Malaysian Airlines Flight 370

[Easy180]

If it was the pilot or pilots would they possibly have climbed so high to ensure all passengers were dead before they cruised around to their destination?

[SoonerDave]

If it was the pilot or pilots would they possibly have climbed so high to ensure all passengers were dead before they cruised around to their destination?

I think that's one of the many theories out there right now, horrific as it may be.

I can't even fathom the kind and magnitude of unbridled, unconscionable evil that would conceive of such a plan. I mean, yeah, I guess I can, but I can't. Or maybe I just don't want to.

[Just the facts]

If it was the pilot or pilots would they possibly have climbed so high to ensure all passengers were dead before they cruised around to their destination?

Kind of makes you rethink that whole 'secure the cockpit door' strategy doesn't it. We used to need to protect the pilots from the passengers, but how do we protect the passengers from the pilots?

[tomokc]

We have nothing to indicate that the flight crew intentionally did this, and much to show that the blame originates from the Malaysian government.

The Malaysian government has proven that it is incapable of performing a competent investigation, and that it has tarred Captain Shah as a supporter of the opposition leader it just jailed (which doesn't make a conspiracy). With reversals issued by the Malaysian aviation authorities every day, their incompetence has become abundantly clear, and they're not allowing investigators from other countries to participate in this investigation.

What do we know based upon the best available information? The plane appears to have flown to the point of fuel exhaustion along the southwestern of two possible arcs (the northwestern route puts it over too many heavily-monitored and -defended borders). It appears that no-one was at the controls, either one of the pilots or a passenger/cabin crewmember. And it appears that radios were not functioning. That's really all we have, and I can defend each of these arguments, and the presence of a very, very small area at the intersection of the three.

I caution everyone to be skeptical of those who present theories in order to sell books, gain Web site hits, see everything as a conspiracy or "false flag" event, defend incompetence or blame others.

[jn1780]

We have nothing to indicate that the flight crew intentionally did this, and much to show that the blame originates from the Malaysian government.

The Malaysian government has proven that it is incapable of performing a competent investigation, and that it has tarred Captain Shah as a supporter of the opposition leader it just jailed (which doesn't make a conspiracy). With reversals issued by the Malaysian aviation authorities every day, their incompetence has become abundantly clear, and they're not allowing investigators from other countries to participate in this investigation.

What do we know based upon the best available information? The plane appears to have flown to the point of fuel exhaustion along the southwestern of two possible arcs (the northwestern route puts it over too many heavily-monitored and -defended borders). It appears that no-one was at the controls, either one of the pilots or a passenger/cabin crewmember. And it appears that radios were not functioning. That's really all we have, and I can defend each of these arguments, and the presence of a very, very small area at the intersection of the three.

I caution everyone to be skeptical of those who present theories in order to sell books, gain Web site hits, see everything as a conspiracy or "false flag" event, defend incompetence or blame others.

That's true. Malaysian authorities can't be trusted. But, US officials have presented this "Theory" also and felt strongly enough about it to comment a navy ship to look in the Indian ocean. Its sounds to me like other nations pressuring Malaysian investigators to look deeper into other theories.

Also, someone would have had to turn the plane then turn autopilot on. If autopilot was on before hand the plane would have kept going towards its destination. Likewise, if it was never on the plane would have immediately crashed if the pilots loss consciousness. It is also possible though that all of the radar evidence is wrong.

I caution everyone to be skeptical of those who present theories in order to sell books, gain Web site hits, see everything as a conspiracy or "false flag" event, defend incompetence or blame others.

Isn't saying that Malaysian authorities are lying about the pilots turning off the transponders before their last communication and the plane following navigational waypoints a conspiracy theory? Just saying..... You could be right though. lol

[tomokc]

My primary theory is that a localized breach of some kind affected the hull on or near the flight deck, depressurizing the aircraft, disabling most of the avionics and causing the flight crew to fight for control of the aircraft (this explains the strong deviation from original course, and the climbs, descents and eventual leveling of the aircraft in the flight levels). Instead of immediately donning supplemental oxygen the captain & first officer first fought for control with no visual cues - it was a moonless night (it hadn't risen yet - I checked), they were over horizonless open water, and had either a partial panel of instruments or smoke in the cockpit. They were quickly unconscious (if not dead) and locked in the cockpit. If there was a fire it quickly went out (it consumed all available fuel, or was extinguished by a crewmember or automatic system).

Uninjured cabin crewmembers reached for their portable oxygen bottles, instructed passengers in use of their masks, and tried unsuccessfully to contact the pilots via interphone. Breaching the locked cockpit door was impossible. The cabin crewmembers succumbed to lack of oxygen as the supply in their bottles was exhausted after a few minutes, and passengers also succumbed when their chemical oxygen generators stop functioning. Passenger attempts to send text messages or emails were unsuccessful because they were over the Gulf of Thailand and beyond range of cell towers.

