Retail Explosion on Memorial Road

[Plutonic Panda]

Yes, Chesepeake had to beg and pay Whole Foods to open up here and while Tulsa has opened up another Whole Foods, OKC is still waiting on their second location. Tulsa got The Fresh Market before us. They look at OKC, look at our statistics and demographics and tend to pass over us. We have been well overdue for many new retail. Walmart still owns some absurd ammount of the grocery share. A few major more upscale retail moves in and they have done well, I would expect more for a city of this magnitude. Perhaos a downtown upscale shopping and better grocery stores. This suburban stuff is nice but lets be real here. OKc still has a ways to catch up.

I am however thrilled that Costco is coming. I will be more thrilled when they officially make an announcement. Crate and Barrel is also coming according to Pete, which is really nice. I hope trader joes comes and I also hope OKC continues to attract more upscale retail. I am really excited at what has happened recently and hope it continues.

Tulsa is done son, they are beneath us and a whim in our shadow.

[MWCGuy]

Pretty sure OKC isn't allowing crap like that to be built anymore and secondly, just can't have management companies come in and do nothing with their properties and also should raise rental rates and not allow Section 8 residents.

It's easier said then done. Housing laws prevent drastic increases in rent. I think the most they go up is $25-$50 at each lease renewal. To get the $50 they have to make upgrade to your unit and/or the property itself. The only way I have ever seen complexes cleaned up is for the property manager or company to shut down the complex as a whole, remodel and reopen.

[MWCGuy]

Y Walmart still owns some absurd ammount of the grocery share. A few major more upscale retail moves in and they have done well, I would expect more for a city of this magnitude. Perhaos a downtown upscale shopping and better grocery stores. This suburban stuff is nice but lets be real here. OKc still has a ways to catch up.

That is a common misconception about OKC. Walmart may have physical presence but, they do not rule the grocery market for most families anymore. Walmart is expensive to shop on most items anymore. We are finding better deals at Buy For Less and Crest here in Midwest City. The only thing we shop for at Walmart anymore is items for our toddler. We might spend barely $20 on that stuff each month.

[RadicalModerate]

LOL, that was an inside joke between me and RM based on a conversation we had long ago.

You, Sir, have an excellent memory. =)
One thing about all this: Traffic will be so snarled that EVERYTHING will have to be within walking distance of my house on account of all of the gridlocked automobiles that have been abandoned after a day or two of being stuck in traffic.

[RadicalModerate]

Steve and I are friends and share information frequently.

And we are both passionate about our respective mediums.

("eenie meanie chili beanie the spirits are about to speak . . .")

[bradh]

This reminds me a lot of the Legends area in Kansas City, with the retail, movie theater, water fall, some restaurants. The stores in this just won't be in a outlet mall format. But there is a lot of similarities.

We are just missing the race track and casino. You could mention the Great Wolf Lodge too.

Don't forget a top flight soccer stadium as well.

[bchris02]

Yes, Chesepeake had to beg and pay Whole Foods to open up here and while Tulsa has opened up another Whole Foods, OKC is still waiting on their second location. Tulsa got The Fresh Market before us. They look at OKC, look at our statistics and demographics and tend to pass over us. We have been well overdue for many new retail. Walmart still owns some absurd ammount of the grocery share. A few major more upscale retail moves in and they have done well, I would expect more for a city of this magnitude. Perhaos a downtown upscale shopping and better grocery stores. This suburban stuff is nice but lets be real here. OKc still has a ways to catch up.

I am however thrilled that Costco is coming. I will be more thrilled when they officially make an announcement. Crate and Barrel is also coming according to Pete, which is really nice. I hope trader joes comes and I also hope OKC continues to attract more upscale retail. I am really excited at what has happened recently and hope it continues.

I agree with this for the most part. It all goes back to the fact upscale retailers look for not just wealth but density. In OKC, the wealth is here but very spread out compared to Tulsa where it is concentrated in one part of town. That is historically why Tulsa has got all the good retail while OKC has been passed up. I never would have guessed that OKC would end up getting Costco prior to Tulsa. If it does end up happening, its going to be an excellent sign for our city. H&M is also a huge catch for this city.

