Producers Coop

[hoya]

I'm talking about the real story about upper canal, not just the lower. And, how did Mr. Hogan really get the deal done. Why is there no pressure to fully develop the parking lots along lower. Mr. Hogan is an obvious target, but can't do these things alone.

I know Randy Hogan was competing against Moshe Tal. You can thank God every day that Hogan got it instead,

[AlvarezK]

No

[AlvarezK]

I know Randy Hogan was competing against Moshe Tal. You can thank God every day that Hogan got it instead,

Are you delusional what Bricktown is is suburbia. Oklahoma city should stand for more then that but no instead of urbanizing combining it with Oklahoma city's culture to create elaborate developments we end up with big boxy buildings and empty parking lots.I'm happy for Tulsa they're a smaller city smaller city (population wise) and still manages to be more dense have better retail as well as attractions such as the BOK center and that award winning park and have first class hotels. I recommend you go look at some of Tal's partners at the time and you will stumble upon the name David Cordish a credible developer with masterpiece developments such as the lighthouse district.Tal may have had personal interest when it came to the development but mind it was way better then a Toby kieth restaurant,empty parking lots, boxy buildings and best of all in a metropolitan area that has a population of above 600k a bass pro shop.

[jonny d]

are you delusional what bricktown is is suburbia. Oklahoma city should stand for more then that but no instead of urbanizing combining it with oklahoma city's culture to create elaborate developments we end up with big boxy buildings and empty parking lots.i'm happy for tulsa they're a smaller city smaller city (population wise) and still manages to be more dense have better retail as well as attractions such as the bok center and that award winning park and have first class hotels. I recommend you go look at some of tal's partners at the time and you will stumble upon the name david cordish a credible developer with masterpiece developments such as the lighthouse district.tal may have had personal interest when it came to the development but mind it was way better then a toby kieth restaurant,empty parking lots, boxy buildings and best of all in a metropolitan area that has a population of above 600k a bass pro shop.

ok...

[Rover]

These are the already known stories. What I suggested is that the Gazette do a REAL investigative piece such as we criticize the Oklahoman for not doing. What’s the story behind the stories. Who did the dirty deeds to let Hogan get his way. How come after all these years the upper part STILL hasn’t really developed? Who is the roadblock and why? What can we do?

[yukong]

I have been told that the developers have walked away from this project due to environmental concerns and clean-up costs. It is my understanding that the current owners are trying to get into the DEQ Brownfields program to try and get the property cleaned up so they can hopefully sell at some point. There are a lot of unknowns about the levels of contamination and no full environmental site assessment has been conducted at this point. And even then, phase 1 and phase 2 assessments might not identify all the problems. That whole area was at one time part of the OKC oil fields shortly after the turn of the 20th century. Experience has shown that historical records from that period are not reliable. Ask Gary Brooks about that when he was developing the Steel Yards. All the undocumented hidden environmental surprises he encountered as that development progressed. There is a fair amount of contamination on the Co-Op site. Such that there is a chance it will never be viable for residential development.

[Pete]

Thanks very much for the details, although the news is disappointing.

I believe this means that any MAPS4 soccer stadium will now have to focus on the Strawberry Fields area to the west of Scissortail Park. That is *very* expensive land, so I'm not sure how that would work.

[Laramie]

I have been told that the developers have walked away from this project due to environmental concerns and clean-up costs. It is my understanding that the current owners are trying to get into the DEQ Brownfields program to try and get the property cleaned up so they can hopefully sell at some point. There are a lot of unknowns about the levels of contamination and no full environmental site assessment has been conducted at this point. And even then, phase 1 and phase 2 assessments might not identify all the problems. That whole area was at one time part of the OKC oil fields shortly after the turn of the 20th century. Experience has shown that historical records from that period are not reliable. Ask Gary Brooks about that when he was developing the Steel Yards. All the undocumented hidden environmental surprises he encountered as that development progressed. There is a fair amount of contamination on the Co-Op site. Such that there is a chance it will never be viable for residential development.

Thanks for the info yukong; this is why this land will never be worth $3 million an acre... They cosmetically cleaned the surface like putting pancake over a face that has severe cancerous acne.

[David]

I wonder if this increases or decreases the odds of this eventually being a big out of place suburban style shopping strip. Higher land cost makes me think less, but I am not sure about that.

