Will Electronic Signs Cause Edmond to Resemble Las Vegas?

[Plutonic Panda]

And I'm OK with that. How is it that you seem to love Edmond, and the amazing progress and achievements, while disdaining the very folks who leadership, work, and vision has achieved that same progress?

I'm sure there are business on University that hate the removal of 2 lanes and the creation of the bike lanes. I'm sure it reduces traffic, makes parking harder, and effect business. Are the wants/interests of the business owners only valid on certain things, or should they dominate all things?

I'm very ok with requiring a variance. Keep the rules firm, and make someone justify an exception. Or maybe we should remove ALL zoning and permit requirements?

there wasn't any traffic on those lanes to begin with.

The variance thing is completely dumb. You just obviously have no clue how modern cities function and if you want Edmond to not have that competitive edge, then whatever.

[Plutonic Panda]

Council sends proposed sign ordinance to ballot » Local News » The Edmond Sun

[Just the facts]

One of the things I noticed in Paris was the near complete lack of any electric signs. The only ones allowed with any consistency were the green crosses at pharmacies.

[jerrywall]

One of the things I noticed in Paris was the near complete lack of any electric signs. The only ones allowed with any consistency were the green crosses at pharmacies.

Wow, and businesses want to locate in Paris? I thought they wouldn't go into a place without flashing electronic signs?

The fact that a business would choose not to locate in Edmond because of sign zoning laws is both absurd, and it ignores history. I love how I get constant personal attacks and poor attempts at civic from someone just for disagreeing. And considering I grew up active in Edmond city governments, and a son of a councilman through the 80's, (and a resident of over 30 years) I think I have plenty of knowledge in Edmond history and politics, as well as city structure.

I also think personal attacks are reflective on the person making them.

[Just the facts]

I am not sure if Jax recently started allowing these types of signs or not but I have noticed a lot of them springing up here and honestly, most of them are pretty crappy with the resolution and it makes the areas they are in look junky and low-rent. One thing to consider: even though each sign is only supposed to change ever 30 seconds or so when you put 4 or 5 of them right in a row the scene is constantly changing. The worst part is their use is contagious because businesses that don't need the sign feel they need to compete just to bring in customer (and the front door being 60 feet from the road doesn't help - and is the real issue that needs to be solved). For the life of me I don't know why a Lay-z-Boy store needs an electronic flashing sign other than the fact that the furniture store down the street put one in because apparently furniture shopping is now an impulse buy.

Flashing electronic signs are not an indictor of progress - they are an admission of defeat.

[jerrywall]

Another bit of history and personal experience. When the McDonald's at 33rd and Broadway was built, they got tons of variances, to allow neon and other such. Part of getting those variances was a commitment to maintain the signage and the neon. Fast forward 10-15 years, and 1/4 of the neon was burnt out, signage looked crappy, and the store was run down. Luckily the store was sold recently, and rebuilt, inside and out, and is no longer a blight on the area. But it shows a hard truth. It's easier to enforce zoning and building codes upfront, then enforce conditions once things are already built.

[cagoklahoma]

"Oh Gosh! I wish all these stores could inform me of their sales on an electronic message board as I drive by at 45 mph" - No One, Ever

Just because electronic message boards are good for everyone else, is not enough reason to say they are good enough for Edmond.

Just because everyone else jumped off the electronic message board bridge, doesn't mean you should too.

[Plutonic Panda]

One of the things I noticed in Paris was the near complete lack of any electric signs. The only ones allowed with any consistency were the green crosses at pharmacies.

Guess you didn't look hard enough.

https://www.google.com/search?q=elec...w=1280&bih=909

[Plutonic Panda]

Wow, and businesses want to locate in Paris? I thought they wouldn't go into a place without flashing electronic signs?

The fact that a business would choose not to locate in Edmond because of sign zoning laws is both absurd, and it ignores history. I love how I get constant personal attacks and poor attempts at civic from someone just for disagreeing. And considering I grew up active in Edmond city governments, and a son of a councilman through the 80's, (and a resident of over 30 years) I think I have plenty of knowledge in Edmond history and politics, as well as city structure.

I also think personal attacks are reflective on the person making them.

Dude, you have no clue what you're talking about. Shut the hell up about personal attacks. That is the only think you have to hold onto at this point in time because you can't make any other points.

