Guyutes

[pickles]

It's a street backing a commercial corridor. Not quite sure what you'd want that to entail... Like it or not, Mesta Park is urban and we should expect, and encourage, urban amenities.

Exactly.

[Plutonic Panda]

1. Noise from the patio speakers carrying into the neighborhood.
a. 55 decibels (until 10 pm) and 50 decibels (after 10 pm) are rather loud
when you consider that normal indoor conversation is ~50-55 decibels.
Yes, “normal conversation” is not loud by itself, but it is relatively loud
when one imagines trying to sleep yet noise as loud as a normal
conversation could be occurring outside their bedroom window. We
understand that the upstairs patio will mostly be covered other than to
the north, but we imagine the sound can carry backward. We have
experience with sound travelling far and disrupting people trying to
sleep: the mill between 2nd and 4th on Western often wakes up
residents in the south half of Mesta Park (1.5 miles away) and the
decibel level at their homes is 40-50. One of those residents
measured a gas powered leaf blower’s decibel level from inside their
home at 50 decibels.

This is can kind of understand, but a fence and the right plants will do wonders to solve this. You are living in a big city, there will be noise.

2. Noise from people walking to their cars parked in the neighborhood.
a. This concern is not for customers departing from dinner. Rather, it is
for the late night crowd that might have a more vocal jaunt to their
vehicle and perhaps spend some time chatting, talking on the phone,
arguing with a significant other, etc in a front yard before departing with
the radio turned up and windows down. We are concerned that this
would be a common chorus during the late night exoduses.

Seriously!? People talking????? Arguments can happen anywhere, what a dumb point. Yes, there might be kids walking around talking loud, but come on.... that is part of life. If they are screaming and or causing any major disturbance, call the cops.

3. Patrons cars blocking full access to driveways
a. Achieved by cars being parked across the street and also on each side
of the driveway. Or also achieved by cars parking across the
driveway—this actually happens often on Shartel near the Heritage
Museum.

Yes, that might happen, but again, call the police. If they are blocking your easement, help the city out with their revenue stream.

4. Street parking residents being displaced by 23rd Street patrons
a. Street parking by residents is not abundant on the 22nd Street blocks
around Shartel. This concern is for for full 23rd Street development.
We don’t anticipate this being an issue with your development alone,
but it will be a problem when 23rd Street is fully developed

So what you're getting at is you guys don't want the place to be developed? You want a deserted corridor so your residents can park on public street parking. Parking that is and should be available to anyone... gotcha.

[Paseofreak]

Why is it an issue here when all is well around Western Avenue, Paseo, Midtown, Deep Deuce?

[Buffalo Bill]

It's a street backing a commercial corridor. Not quite sure what you'd want that to entail... Like it or not, Mesta Park is urban and we should expect, and encourage, urban amenities.

Like rooftop bars 60' away from a bedroom window? Until 2 AM? I'm not saying that there should be an expectation of some sort of suburban nirvana, but to me the rooftop issue is a non-negotiable item. It will be what kills this proposal.

[Plutonic Panda]

Why is it an issue here when all is well around Western Avenue, Paseo, Midtown, Deep Deuce?

Because man, no new development! No new people! No new noise! No new traffic! NO NEW ANYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dankrutka]

Like rooftop bars 60' away from a bedroom window? Until 2 AM? I'm not saying that there should be an expectation of some sort of suburban nirvana, but to me the rooftop issue is a non-negotiable item. It will be what kills this proposal.

You realize people all over the country and world live in mixed use developments with open bar/patio areas that stay open until 2am or later, right? This isn't something new and should be expected in the urban core, particularly near major corridors like 23rd street.

[AP]

You realize people all over the country and world live in mixed use developments with open bar/patio areas that stay open until 2am or later, right? This isn't something new and should be expected in the urban core, particularly near major corridors like 23rd street.

I just don't understand why anyone would even live in the center of the city and expect anything other than this.

[Pete]

The big problem in this area is that for decades most the commercial buildings have been vacant or extremely under utilized.

Most the people that moved into those neighborhoods are accustomed to and expect dead quiet, even on the commercial corridors like 23rd.

So, anything going in other than luxury homes or high-end retail is going to be considered a detraction.


I've made this point before but homeowners in HH/MP don't want to deal with increased activity, put your home up for sale. Prices have appreciated rapidly due to all the new development and there is a long list of people who would be happy to buy, even with a bar right across the alley.

[Mr. Cotter]

While I don't live in MP or HH, a quickly recovering 23rd street was a factor when I purchased a home in the core last year.

[Plutonic Panda]

You realize people all over the country and world live in mixed use developments with open bar/patio areas that stay open until 2am or later, right? This isn't something new and should be expected in the urban core, particularly near major corridors like 23rd street.

+1

[Plutonic Panda]

I just don't understand why anyone would even live in the center of the city and expect anything other than this.

