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  1. #1

    Default MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Assuming I have my timelines right, the MAPS 3 tax started being collected on April 1, 2010, and will expire on December 31, 2018. Roughly speaking, we are about halfway through the collection period, but I think it would be a good idea to start roughing out some ideas to put forward for the MAPS 4 discussion starts on a wider level. Here is what I have been thinking so far:

    • Oklahoma River Velodome

      This is primarily based on the ideas being presented in this thread. The Oklahoma River is one of the crown jewels of the entire MAPS project, and I think we need to keep doubling down on the sports and athletic infrastructure being built there. This project could give us yet another world class facility.

    • Public Infrastructure for Fiber Internet Service

      Let's face it: we will not be getting Google Fiber any time soon, but why wait for Google? Nothing about their approach to building and running these networks is a secret. There may be opposition from the local internet providers, so the right approach here might be a public/private partnership with Cox or someone similar to cut that off at the head--plus that would give us someone to actually run the system.

    • Streetcar Phase 2

      This one is fairly obvious in my mind, the streetcar committee already has plans for future routes, all we need to do is come up with the cash to build them.


    So, any other ideas?

  2. #2

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    We've talked about doing something for neighborhoods and I've been thinking about that. The old neighborhoods have delightful old retail spaces like the Plaza, the Paseo and Capitol Hill that can serve as a community nidus. Thinking about those, I realized how poorly new neighborhoods are planned to allow a community gathering place. We can't build charming little retail areas with MAPS, but maybe we could create gathering places in existing parks - create community gardens with water and perhaps arbors with tables and chairs and a site for a small restaurant or snack bar adjacent. I'm just thinking about this so may have better ideas later.

  3. #3

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    I think more sidewalks, neighborhood parks, and beautification is a must. Each urban district should have its own theme with ornamental streetlights/stoplights, statues, public art, etc. People want to live in a visually attractive city and outside of a few places OKC has a very long way to go. I do like the idea of a Maps 4 Neighborhoods that incorporates these things.

  4. #4

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Here is a poll I started several months ago to give you a start to ideas:

    http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic...e-maps-iv.html

    I think city-wide transit would be the biggest thing. I'm talking about buses, sidewalks, bike lanes (not trails), streetcar and an RTA, but that would be a bigger/regional (duh) issue. Also, it has been brought up that redoing some of the parks in the neighborhoods would be high on that list. Something for everyone, everywhere. I don't think another MAPS will pass if they focus is on DT, although it wouldn't bother me at all.

    When I say buses, streetcar, RTA, etc, I mean the purchase of the actualy items, not O&M.

  5. #5

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    We should build a spaceship and be the first city with a presence on the moon.

  6. #6

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    I think street car expansion would be good, but I'd really to see some separate packages for stuff. Have a transportation package for light-rail and street car expansion. This could be valued over a billion dollars.

    Include MAPS4 at or around with 800 millions dollars worth of projects and an additional MAPS4Neighborhoods sub package at 500 million dollars which is general beautification, updating parks, new sidewalks and trails etc. A new GObond package will take of any streets that need widening to 4-6 lanes and added medians and such.

    Now if we just get a rail division established for the state, we could work on commuter and hsr, and get ODOT to take out loans on highway construction, we could really achieve a lot.

  7. #7

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    BTW, I say MAPS4 should have these following things

    • Oklahoma River Velodome
    • Miniature 200-300 ft. high artificial mountain along the river for mountain biking
    • highway beautification
    • oklahoma river beautification including the river further down and removing the ugly rocky edges
    • renovating the state fair adding a mono-rail system and renovating the space needle(making it 1,500ft. tall and adding the world first glass restaurant)
    • add a slow moving river tram service and pedestrian bridges over the river
    • lower brick town redevelopment project(redevelop entire lower brick town to new urbanist standards with removing the parking lots and turning them into multi-use mid rise)

  8. #8

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Transportation package should include

    • 500 million dollars for a street car expansion
    • 500 million dollars to start a light-rail(this could either run from the airport to rental car site(not yet built) to future convention center or start the adventure district line)

  9. Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    How about building an endowment fund for future ops and maintenance for what's been built so far.

    Community storm shelters strategically placed in high occupancy areas.

    Connecting commuter rail.

  10. #10

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Quote Originally Posted by warreng88 View Post
    Here is a poll I started several months ago to give you a start to ideas:

    http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic...e-maps-iv.html

    I think city-wide transit would be the biggest thing. I'm talking about buses, sidewalks, bike lanes (not trails), streetcar and an RTA, but that would be a bigger/regional (duh) issue. Also, it has been brought up that redoing some of the parks in the neighborhoods would be high on that list. Something for everyone, everywhere. I don't think another MAPS will pass if they focus is on DT, although it wouldn't bother me at all.

    When I say buses, streetcar, RTA, etc, I mean the purchase of the actualy items, not O&M.
    Whoops, when I was searching for a similar thread earlier I looked for MAPS 4 but didn't think to search for MAPS IV.

  11. #11

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    I would like to see a space needle constructed downtown added to the skyline rather than on the fairgrounds. Lets do it like Calgary, Canada.

  12. #12

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Quote Originally Posted by Bellaboo View Post
    How about building an endowment fund for future ops and maintenance for what's been built so far.

    Community storm shelters strategically placed in high occupancy areas.

    Connecting commuter rail.
    I say no to community storm shelters..... all new construction should have a storm shelter included, esp. schools, apartment complexes, and new homes.

  13. #13

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    I would like to see a space needle constructed downtown added to the skyline rather than on the fairgrounds. Lets do it like Calgary, Canada.
    I wouldn't... I think the fair grounds is the best person.