In terms of grocery stores, the real problem is there are no national chains, all of the major ones having been run out by Wal-Mart. If Tulsa wasn't lucky enough to have an outstanding chain like Reasor's in their market, they would have almost the same situation that OKC has.

[Steve]

I will point out that already two things I reported on -- Main Event and the healthplex -- have been confirmed in just the last two days.

I also understand that Cabela's has put out at least an internal company communication about coming to OKC.


Many times, when we break information like this it forces the various parties involved to come out with official statements, including OPUBCO itself, which called a rushed employee meeting after we were the first to report that their properties had been sold to American Fidelity.


I will also say that Steve is making a bunch of allegations and assumptions without even contacting me, and we talk relatively frequently. He assumed that we got all this off the Chisholm Creek website, which we absolutely did not. As I stated in the very first line in the very first post on this thread, this information came from trusted sources in real estate, construction and economic development and I knew most of this for some time and waited to post it until I heard the same thing from several people. And since the first post I HAVE been in communication with the Chisholm Creek people.

I stand by the track record of the things we have first reported on this site.

And BTW, the Oklahoman and other traditional journalists report things all the time that never come to pass. If we all want to wait until something actually opens for business, there wouldn't be much need for reporting at all.

My criticism was aimed at the TV report, not at this site. I had a couple of tweets that were not well worded, shouldn't have combined "chat site" with the TV report, and I've withdrawn those.

[warreng88]

He (Steve) made about 10 tweets tonight trying to discredit what was in the original post.

I do trust Steve as a journalist but I don't see what he was doing as any different than several of the people on this forum do.

Wow. This is very interesting. I'll be a cynic until dirt is turned, but if it does come about, I'll be thrilled.

I agree. I am not going to bank on this project happening until the ground is turned. If it ends up happening, I'll be very thrilled.

I agree with this. If this were any other city, I would say the project is inevitable, but given the history of retail developments here I can't help but have doubts. If this actually turns out as planned, then it will signal a HUGE shift in OKC's retail development history and set the bar much higher for future developments.

I am not slamming OKC as a whole, but you have to admit solid retail developments haven't been a strong point of this city in recent decades especially compared to others its size. The only thing recent I can think of that hasn't been scaled down/cheapened unrecognizably is the outlet mall. If this development gets built as proposed, that is going to signal a huge turning point for this city.

Pretty hesitant to believe Costco and Crate and Barrel will come knowing the history of retail in this city. Those are nice stores for here. It's long over due though.

Agree with this.

As much as I love this concept and think OKC is way overdue for such a district, I too have my doubts. I've heard for years that Costco would love to come to OKC, but the liquor laws are what keep them from pulling the trigger. Until we see real change to those laws, I doubt they'll make that move.

I have watched this thread grow, and I'm still learning about this project, but it looks to be another strip mall letdown. This wreaks of University North Park.

I hope this turns out to be OKC's first true lifestyle center..with these incredible retailers, they should go back to the drawing board and re-plan this development. This should be done right; give us something that will be an OKC landmark for decades to come.

Not another Mayfair Village or Belle Isle or other faded strip malls.

Not defending Steve in any way, but there are plenty of other people who are curious if the whole plan will come to fruition.

[Steve]

This was the tweet that got things started:
Amazed to see a TV report tonight on a "rumored" development in NW OKC based on a website & talk on an online forum. Rumors only...

Now, I understand where Pete might get upset with the "rumors only ..." part. I could be interpreted as saying his info was "rumors only." That was not my intent. Pete is very well connected in real estate and I've always respected his work. Again, wording could have been better, and I mixed in "chat site" when I shouldn't have. But this TV report - it was literally based on rumors and the website - no actual reporting. Be upset with the TV guy who ripped Pete off....

[Anonymous.]

Yea I don't understand how the TV stations pulled information from OKCTalk and even displayed the images that were created here... I didn't hear credit given unless I just missed it?

[David]

So did we get many new registered users from the influx of visitors yesterday?

[Pete]

I'll address the reporting, twitter comments and site activity in another thread.

Let's please keep this about the retailers and developments in the original post.

Thanks.