The aircraft is now not on autopilot, but maintaining a relatively constant course to the southwest (as tracked by Inmarsat) while gently oscillating up and down through the flight levels due to the basic aerodynamic stability of the B777 airframe and constant thrust of the engines (I'm told that the B777 airframe is very stable), until fuel was exhausted far over the Indian Ocean. Like the Learjet carrying golfer Payne Stewart that eventually crashed near Mina, SD, the B777 began its unpowered, oscillating descent into the ocean.

[tomokc]

Isn't saying that Malaysian authorities are lying about the pilots turning off the transponders before their last communication and the plane following navigational waypoints a conspiracy theory? Just saying..... You could be right though. lol

The Malaysians are saying that the transponder went off AFTER the last radio communication ("All right. Good night."). This was after the last received ACARS message, but before the next scheduled message to be automatically sent from the plane, placing the time that it went off at about the same time.

My theory has this happening after the last verbal communication from the crew.

[FritterGirl]

Interesting theory here that in simplest terms, makes pretty good sense. A Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet | Autopia | Wired.com

[SoonerDave]

Interesting theory here that in simplest terms, makes pretty good sense. A Startlingly Simple Theory About the Missing Malaysia Airlines Jet | Autopia | Wired.com

That's got to be the most rational theoretical exposition of the situation I've read so far. It won't sell a lot of newspapers, but man, it sure pegs the common sense meter. Fascinating read for its elegance and simplicity.

[Just the facts]

Its pretty neat to read theories from people who don't even have access to the information the incompetent Malaysian authorities have access to.

How does a fire and emergency response by the pilots explain this?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/wo...ight.html?_r=0

WASHINGTON — The first turn to the west that diverted the missing Malaysia Airlines plane from its planned flight path from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing was carried out through a computer system that was most likely programmed by someone in the plane’s cockpit who was knowledgeable about airplane systems, according to senior American officials.

Instead of manually operating the plane’s controls, whoever altered Flight 370’s path typed seven or eight keystrokes into a computer on a knee-high pedestal between the captain and the first officer, according to officials. The Flight Management System, as the computer is known, directs the plane from point to point specified in the flight plan submitted before a flight. It is not clear whether the plane’s path was reprogrammed before or after it took off.

[OKCTalker]

The Wired.com theory has four flaws:

1) There are heat sensors in the wheelwells, and they would have alerted the pilots before the fire reached the avionics bay and started tripping breakers.
2) When smoke is detected in the cockpit, pilots immediately don oxygen masks.
3) When a fire is detected anywhere, pilots immediately descend and land at the nearest available airport (they don't climb, hoping that "thin air" extinguishes the fire).
4) There was no report of a blown tire, nor tire debris located on the runway, disproving this entire theory. Otherwise, much of the article is informative.

To illustrate the danger of an onboard fire, and importance of getting on the ground quickly, here is the 324-page report of the 2010 UPS 747 freighter crash in Dubia, caused by a lithium battery fire. Four minutes after the first alarm, aircraft pitch control is compromised. At nine minutes the captain is incapacitated (the autopsy revealed that he lost consciousness due to toxic poisoning). At 28 minutes the aircraft crashed. The relevant portion begins on page 23: http://www.gcaa.gov.ae/en/ePublicati...013%202010.pdf

[stick47]

The Navy is turning back the USS Kidd. I think they know where the plane is and FYI, Thailand had a rogue plane on radar in their airspace at the right time that it could have been 370. The U-Turn was pre-programmed into the flight computer auto pilot. I believe the plane was hijacked by one of the flight crew and the ascension to 45K feet was done in order to depressurize the cabin & neutralize the passengers. I think the plane landed at a base in the middle East and the reason terrorists aren't boasting about pulling this off is b/c they aren't finished with their terrorist act. Pray for Israel and the US.

[SoonerDave]

As soon as I can re-snag the link I'll post it, but there was some stir earlier this evening over a photo find of an aircraft presumably flying over jungle-like terrain near an area where some farmers had reported seeing a low-flying aircraft near the time of the MH370 disappearance. Maybe nothing, maybe a complete red herring, maybe indication the plane was en route to a specific destination.

EDIT: This isn't the original link I found, but believe it to be the same base info: Hyderabad techie uploads satellite image of missing plane on CNN site - The Hindu

[Just the facts]

The Navy is turning back the USS Kidd. I think they know where the plane is and FYI, Thailand had a rogue plane on radar in their airspace at the right time that it could have been 370. The U-Turn was pre-programmed into the flight computer auto pilot. I believe the plane was hijacked by one of the flight crew and the ascension to 45K feet was done in order to depressurize the cabin & neutralize the passengers. I think the plane landed at a base in the middle East and the reason terrorists aren't boasting about pulling this off is b/c they aren't finished with their terrorist act. Pray for Israel and the US.