I already apologized to you about that on FB and you ignored it and continue bitching about it on OKCTalk. Drop that garbage.

This has pissed me off so bad, I just called TWO people who have lived in Paris for over 15 years and they have both told me there are electronic signs all over the place, so JTF is wrong. The only reason you agreed with him is because it supported your viewpoint.

Like I said on FB, I will repeat this and after this I am done: RIGHT NOW, you have the freedom to place on these signs.

Here the facts:

The signs can only be placed on arterial roads(Broadway, 33rd, 15th, and one other street I believe).

They can only be so big and take so much of a portion of the entire sign

They can only change their image once every 30 seconds

-----------

These are among the strictest laws in the nation regarding electronic signs.

You are trying to take that right away. You have no logical arguments against them. The only things I have heard or seen is

it will cause Edmond to look like Las Vegas

"Oh Gosh! I wish all these stores could inform me of their sales on an electronic message board as I drive by at 45 mph" - No One, Ever

Oh, PP called me Smart Ass.... PERSONAL ATTACK!!!!!! blah blah

get over yourself.

We'll see if this bs ordinance is able to get repealed due to low-voter turnout as that is your only tactic because reason and logic does exist with these people. Lies, slander, scare tactics.... yeap, typical Edmond old slobs who just simply don't like something and think it should be banned for that very reason.

I also think it is funny you couldn't respond to my comment directly and had to wait for someone to say something so you could feel more confident in posting because you have someone to back you up. Good job man.

I actually felt bad because I did attack you on FB, but I take my apology back. It is apparently clear you have no logic, no reason, no competence, and base for your arguments. Only the hope that you will piss me off enough to where I will attack you on a personal level so you attempt to make an argument out of that.

I'm done posting about this issue, you can have the last. I am moving to L.A. this February and the 2%> of people that might vote on this issue can repeal it. The repeal will eventually be overturned and electronic signs will come Edmond even if this is overturned. You can't stop progress forever.

Have a good day and have continuing with your backwards thinking. I'm out!

[Plutonic Panda]

One more point here: you said they need to get a variance to justify it, I find that funny, just because you don't like something, someone should have to get a variance in essence having to show up to a council meeting to make a case in order to attempt to justify why they should be allowed by the gods like you to put an electronic sign in; even when they are conforming it to some of the strictest codes in the nation.

[jerrywall]

Frothing out the mouth, and no rational behavior. If you're really out, it's for the best. I quit responding to you, because you provide nothing of value to the discussion. I'm happy to continue this discussion with the adults.

[jerrywall]

Flashing electronic signs are not an indictor of progress - they are an admission of defeat.

Quote of the month. And we don't often agree on much.

[Plutonic Panda]

Frothing out the mouth, and no rational behavior. If you're really out, it's for the best. I quit responding to you, because you provide nothing of value to the discussion. I'm happy to continue this discussion with the adults.

Exactly what I thought. You have nothing left to hang onto.

[Plutonic Panda]

Flashing electronic signs are not an indictor of progress - they are an admission of defeat.

Yes, JTF, a sign that flashes once every 30 seconds. My oh my..... that sure is defeat.

Kerry, are you familiar with this law? You are a very reasonable person, but I don't think you have read the restrictions that these signs will have to conform to.

[Plutonic Panda]

To anyone who can make a case against this, I would sincerely appreciate an honest, rational opinion on this.

What exactly do you not like about these signs? The only people who I have seen oppose them are people like Jerry Wall and he can't even make a case besides saying they need to come to a vote of the people when we already elected people that voted on this. I don't mind having the people vote, what I mind is the tactic that is being used here. They are hoping on a low-voter turnout to have the majority of voters who do vote on this issue(less than two percent of the entire voter population in the city of Edmond) be against this so they overturn it.

The ordinance is very strict and outlines a set of rules you have to conform to.

They can only be allowed on these corridors:

These corridors are on Broadway, Second Street going east to Interstate 35, West Edmond Road and 33rd Street from Broadway to Boulevard.

They can only take up so much of sign

They can only change their image(or flash) once every 30 seconds

They are also limited on how bright they can be

So it would be really nice to have someone present a rational and reasonable discussion against these signs, but no one can.

