Lift

[Pete]

Deep Deuce does feel residential but it's pretty mixed use (grocery store, several restaurants and bars) and will become much more that way when Aloft opens along with it's restaurants, coffee shop and bar.

Urban Johnnies is coming to Level, retail will be a part of Maywood II, there will be a coffee shop in Mosaic and of course the pop-up shops (OK SEA) will be happening just north of Maywood I.


It's funny how the various districts have started with one or two key components, then start to get the others:

Midtown: Employers, restaurants -- hotel, residential and some retail coming
Deep Deuce: Residential, a couple of restaurants -- hotel, more restaurants, coffee shops and retail coming
Bricktown: Entertainment, bars and restaurants -- lots more hotel rooms, residential and office coming
Film Row: Employers, a few restaurants -- more employers, likely more restaurants and a couple of bars
Plaza: Retail and some small employers -- now 3 restaurants & bars, more added
Auto Alley: Employers, a little retail -- now a bunch of restaurants, several new retailers, residential to come??

[Urbanized]

Pete, agree with all of this, but don't think folks in general understand how much office is already in Bricktown and has been for years. Probably more than any district other than (obviously) the CBD, and (perhaps) Automobile Alley. During the week from 9-5 more than anything it is a business district.

[Spartan]

Pete, agree with all of this, but don't think folks in general understand how much office is already in Bricktown and has been for years. Probably more than any district other than (obviously) the CBD, and (perhaps) Automobile Alley. During the week from 9-5 more than anything it is a business district.

...and home to some great, rapidly growing companies like Advanced Academics, Sonic, Long Wave, architecture firms, law firms, etc.

[Pete]

I just calculated this on Google Earth...

Midtown (13th to 8th to Western to I-235): 342 acres (566 if you go all the way to NW 4th, which is the official boundary)
Deep Deuce: 81 acres
Bricktown: 108 acres
Lower BT: 59 acres
Plaza: 14 acres
CBD: 158 acres

[Urbanized]

That's nuts. Twice the size of the CBD. And probably well over half-empty as it sits today. Talk about amazing potential...

[catch22]

I wonder if in the future Midtown will began to develop little sub districts that have their own unique character and architectural themes...

[Urbanized]

By the way, I think this illustrates why all of the early focus on/enthusiasm for C2S was premature; there is still so much opportunity and need for infill before we take on another massive chunk of real estate downtown. But at the current rate of large-parcel development, the outlying areas might finally be realistic in a few more years.

[lasomeday]

By the way, I think this illustrates why all of the early focus on/enthusiasm for C2S was premature; there is still so much opportunity and need for infill before we take on another massive chunk of real estate downtown. But at the current rate of large-parcel development, the outlying areas might finally be realistic in a few more years.

These large residential developments will spur the smaller lots to become restaurants or retail, or developers will start going vertical. We haven't gotten that far yet, but at this rate we could see some vertical development in 5-7 years. That is a lot closer than it sounds.

[Urbanized]

Agree. We love what we're getting now; wait and see what we start to get when land becomes tight. We haven't seen such a thing in downtown OKC for more than half a century.

[soonerguru]

By the way, I think this illustrates why all of the early focus on/enthusiasm for C2S was premature; there is still so much opportunity and need for infill before we take on another massive chunk of real estate downtown. But at the current rate of large-parcel development, the outlying areas might finally be realistic in a few more years.

Agree completely. Fortunately the developers are focusing on the right areas.

[betts]

By the way, I think this illustrates why all of the early focus on/enthusiasm for C2S was premature; there is still so much opportunity and need for infill before we take on another massive chunk of real estate downtown. But at the current rate of large-parcel development, the outlying areas might finally be realistic in a few more years.

Although, I would seriously consider buying on the park, if it becomes an option reasonably soon. That would be a dream location for me.

[Spartan]

Agree. We love what we're getting now; wait and see what we start to get when land becomes tight. We haven't seen such a thing in downtown OKC for more than half a century.

I would rather see downtown keep adding real estate, ie taking on Midtown once Deep Deuce is complete, C2S once Midtown is complete, then go west along Main, Linwood, etc once C2S is complete, and so on.

A skyscraper really doesn't do much for the urban fabric. Most European cities have some skyline, but are still overwhelmingly comprised of 3-5 story buildings. That is proven human scale. The best American cities have also implemented that scale to a great degree of success, such as Portland.

I'd rather have several more blocks of this 2-5 story stuff than a new skyscraper. As it is, it looks like we can still have a new skyscraper here and there.

[betts]

I spent last week in Manhattan but on Sunday we went to Brooklyn. It was like a breath of fresh air to walk along the rows of town houses and 4-6 story warehouses. I must say I prefer that type of building to masses of skyscrapers, which I suppose is why I live where I do.

[CaptDave]

I spent last week in Manhattan but on Sunday we went to Brooklyn. It was like a breath of fresh air to walk along the rows of town houses and 4-6 story warehouses. I must say I prefer that type of building to masses of skyscrapers, which I suppose is why I live where I do.

That is also part of the reason Washington DC doesn't feel as closed off as places with nothing but glass towers. (Although I have a great affinity for downtown Chicago with its collection of impressive towers and classic architecture. DC and Chicago are the cities I am most likely to move to.)

[Spartan]

Chicago outside the loop, and away from the lakeshore, is still mostly brownstone neighborhoods though. If you're ever in town and looking for a good driving tour, just take Halsted all the way through town. It's a great city, I too can see myself there more than any other city I haven't already lived in.

