Ed Shadid Launches Formal Attack on MAPS 3 Conv Center in tandem with Mayoral Bid

[Edgar]

Actually, the one thing Ed wants that would hamstring the city financially forever is a new bus system. Want to know the annual estimated O&M for a system as outlined in the Fixed Guideways? $60 million per annum. That makes a hotel look cheap. But he's not going to get that new bus system regardless, unless the knowledge and common sense fairy finally smacks him on the head with her wand. He'll have to ask the taxpayers for money for anything he wants. How will they react when he can't keep his word. He's lied about a lot more than MAPS.

public trasnport a core function of city government, a shiny new cc on the other hand. Tulsa manages, are they more big league?

[mkjeeves]

Ed's statement on the flyer:

Maps 3 should be delivered as it was promised to voters

My memory is sketchy. Was it promised to voters the city would need to subsidize a hotel?

I'm not saying we shouldn't build the CC and the hotel. I voted for the CC. I might vote for it again when the time comes around. But I do have a hypothetical question, is there any point along the trajectory of a public project that is going off the rails where it would be appropriate to inform the voters and check in with them again, or should a city just say "they voted for this" and run it off into the ditch?

The consensus here seems to be no, they should run it off into the ditch no matter what. The citizens voted for it.

Maybe we should eliminate the petition process too. It's so inconvenient.

[mkjeeves]

Ed's statement on the flyer:

"Maps 3 should be delivered as it was promised to voters"

My memory is sketchy. Was it promised to voters the city would need to subsidize a hotel?

I'm not saying we shouldn't build the CC and the hotel. I voted for the CC. I might vote for it again when the time comes around. But I do have a hypothetical question, is there any point along the trajectory of a public project that is going off the rails where it would be appropriate to inform the voters and check in with them again, or should a city just say "they voted for this" and run it off into the ditch?

The consensus here seems to be no, they should run it off into the ditch no matter what. The citizens voted for it.

Maybe we should eliminate the petition process too. It's so inconvenient.

crickets

[Steve]

Quote Originally Posted by mkjeeves View Post
Ed's statement on the flyer:

"Maps 3 should be delivered as it was promised to voters"

My memory is sketchy. Was it promised to voters the city would need to subsidize a hotel?

I'm not saying we shouldn't build the CC and the hotel. I voted for the CC. I might vote for it again when the time comes around. But I do have a hypothetical question, is there any point along the trajectory of a public project that is going off the rails where it would be appropriate to inform the voters and check in with them again, or should a city just say "they voted for this" and run it off into the ditch?

The consensus here seems to be no, they should run it off into the ditch no matter what. The citizens voted for it.

Maybe we should eliminate the petition process too. It's so inconvenient.

----------------

MK, the matter was not discussed one way or another because no such proposal for public financing of a conference hotel existed. The proposal still doesn't exist. The city has, and continues to, receive and consider projects for Tax Increment Financing and CDBG. This method was used with the Skirvin and Renaissance, and was recently approved by the full city council for the proposed C21 Museum Hotel.

[mkjeeves]

MK, the matter was not discussed one way or another because no such proposal for public financing of a conference hotel existed. The proposal still doesn't exist. The city has, and continues to, receive and consider projects for Tax Increment Financing and CDBG. This method was used with the Skirvin and Renaissance, and was recently approved by the full city council for the proposed C21 Museum Hotel.

That's what I remember. Being sold that MAPS financing would provide a viable Convention Center, which in turn would provide Conventions. We were not promised that voting for a Convention Center would bring Conventions viably if we also used taxpayer money *from somewhere* on B, C, D or whatever else to make it viable.

With what we know now, it's very unlikely we are going to get what was promised.

And the second question I asked...still crickets.

[Steve]

That's what I remember. Being sold that MAPS financing would provide a viable Convention Center, which in turn would provide Conventions. We were not promised that voting for a Convention Center would bring Conventions viably if we also used taxpayer money *from somewhere* on B, C, D or whatever else to make it viable.