I think this is what happened also. Expect a new push to put some kind of navigation beacon and power source on aircraft that is not accessible and can't be turned off while the plane is in the air.

[Easy180]

The Navy is turning back the USS Kidd. I think they know where the plane is and FYI, Thailand had a rogue plane on radar in their airspace at the right time that it could have been 370. The U-Turn was pre-programmed into the flight computer auto pilot. I believe the plane was hijacked by one of the flight crew and the ascension to 45K feet was done in order to depressurize the cabin & neutralize the passengers. I think the plane landed at a base in the middle East and the reason terrorists aren't boasting about pulling this off is b/c they aren't finished with their terrorist act. Pray for Israel and the US.

This seems unlikely since the plane is almost the length of a football field. Thinking one of the neighboring countries would have picked it up when it came in to land.

[tomokc]

I believe the plane was hijacked by one of the flight crew and the ascension to 45K feet was done in order to depressurize the cabin & neutralize the passengers.

Pilots control pressurization settings from the cockpit. They can dump at any time, and anything above 12-14,000 would be effective. FAA regulations require that supplemental oxygen be available crew & passengers in that range.

I know pilot parents who have flown high in order to "knock out" their kids - it simply puts them to sleep. I have also heard of charter pilots doing this when unruly passengers won't behave in an instance like Justin Bieber's recent charter flight.

A climb to 45,000 feet (if true - the source is the Malaysian government) indicates that the aircraft was briefly out of control, that's all. No pilot would intentionally fly it there, and no rookie hijacker (think 9/11) would want to.

[tomokc]

As soon as I can re-snag the link I'll post it, but there was some stir earlier this evening over a photo find of an aircraft presumably flying over jungle-like terrain near an area where some farmers had reported seeing a low-flying aircraft near the time of the MH370 disappearance. Maybe nothing, maybe a complete red herring, maybe indication the plane was en route to a specific destination.

EDIT: This isn't the original link I found, but believe it to be the same base info: Hyderabad techie uploads satellite image of missing plane on CNN site - The Hindu

This is meaningless. If you want to see images of airplanes in flight, simply watch this YouTube video: Google Earth - Planes In Flight - YouTube

[tomokc]

As soon as I can re-snag the link I'll post it, but there was some stir earlier this evening over a photo find of an aircraft presumably flying over jungle-like terrain near an area where some farmers had reported seeing a low-flying aircraft near the time of the MH370 disappearance. Maybe nothing, maybe a complete red herring, maybe indication the plane was en route to a specific destination.

This was reported to have been over the southern tip of the Maldives, unfortunately beyond the range of MH370.

[SoonerDave]

This was reported to have been over the southern tip of the Maldives, unfortunately beyond the range of MH370.

Ahh, fair enough.

[stick47]

This was reported to have been over the southern tip of the Maldives, unfortunately beyond the range of MH370.

You're telling us that a Boeing 777 can't fly 2,000 miles? That would make their New York to London flights pretty interesting then. Actual range of a 777 200 is 5,200 miles.

[Jersey Boss]

You're telling us that a Boeing 777 can't fly 2,000 miles? That would make their New York to London flights pretty interesting then. Actual range of a 777 200 is 5,200 miles.

True' nuff. However it has already been reported that the plane had only sufficient fuel plus a little extra for error to get to Beijing. The tank was not full.

[tomokc]

Sightings of Missing Malaysian Airlines Jet over Maldives 'Not True' - NBC News

Investigators hunting for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 have discounted reports the plane may have been spotted over the Maldives, an official said Wednesday.

Malaysia's Acting Transport Minister Hishammuddin Hussein said the sightings had been investigated by police in the Maldives and were determined to be untrue.

And yes, I am quoting Malaysian authorities when it suits my purposes, and disparaging them when they don't!

[stick47]

True' nuff. However it has already been reported that the plane had only sufficient fuel plus a little extra for error to get to Beijing. The tank was not full.

Not sure about the tank not being full. NPR posted this graphic showing 634 airport runways that were in range of Flight 370.


Edit to add hyperlink: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...ssible-runways

[tomokc]

You're telling us that a Boeing 777 can't fly 2,000 miles? That would make their New York to London flights pretty interesting then. Actual range of a 777 200 is 5,200 miles.

MH370 was reported over the Maldives at 6:15 local time, 8:15 Malaysia time (point of origin). That's EIGHT HOURS in the air. The B777-200ER doesn't have that ENDURANCE.

[tomokc]

Not sure about the tank not being full. NPR posted this graphic showing 634 airport runways that were in range of Flight 370.


Edit to add hyperlink: Did The Malaysian Airliner Land? Here Are Possible Runways : The Two-Way : NPR

Don't just toss up a graphic and the source - provide context. Did they say that MH370 landed at one of them? Are the runways adequate for a B777 to land? How about take off? Do they have Jet-A?