Because these people have rights to property they don't own!!!! Where have you been man! /sarc

[Plutonic Panda]

The big problem in this area is that for decades most the commercial buildings have been vacant or extremely under utilized.

Most the people that moved into those neighborhoods are accustomed to and expect dead quiet, even on the commercial corridors like 23rd.

So, anything going in other than luxury homes or high-end retail is going to be considered a detraction.


I've made this point before but homeowners in HH/MP don't want to deal with increased activity, put your home up for sale. Prices have appreciated rapidly due to all the new development and there is a long list of people who would be happy to buy, even with a bar right across the alley.

That's what I was thinking, wouldn't home values increase? I heard about a lady that was protesting the Rise and she was worried her home values would drop because of the development and someone asked her what her home value was and she discovered it increased as a direct result of all the new development.

[catch22]

NIMBYs!

Don't live in the absolute center (2 miles away from the epicenter of a 700 sq mile city) of a city if you don't want noise.

Simple as that. Go live on SW 164th and Western. Lots of big homes, and no one on the street beyond 9pm or prior to 7am.

[dankrutka]

Shame about the fatalities though.

Yes. I just realized one of the fatalities was my former student at Westmoore High School. From everything I remember from him and sponsoring Asian-American Society, he was a good kid. The three identified people were all Westmoore graduates. Very sad.

[PhiAlpha]

Guyutes goes before the planning commission tomorrow at 1:30. If there are any supporters out there, Guyutes would love for you to come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Id be up for that. Where people have to go?


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[dankrutka]

Id be up for that. Where people have to go?

You missed it. It was at 1:30pm today and it doesn't sound like they received support, just resistance, right?

[Plutonic Panda]

You missed it. It was at 1:30pm today and it doesn't sound like they received support, just resistance, right?

Damn!!!!! I would've have so been there as I was downtown then. Crap.... makes me so mad. I need to find about these things ahead of time.

[PhiAlpha]

This is can kind of understand, but a fence and the right plants will do wonders to solve this. You are living in a big city, there will be noise.



Seriously!? People talking????? Arguments can happen anywhere, what a dumb point. Yes, there might be kids walking around talking loud, but come on.... that is part of life. If they are screaming and or causing any major disturbance, call the cops.



Yes, that might happen, but again, call the police. If they are blocking your easement, help the city out with their revenue stream.



So what you're getting at is you guys don't want the place to be developed? You want a deserted corridor so your residents can park on public street parking. Parking that is and should be available to anyone... gotcha.

To be certain, not all of us are with these idiots protesting this. I've spared with several of them on the mesta park neighborhood web group. Lots of really dumb people in this neighborhood.


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[PhiAlpha]

You missed it. It was at 1:30pm today and it doesn't sound like they received support, just resistance, right?

In Houston so I couldn't have gone anyway.


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[Plutonic Panda]

To be certain, not all of us are with these idiots protesting this. I've spared with several of them on the mesta park neighborhood web group. Lots of really dumb people in this neighborhood.


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I know.... I am just referring to the people that spout that crap. I know not everyone living there is like that. You'd be in my neighborhood if that were the case. lol

[BoulderSooner]

An email to the planning commission in support of this project would go a long way. Or to meg salyer about this project

[catch22]

^ That's a great idea.

A lot of people are unable to attend city business because it is weekday in the middle of the day. Not that it is a bad thing, but it is a conflict, and only the extremely dedicated will take off work to attend city business.

[Urbanized]

Yes. I just realized one of the fatalities was my former student at Westmoore High School. From everything I remember from him and sponsoring Asian-American Society, he was a good kid. The three identified people were all Westmoore graduates. Very sad.

Oh man, really sorry to hear that.

[soonerguru]

Infuriating. I would kill to live near an establishment like this.

On edit: has it ever occurred to these NIMBYs that the value of their property is enhanced by walkable access to quality dining / entertainment destinations, or do they prefer the ambience of boarded-up buildings, empty lots, and plasma donation centers?

Words don't do justice to describe the level of anger I feel toward these people right now.

OKC is on the cusp of greatness, but everything is going to be a fight to drag this city kicking and screaming into the 21st Century.

[Pete]

By far the most troubling thing is that the Planning Commission is setting a precedent and empowering homeowners to block development on commercial 4-lane roads.

Developers and investors are wanting to put hundreds of thousands of their own money into something cool for the community and it all gets negated because of a couple of people bought homes that back up to commercial lots then get bent out of shape when someone actually wants to operate a business there?

I understand the commission wanting everyone to get along but why put the power in the hands of the homeowners? Why not say, "The business is willing to abide by all existing laws and regulations, but perhaps they would be willing to do some things in the spirit of being a good neighbor." Rather than, "2AM is too late so you -- the business owner -- need to appease everyone who has a concern, legitimate or not."