With what we know now, it's very unlikely we are going to get what was promised.

And the second question I asked...still crickets.

The second question is not for me to answer - though it seems a valid query for others on this site. I guess to answer that, the question is who gets to decide if a project is off the tracks?

[Plutonic Panda]

crickets

It was promised to the voters that a convention center is to be built and that is happening. Ed Shadid is trying to derail the convention center. Has any money been used from MAPS3 to subsidize a hotel or are they proposing to do that? No.

They can vote on a completely separate way to fund the hotel and phase two, and I would support it. Ed Shadid is the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen and he clearly wants to alter MAPS3 to his way and deceive the voters.

[Steve]

Edgar, are you Steve Hunt?

[Bellaboo]

Edgar, are you Steve Hunt?

He always talks about Steve Hunt without using Steve Hunts name.........I wonder now....

[Plutonic Panda]

He always talks about Steve Hunt without using Steve Hunts name.........I wonder now....

Who is Steve Hunt in a nutshell? I really don't know... I'll likely look him later anyways.

[Bellaboo]

Who is Steve Hunt in a nutshell? I really don't know... I'll likely look him later anyways.

Taco Bell employee who ran against Mick Cornett in last election.

[hoya]

Taco Bell employee who ran against Mick Cornett in last election.

Oh that guy. I remember him now.

[Edgar]

Edgar, are you Steve Hunt?

no but I do occasionally dine at taco bell. Cornett barely beat the guy. Good news for Shadid?

[Steve]

no but I do occasionally dine at taco bell. Cornett barely beat the guy. Good news for Shadid?

I'm going to still assume you are still Steve Hunt unless you say who you are. Your approach to online discussions, politics, etc., is too similar to Hunt's to believe otherwise. For what it's worth, this isn't necessarily an insult. Hunt is definitely not stupid. Anyway, say who you are, or I will assume you are the latest incarnation of Genghis Duck, Au Reviour Giraffe, and other online names.

[soonerguru]

I'm confused. What does Mayor Humphries have to do with anything germane to this discussion? Mayor Humphries is not running for office, Cornett is, and in my opinion, Cornett is a far better mayor (no disrespect to Mr. Humphries). Also, it is fantasy to suggest the mayor of OKC gets his marching orders from the Chamber. Anyone who suggests this is not familiar with either how the mayor makes decisions, whom he consults, or how the Chamber operates.

And what is the alternative? Let's assume for a minute that the Chamber of Commerce of a large American city and a sitting mayor were constantly at war with each other. Would that be a good way to run a city? Is it not a good idea for the mayor of a large American city to consult with the major employers in his city when making key decisions?

[Edgar]

I'm confused. What does Mayor Humphries have to do with anything germane to this discussion? Mayor Humphries is not running for office, Cornett is, and in my opinion, Cornett is a far better mayor (no disrespect to Mr. Humphries). Also, it is fantasy to suggest the mayor of OKC gets his marching orders from the Chamber. Anyone who suggests this is not familiar with either how the mayor makes decisions, whom he consults, or how the Chamber operates.

And what is the alternative? Let's assume for a minute that the Chamber of Commerce of a large American city and a sitting mayor were constantly at war with each other. Would that be a good way to run a city? Is it not a good idea for the mayor of a large American city to consult with the major employers in his city when making key decisions?

former mayors Norrick and Humphreys spoke in support of the cc saying not to go ahead in spite of the hoodwink would damage the MAPS brand, as if the MAPSIII bait&switch hadn't already sullied it.

[soonerguru]

former mayors Norrick and Humphreys spoke in support of the cc saying not to go ahead in spite of the hoodwink would damage the MAPS brand, as if the MAPSIII bait&switch hadn't already sullied it.

And why do you dodge all of the other questions? Do you think it's a good idea for the mayor of a large American city to declare war on his own business community leaders, and decry the organization that represents the largest block of local, independently owned small businesses? You think that's a swell idea?