[CaptDave]

Chicago outside the loop, and away from the lakeshore, is still mostly brownstone neighborhoods though. If you're ever in town and looking for a good driving tour, just take Halsted all the way through town. It's a great city, I too can see myself there more than any other city I haven't already lived in.

We did the lake shore drive from NTC Great Lakes to Evanston to visit Northwestern and then straight down to Michigan Ave. We hit some of the places you mentioned too. I found a lake front high rise condo for under $200K - very tempting if I didn't have kids still in school......but I can definitely see ending up there, with a place in the North Carolina mountains too.

[Spartan]

Well, speaking of NC, when you become a Great Laker it is almost mandatory to spend your summers in the OBX

[Just the facts]

I wonder if in the future Midtown will began to develop little sub districts that have their own unique character and architectural themes...

It is going to be this^. Draw a 1/4 mile radius circle around the roundabout at 10th and Walker and that will be a neighborhood. The 5 point intersection makes a nice focal point and I suspect will become the commercial center of Midtown - which itself will take on a more localized connotation. Areas now considered part of "Midtown" will become known as something else as the pedestrian shed neighborhood model takes hold.

[betts]

Chicago outside the loop, and away from the lakeshore, is still mostly brownstone neighborhoods though. If you're ever in town and looking for a good driving tour, just take Halsted all the way through town. It's a great city, I too can see myself there more than any other city I haven't already lived in.

I'm there all the time and my daughter lives in Lakeview, but has lived in Ukrainian Village and Wicker Park. It's my favorite US city. I just wish the winters were warmer.

[Urbanized]

Yeah, I wasn't advocating skyscrapers, though I would be happy to see some mid- to high-rise housing as land gets tighter. What I think will be exciting to see is even more creative approaches to infill, non traditional lots, elimination of surface parking. And yes, even some housing that exceeds our now-best height of FIVE stories.

[Teo9969]

I hope that developers continue to focus on developing every lot north of 9th before approaching south Midtown [4th/Robinson/9th/Walker box] I feel like this is potentially the most important area of downtown if we do the most horrible thing we could do and put an arena on the Cox site.

I would love to see this area consist of nothing short of 8 stories and nothing north of 14 stories, and have a major development similar to Berlin's KaDeWe, and make it mostly approachable by foot only (maybe have one level of underground parking, mainly for employees)

But I think we're at least 5 to 10 years away from being able to support a district with that kind of volume of square footage that's not predominantly office space.

[CaptDave]

Yeah, I wasn't advocating skyscrapers, though I would be happy to see some mid- to high-rise housing as land gets tighter. What I think will be exciting to see is even more creative approaches to infill, non traditional lots, elimination of surface parking. And yes, even some housing that exceeds our now-best height of FIVE stories.

Like - a lot.

[Spartan]

I am just saying, I love that we have a ton of 300+ unit projects and that they all spread out and cover ground area. We have so much ground area to be covered. Edge, Metropolitan, Steel Yard, this, Legacy (design aside), Level, etc are all exactly what we need in this city. The debate over where to site a new tower is so absurd bc we still have such a pockmarked downtown region AND we now gotta work on the linkages between CBD and surrounding districts.

[dankrutka]

Why can both issues not be discussed at once? Are we only allowed to discuss how to fill in the downtown area, but not where new class A office space might locate? I am not sure I understand the concern.

[BDP]

The question was "what made you choose this site?" It's a standard question I ask. I will note Gary's response was more about talking up Midtown rather than dismissing another district. And his response was not unlike responses given by other developers. When I broke the story about The Metropolitan in July, John Gilbert with the Bomasada Group made a comment similar to what Gary said, except it was promoting the east side of downtown as the only good spot left.
To quote:
Gilbert, who presented the project Thursday to the Downtown Design Review Committee, said the site for The Metropolitan, NE 6 and Oklahoma Avenue, is the last best remaining site downtown for new housing.

The property is immediately east of Ninth Street, home to a popular mix of restaurants and shops. The southeast corner of the property is home to a pocket park built by the Automobile Alley Association.

"We like this site better," Gilbert said. "We are within walking distance of Bricktown, Deep Deuce, Automobile Alley and MidTown. We have great access to I-235 and 10th Street. We really have great access to everywhere in the city."


Not sure I remember the folks who participate in this website making a fuss over that. But you guys are gonna do what you're gonna do....

There probably wasn't as much fuss over it because it wasn't inaccurate. The Metropolitan will have great access to all of these things. Suggesting that MidTown is the place to go if you want more than an apartment and restaurants just isn't accurate at this point. Anywhere in DD right now has a better access to a larger variety of services than this development will. And the Metropolitan will probably be even better right when it opens in terms of access. I don't think anyone was saying MidTown isn't good, it just basically offers only the two things mentioned in the relevant quote (apartments and restaurants) while other areas currently offer better access to more. I don't think the "fuss" was as much about MidTown > DD or vice versa, but about the way other districts were inaccurately characterized, or maybe even the way MidTown was presented.

Honestly, if Midtown remains largely just apartments and restaurants, I'd be fine with that. I think that certainly is the way to create the liveliest district downtown. I think DD, with its mix of owner occupied and leasing will probably always be a little more laid back, with grocery and restaurant corners, instead of whole blocks of retail and bars.