  14. #14

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    My MAPS4 would include:

    • $100 million dollar streetcar expansion. 23rd street, OUHSC, and Plaza
    • $250 million for NW expressway light rail. 23rd and Classen to NW Expressway, then NW Expressway to 63rd street.
    • $200 million for metro-wide sidewalk and walkability improvements
    • $20 million for bus stop improvements (~750k per route)
    • $80 million for commuter rail improvements (stops or rail infrastructure) inside OKC city limits.
    • $150 million in neighborhood specific improvements.


    $800,000,000

    Mine wouldn't pass because it's very focused on transit. In a ultra-conservative city I don't think an $800 million dollar transit focused tax would pass.

    But one can dream.

  15. #15

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Quote Originally Posted by catch22 View Post
    My MAPS4 would include:

    • $100 million dollar streetcar expansion. 23rd street, OUHSC, and Plaza
    • $250 million for NW expressway light rail. 23rd and Classen to NW Expressway, then NW Expressway to 63rd street.
    • $200 million for metro-wide sidewalk and walkability improvements
    • $20 million for bus stop improvements (~750k per route)
    • $80 million for commuter rail improvements (stops or rail infrastructure) inside OKC city limits.
    • $150 million in neighborhood specific improvements.


    $800,000,000

    Mine wouldn't pass because it's very focused on transit. In a ultra-conservative city I don't think an $800 million dollar transit focused tax would pass.

    But one can dream.
    I like this idea, except I would build the light rail from downtown towards Memorial/Edmond rather than NWX. I am totally with you on sidewalks, especially south of 23rd. What's amazing to me is that many historic OKC neighborhoods built even in days before the sub-urbanization of America, such as the neighborhoods just south of Shepherd Mall, do not have sidewalks. I haven't seen that in any other city. I definitely think its past due for OKC to have a reliable bus system. Mention this though and people will look bewildered and say "who in their right mind would ride the bus?"

    I don't think such a transit oriented Maps4 would pass though in OKC. I would scrap the steetcar expansion and the commuter rail improvement and replace it with something people in Deer Creek would support.

  16. #16

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Classen and NWX both have wide medians that can fit two tracks in. Memorial Rd is about 17 miles north of downtown, while 63rd is 6 miles. People in Edmond or N OKC. can take commuter rail into the city.

  17. #17

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Don't forget the "tornado wall"!

  18. #18

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    I like this idea, except I would build the light rail from downtown towards Memorial/Edmond rather than NWX. I am totally with you on sidewalks, especially south of 23rd. What's amazing to me is that many historic OKC neighborhoods built even in days before the sub-urbanization of America, such as the neighborhoods just south of Shepherd Mall, do not have sidewalks. I haven't seen that in any other city. I definitely think its past due for OKC to have a reliable bus system. Mention this though and people will look bewildered and say "who in their right mind would ride the bus?"

    I don't think such a transit oriented Maps4 would pass though in OKC. I would scrap the steetcar expansion and the commuter rail improvement and replace it with something people in Deer Creek would support.
    I don't like it because it neglects the Capitol Hill or southside area.

  19. #19

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Quote Originally Posted by ljbab728 View Post
    I don't like it because it neglects the Capitol Hill or southside area.
    I agree that Capitol Hill has a tremendous amount of potential, but does it need MAPS assistance other than maybe an extension of the streetcar there? I am also sure the neighborhood specific improvements could have some things for Capitol Hill.

  20. #20

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Transit and beautification. I would be thrilled with both. This city needs to look better.

  21. #21

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    I agree that Capitol Hill has a tremendous amount of potential, but does it need MAPS assistance other than maybe an extension of the streetcar there? I am also sure the neighborhood specific improvements could have some things for Capitol Hill.
    I'm referring specifically about transit and there was not mention at all about that for the south side.. A large part of Capitol Hill does have sidewalks but I'm sure many need repair and I suspect that parks could benefit, also.

  22. #22

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Uhhhhh....velodome? Sorry but I don't think that's an idea that is really going to get city wide traction.

  23. #23

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Quote Originally Posted by trousers View Post
    Uhhhhh....velodome? Sorry but I don't think that's an idea that is really going to get city wide traction.
    Would you have expected a rowing or kayaking venue on the river to gain city-wide traction?

  24. #24

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Quote Originally Posted by David View Post
    Would you have expected a rowing or kayaking venue on the river to gain city-wide traction?
    Nope I sure wouldn't have but I see this next MAPS vote being the most contentious one yet. I just don't think spending a large chunk of money on something like a velodome is where the next MAPS should go. I think that kind of project just reduces the chance of it being passed.
    You think that police, fire, high noon, etc have put up a fight so far? Hey everybody we're spending $XXX on a fancy bike track on the river.

  25. #25

    Default Re: MAPS 4 Brainstorming

    Quote Originally Posted by soonerguru View Post
    This city needs to look better.
    +10,000

    OKC is probably the ugliest city visually I have ever been in anywhere and I have been all over the US. Climate can't be used as an excuse. Dallas has a slightly better climate but its overall the same yet there is a night and day difference between the visual appeal of the average Dallas neighborhood and the average OKC neighborhood. Desert, blue collar cities like El Paso are more visually appealing than OKC. There are a few exceptions here of course. Parts of downtown are attractive as well as Auto Alley, the Plaza, and Classen Ten Penn. Of course the Paseo is a visually attractive neighborhood. A fast majority of the city though is just ugly. I don't think the issue can be solved by a MAPS though. I think some MAPS money could go towards various things to jump start neighborhood improvements but in the end the free market, better planning, and/or zoning is going to have to be the change.

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