It's the same garbage here. Then we have people like Jerry Wall take my statement of "It will cause the city to loose a competitive edge" which it will and turns my words into "no new cities will open up here because of not having electronic signs" from a statement made by JTF which turns out to be inaccurate.

So if I'm being unreasonable here, I'd really like to know; preferably from some of the more mature and respectable posters on this board

[jerrywall]

My case is I think they're distracting and ugly. There's also issue of light pollution, and the fact that I don't believe the signs would not be limited to the corridors, once you start allowing them in. Look for example the On Cue at 33rd and Broadway that argued "competitive edge" for an exemption, since they are close to OKC businesses. You think folks right next to the main corridor won't make the same arguments? I also believe, and have experienced, a signage arms race. The signs aren't as expensive as you seem to think, and in fact that's the problem. There are some pretty cheap ones that will start having burnt out leds and such pretty quickly.

I also have no problem with the vote, especially since it would take place during a regular principle election (not a special election) next april, and there is plenty of time for folks on all sides of that issue to campaign, communicate facts, etc, and the turnout seems to typically be higher than a special election. Did you sign the medical marijuana petition? Or should that issue also only be decided by elected officials.

And how is Edmond not competitive? It's amazing how we were able to get businesses, grow, be beautiful, and be competitive, without making the changes in the first place, yet now if we revert to the original ordinance, somehow we'll lose that competitive edge we've somehow managed to exist without. The sign ordinances banning the electronic signs has been in place since 1994, and I see no evidence of growth limitations in that time period.

I saw people making many of your same arguments in relation to the sign height ordinances, when they were put in place, and the expanded requirements for placement (back from the road) and vegetation ratios, etc, and now, years later, these policies and ordinances are universally considered major successes.

The funny thing is, I don't think you'd argue for NO restrictions on signage, would you? Assuming that's the case, we're both for sign restrictions and code requirements, we just disagree on the final definitions.

[jerrywall]

I also think good points are made here -

Meeting of ex-Mayors' minds

[Plutonic Panda]

Jerry, I'm not ignoring you... I'll post a few things a little later. I'm very tired and in dire need of some rest right now.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'm still going to address those points

Here is the report from Edmond Exchange

Electronic signs vote is set for April 7

Council members passed this week a resolution for an April 7 election on an initiative petition to ban electronic signs in Edmond.

Petitions contained 1,109 signatures when turned in at city hall on May 19 by former Mayors Saundra Naifeh, Dan O’Neil and Randal Shadid.

City staff found 973 valid signatures during the verification process. Those opposing the electronic signs needed 644 valid signatures for the city to call an election. They collected 339 more than that.

“Let’s have it,” Naifeh said, waving her arms from her seat in the audience.

- Edmond Exchange for July 17 | News OK

[Edgar]

Doesn't Edmond know annoying electronic signs will make them big league.

[Mel]

I miss the days when I could take my old telescope out in my backyard and do some stargazing. Light pollution means different things to different people. Edmond can do what ever it wants, I just hope it doesn't cause anyone young or old a petite or grand mal seizure.

[Just the facts]

Yes, JTF, a sign that flashes once every 30 seconds. My oh my..... that sure is defeat.

Kerry, are you familiar with this law? You are a very reasonable person, but I don't think you have read the restrictions that these signs will have to conform to.

It is a sign of defeat because planning and engineering decisions in Edmond have resulted in commerce being harder to conduct. The electronic signs amount to nothing more than a 'work around' to all the failed decision.

[Filthy]

If a company feels the need to have digital signage to have a competitive edge...than they've already lost the battle. I personally signed the petition, because I feel as if having digital signage everywhere looks like trash. No, I don't think it would turn Edmond into Las Vegas...but, it would go a long way into closely resembling 39th street, or 23rd street, or whatever other ghettoville avenue you want to use for comparison.

[Mel]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOoKzw3JSCM

[Of Sound Mind]

If a company feels the need to have digital signage to have a competitive edge...than they've already lost the battle. I personally signed the petition, because I feel as if having digital signage everywhere looks like trash. No, I don't think it would turn Edmond into Las Vegas...but, it would go a long way into closely resembling 39th street, or 23rd street, or whatever other ghettoville avenue you want to use for comparison.

Dumbest thing I've heard on this forum in a long time....