and be admitted at any time. Some only attend a certain school for a few weeks at a time (not a good setup for academic or behavioral success). These kids cannot and do not gain admission into charters.

    Until and unless charters open their doors to these hardest of hard cases there can be no claim that they should be compared in any meaningful way to OKCPS.
    You may have read some national publications about charters, but what you are describing, while anecdotally speaking, I've had run ins with Epic and their failure to provide services. But your assertions about our local charter schools are very misinformed. Your claim that itenerate students cannot attend a charter is misinformed. So much, that there is a Charter in OKC, Positive Tommorows which caters specifically to homeless students. They can't be the only one.

    My wife teaches at HCPS, and they have had several homeless students, even a student who rode the metro from Norman every single day to attend.

    They legally can't pressure low performing students out the door, and legally have to offer IEP services, but again, if a student is going to be looking at 6 years to graduate, that's a choice they're going to have to make. Work/lack of work has consequences, and those sorts of students should be looking at vocational training rather than a college-preparatory curriculum.

  9. #209

    Default Re: OKC Public Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by Midtowner View Post
    You may have read some national publications about charters, but what you are describing, while anecdotally speaking, I've had run ins with Epic and their failure to provide services. But your assertions about our local charter schools are very misinformed. Your claim that itenerate students cannot attend a charter is misinformed. So much, that there is a Charter in OKC, Positive Tommorows which caters specifically to homeless students. They can't be the only one.

    My wife teaches at HCPS, and they have had several homeless students, even a student who rode the metro from Norman every single day to attend.
    Thanks for this. I stand corrected.

  10. #210

    Default Re: OKC Public Schools

    Quote Originally Posted by DoctorTaco View Post
    Thanks for this. I stand corrected.
    I do get your concerns though--and there are some shady operators who do some shady things. Part of the money going to charters should be going to the State Auditor so that they can routinely conduct deep audits because there are most certainly shennanigans. You might recall the issue with the Dove schools a few years ago and their questionable use of state funds to buy and sell real estate. The ball got rolling on that thing and then, without explanation, the ball stopped rolling.

    Large districts like OKCPS can compete with charters while simultaneously forming sybiotic relationships, e.g., renting out unused facilities, realizing huge savings in their transportation budgets from students they don't have to transport and facility consolidation. Those are all good things, and thank God they have a decent superintendant who is imposing his will on the system to make these corrections.

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