[Edgar]

And why do you dodge all of the other questions? Do you think it's a good idea for the mayor of a large American city to declare war on his own business community leaders, and decry the organization that represents the largest block of local, independently owned small businesses? You think that's a swell idea?

Rather disengenuous to discribe the chamber as a humble rep of a collection of small businesses. Whatever the organization once may have been, it's now a powerful right wing national lobbying outfit advocating tax breaks and economic concessions from communities. 766 proves they don't have the general commonwealth at heart. No doubt they'd like a shiny new cc and the increaseed traffic they say will happen, debatable based on the experience of many other citites with new cc's. They'll profit and not be on the hook for annual operating deficits.

[soonerguru]

Rather disengenuous to discribe the chamber as a humble rep of a collection of small businesses. Whatever the organization once may have been, it's now a powerful right wing national lobbying outfit advocating tax breaks and economic concessions from communities. 766 proves they don't have the general commonwealth at heart. No doubt they'd like a shiny new cc and the increaseed traffic they say will happen, debatable based on the experience of many other citites with new cc's. They'll profit and not be on the hook for annual operating deficits.

You're confusing the US Chamber of Commerce with the OKC Chamber of Commerce. The US Chamber is indeed a right-wing lobby.

I know very well who comprises the chamber membership; i volunteered with the Chamber for several years and also attended many of their expo events. Due to your ignorance, I doubt you have any working knowledge of what the OKC Chamber does. Have you even thumbed through the Chamber directory? The OKC Chamber has nearly 5,000 business members. Are you suggesting that OKC has 5,000 plutocratic corporations headquartered here?

You may also be surprised that many nonprofit organizations are OKC Chamber members. Instead of spouting Edbot garbage, do a little research. If you would do that you wouldn't come across as such an idiot to so many people.

[kevinpate]

I get what you are noting betts. At the same time, the day a chamber of commerce doesn't have a pro business slant, given its membership, they probably ought to reorganize under a different banner.

[Steve]

It doesn't, other than Edgar (Steve Hunt?) put out blatantly false information that I couldn't stay quiet on.

[Edgar]

It doesn't, other than Edgar (Steve Hunt?) put out blatantly false information that I couldn't stay quiet on.

I'm Edgar. Never met Hunt. Heard him call into Traber's show back when Jim was making an arse of himself over Collison's tweet about the weather in Seattle in the summertime. Traber hung up on him before he could speak of course.
Not making up what I said about KH. Have nothing against the guy. Sent him a letter once when first heard rumblings about razing the SFS, and he had the decency to respond in his own hand. For what it's worth, the deed didn't happen on his watch. Sorry, but you're the mistaken one when it comes to KH's opinion on razing the Gold dome for a Walgreens, and preserving the Walnut Ave Bridge. Perhaps you were sharing Shadid's pipe back then.

[Steve]

I'm Edgar. Never met Hunt. Heard him call into Traber's show back when Jim was making an arse of himself over Collison's tweet about the weather in Seattle in the summertime. Traber hung up on him before he could speak of course.
Not making up what I said about KH. Have nothing against the guy. Sent him a letter once when first heard rumblings about razing the SFS, and he had the decency to respond in his own hand. For what it's worth, the deed didn't happen on his watch. Sorry, but you're the mistaken one when it comes to KH's opinion on razing the Gold dome for a Walgreens, and preserving the Walnut Ave Bridge. Perhaps you were sharing Shadid's pipe back then.

Moderators, please note that Edgar (whoever he is) is insinuating I've used illegal narcotics.

[Edgar]

Moderators, please note that Edgar (whoever he is) is insinuating I've used illegal narcotics.

Can I still go outside and play Steve?you've frequently insinuated I'm a liar.

[Steve]

Can I still go outside and play Steve?you've frequently insinuated I'm a liar.

And yes, by all means, go outside and play. There are many wonderful outdoor swimming pools in our city.