[OKCisOK4me]

It's easier said then done. Housing laws prevent drastic increases in rent. I think the most they go up is $25-$50 at each lease renewal. To get the $50 they have to make upgrade to your unit and/or the property itself. The only way I have ever seen complexes cleaned up is for the property manager or company to shut down the complex as a whole, remodel and reopen.

Yep, I renewed my lease where I live and it only went up $13. They haven't made any additional improvements to my unit since before I moved in but I assume the rate increase is due to improvements to the overall property.

[Steve]

My apologies for mixing in the forum with my comments at the TV station. I looked back at my tweets and I could have worded them better. My real intent was to show how flimsy the TV report was, and to address questions as to whether this is happening. According to my sources, much of this is not done yet, most notably the Costco. I'm not trying to take issue with the info posted by Pete; it was the TV report that was truly based on nothing.

[warreng88]

I'll address the reporting, twitter comments and site activity in another thread.

Let's please keep this about the retailers and developments in the original post.

Thanks.

Thanks Pete for all that you do. Any idea when they could break ground on the basic developments on this division? I work in the banking industry and I know smaller housing developments can take up to a year to clear the land, surveys, drainage, streets, sidewalks and everything that goes with that.

[Pete]

As I stated earlier, I've heard Chisholm Creek is working with a large architecture and engineering firm in Dallas to get this whole thing on the fast track.

I'm sure they will start with the healthplex and a couple of the larger anchors but will need to think through the entire site (entrances, roads, drainage, etc.) at the outset.

[OKCisOK4me]

Pete, any idea on when Main Event will start turning dirt?

Also, what's your percentage chance of the Cabelas thing really happening? I told my dad and he was shocked. He thought Cabelas is just going to shut down Bass Pro but I told him that BP is more of a tourist thing and I think they will both keep bringing money into the city.

[Pete]

Pete, any idea on when Main Event will start turning dirt?

Building permit applied for yesterday...

Their site is vacant land so they could get started any time.

[OKCisOK4me]

Building permit applied for yesterday...

Their site is vacant land so they could get started any time.

I'm quite excited for that place. Are Main Events generally like Dave & Busters where after a certain time, say 9pm, it's 21 and up to enter?

[Rivalyn]

It's easier said then done. Housing laws prevent drastic increases in rent. I think the most they go up is $25-$50 at each lease renewal. To get the $50 they have to make upgrade to your unit and/or the property itself. The only way I have ever seen complexes cleaned up is for the property manager or company to shut down the complex as a whole, remodel and reopen.

And the chances of them re-modeling when there's about 10 different fairly new apartment complexes along May and Penn is slim. Granted, if this development gets off the ground one of the apartment sets probably will get snatched up and rebuilt just so you can walk straight to this entertainment district. I'm staring at you, little apartments across from Freddie's on Penn.

[Mr. Cotter]

I'm quite excited for that place. Are Main Events generally like Dave & Busters where after a certain time, say 9pm, it's 21 and up to enter?

Unless they have changed since I lived in Dallas, they stay family friendly all night. Locations will also close early for certain private events, such as "lockins" or parties.

[UnFrSaKn]

Quote from Steve from the live chat:

Yes, premature speculation, right or wrong, can hurt deals. I've seen it happen. So that makes my job all the more challenging. Likewise, some developers will use media to hype projects that are far more show than substance. At this point, quite honestly, Pete Brzycki, operator of OKC Talk, is one of the leading sources of solid real estate news that I take very seriously. There was a TV report last night I considered to be pretty flimsy, and I made some tweets last night that unfortunately (and partially due to my own clumsy wording) indicated I was critical of the information being put out by Pete. So for that, I sincerely apologize. This question you ask, I realize, is based on that discussion.

[Pete]

From the TopGolf Facebook page:

Hi friends, we have had some inquiries this week about the status of TopGolf in Oklahoma. We just wanted you to know that the TopGolf team has visited Oklahoma City to meet with some developers and city officials. We are still actively evaluating sites for a potential location, and we will keep you posted on any progress. We remain excited to explore our options in Oklahoma!

[Thundercitizen]

So, no Rainforest Cafe or T-Rex Restaurant on the horizon?