[yukong]

Laramie...that is a great analogy. The site has a lot of issues. And we know there is contamination. Just not how bad. And that is the problem. It could be bad. The asking price is such that no one is willing to gamble on it. The asking price is high, even for land with no environmental issues. So, it is to big a gamble for anyone to buy "as is." And if you remove the possibility of residential from the development, that greatly decreases the options. Now two big developers have attempted to buy it, and both have ultimately walked away. Funk's group was the first. They recognized the pitfalls. Now this second group has walked. It may be a while before we see anything go in there. Sad situation. As it stands, I somewhat wish the big silos and structures were still there. Oh well.

[yukong]

The last group had planned on a big shopping, big box development on the land...with a residential component. I saw the original conceptual plans. It would have been decent. But now...who knows. I honestly think they are afraid to start sinking test wells and digging for soil samples.

[jn1780]

Maybe just pave over everything and make it a mega parking lot since there are a lot of people who love parking lots.

[Laramie]

Maybe just pave over everything and make it a mega parking lot since there are a lot of people who love parking lots.

I know you're being sarcastic--good humor, brought a chuckle to begin my day.

We all want to see more development with new and existing firms expanding and renovating their properties. Nice new towers and buildings that fill up those empty lots in the core.

You don't want to underestimate the 'value' of parking until you have to venture downtown and can't find a decent place to park. There's a drafty looking garage (good scene for being mugged) south of St. Joseph's Old Cathedral where I wouldn't use the restroom (park my buns) let alone park a vehicle.

Parking garages are just what they are; don't get me wrong, it would be nice if all garages could have nice store-fronts and retail strip development that doesn't look like your typical bland open spore garages. It would be nice if the garages are dressed up like your regular buildings.

[Ross MacLochness]

^^did you just get back from cannacon?

[Laramie]

^^did you just get back from cannacon?

I wish, my lungs were damaged from second-hand cigarette & cigar smoke. Non smoker all my life--but you reap the adverse devastation from the habits of the company you keep.

Too bad they weren't allowed to give out samples; they would still be evacuating people from the expo.

[Laramie]

Three large, "transformative" projects, still in planning, nonetheless made progress the first half of the year.

Oklahoman, Business section, July 27, 2019

Transformation

Chisholm Creek's next phase south of Memorial between Pennsylvania and Western, will include two large, mixed-use buildings with ground-floor retail, office above, a courtyard, hotel, and dinner-and-a movie concept, according to renderings released by the developers.

Penn Central — recently renamed "Oak” — the "ambitious" high-end retailoffice-residential project at Pennsylvania and Northwest Expressway got Planning Commission approval.

The Cotton Mill project marketed by Sooner Development, just southeast of downtown, is waiting to see if a soccer/multiuse stadium will be included in MAPS 4; it could anchor the retail-entertainment project.

"None of these projects have broken ground," Price Edwards said, but all "would take Oklahoma City retail to a new level."

[Pete]

Chisholm Creek: "according to renderings released by the developers", should read "as reported by OKCTalk in May".

[Plutonic Panda]

Chisholm Creek: "according to renderings released by the developers", should read "as reported by OKCTalk in May".

Penn Central should be the same.

[Pete]

[Southsider2]

http://www.producersdistrict.com/

There's an animation from Skyline Inc on here that I've never seen before. It looks much like the aquarium and soccer stadium videos that Pete has posted on youtube but this one shows what a development without the aquarium or soccer stadium would look like.

[Pete]

[Lazio85]

It looks like this could be the next Belle Isle Station and Walmart shopping center.

[Pete]

^

I believe that video (and first image I captured from it) is old. It shows a canal extension and none of the buildings depicted match the site plans in the marketing materials.

I'll find out more, but I believe this was the general layout proposed before the aquarium and soccer stadium came into the picture, and now they've gone back to pretty much the original plan, which I understood to look much like what is shown on the site plans.

I'll know more soon.

[Southsider2]

^

I believe that video (and first image I captured from it) is old. It shows a canal extension and none of the buildings depicted match the site plans in the marketing materials.

I'll find out more, but I believe this was the general layout proposed before the aquarium and soccer stadium came into the picture, and now they've gone back to pretty much the original plan, which I understood to look much like what is shown on the site plans.

I'll know more soon.

Gotcha makes sense. Is the canal extension off the table?

[GoGators]

Those site plans are just terrible. What a nightmare.