Costco

[bombermwc]

Liquor laws don't keep companies out. They may have to change what they do and remove some offerings, but they simply flat out dont KEEP them from coming. Aldi and Whole Foods both normally offer wine. Costco is no different. Not that they were a good business model, but Williams flat out didn't sell alcohol at all. And if you were to go check out Creat/WalMart, how much do you thing the beer aisle makes them? I bet it's not much compared to the rest of the store.

There are some inventive ways of doing the whole thing, but that doesn't mean they want to spend the money on it. Look at Aldi, just as an example. Don't read too much into it or try to just make crazy stretch from it. It could just as easily be Crest or Homeland. Aldi has enough parking on their store plots to add a liquor "room" with a seperate entrance/register/etc. Aldi Stoer Liquor #12345. If WalMart/Crest REALLY wanted to sell liqour and not just beer type drinks, one of those small storefronts at the front of the store could EASILY be leased out to a subsidiary. Liqour of Walmart Sore #12345, Liqour of Walmart Store 12346, etc.

I'm not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of the laws, my (probably overly simplisitc) point here is that there are ways to make this work. But there are a great many factors to it that currently make it cost prohibitive. Things like the distance to the nearest park/school/etc.

But all of these stores sell this stuff in other states but it hasn't kept the stores from coming to Oklahoma. If Costo wants to come here, they'll simply do it withouth liqour. That's really the point of my post, granted it's a bit long-winded. All i'm saying is that the liquor laws don't really "keep stores out of the state", even though i think the liqour laws here are a bunch of total B.S.

[gamecock]

Liquor laws don't keep companies out. They may have to change what they do and remove some offerings, but they simply flat out dont KEEP them from coming. Aldi and Whole Foods both normally offer wine. Costco is no different. Not that they were a good business model, but Williams flat out didn't sell alcohol at all. And if you were to go check out Creat/WalMart, how much do you thing the beer aisle makes them? I bet it's not much compared to the rest of the store.

There are some inventive ways of doing the whole thing, but that doesn't mean they want to spend the money on it. Look at Aldi, just as an example. Don't read too much into it or try to just make crazy stretch from it. It could just as easily be Crest or Homeland. Aldi has enough parking on their store plots to add a liquor "room" with a seperate entrance/register/etc. Aldi Stoer Liquor #12345. If WalMart/Crest REALLY wanted to sell liqour and not just beer type drinks, one of those small storefronts at the front of the store could EASILY be leased out to a subsidiary. Liqour of Walmart Sore #12345, Liqour of Walmart Store 12346, etc.

I'm not going to pretend to know the ins and outs of the laws, my (probably overly simplisitc) point here is that there are ways to make this work. But there are a great many factors to it that currently make it cost prohibitive. Things like the distance to the nearest park/school/etc.

But all of these stores sell this stuff in other states but it hasn't kept the stores from coming to Oklahoma. If Costo wants to come here, they'll simply do it withouth liqour. That's really the point of my post, granted it's a bit long-winded. All i'm saying is that the liquor laws don't really "keep stores out of the state", even though i think the liqour laws here are a bunch of total B.S.

I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that they can come in spite of these laws, but clearly when they have to change their preferred way of doing business, it may discourage them. In other words, it could make another location relatively more attractive. We want to be attracting these companies, not giving them reasons to locate elsewhere.

[Plutonic Panda]

Does anyone here know generally how fast do Costco stores go up?

[Pete]

Does anyone here know generally how fast do Costco stores go up?

Fast.

They are basically huge concrete boxes with tons of stackable warehouse racks.

[beshy]

Does anyone here know generally how fast do Costco stores go up?

Usually in about 3-4 month from breaking ground to opening.

[Plutonic Panda]

Fast.

They are basically huge concrete boxes with tons of stackable warehouse racks.

Usually in about 3-4 month from breaking ground to opening.

Wow, ok. I would've thought maybe about a year.

[bluedogok]

The one in South Austin took about 9 months from groundbreaking. Some of that may have been due to environmental concerns since it is in the Edwards Aquifer Recharge Zone. They have no gas station at that location unlike the ones in North Austin and Selma (just north of San Antonio).

[LuccaBrasi]

At a summer Planning Commission meeting, they closed an utility and drainage easement on this site, owned by Houghton Heights Limited Partnership, but said it was for "new medical office".

[beshy]

Tulsa's efforts to get Costco.

City considers incentives to bring big-box retailers to Tulsa | Tulsa World

[bchris02]

I wonder if Tulsa will convince them to open up there first? I honestly would be surprised if that isn't what ends up happening. It has been almost a year since the last rumor that Costco had selected a Tulsa site.

[Mastermind]

I never thought I'd see a Nordstrom Rack in Oklahoma, and look what happened
We need a Costco asap. I'm so sick of Sam's Club. The one near me has terrible customer service, sparse selection of even the most essentials... even if Tulsa gets one first, I'm willing to drive.

[LuccaBrasi]

I spoke with a Costco's real estate representative who told me Tulsa will definitely come first. He said they have looked around OKC, but would not commit to saying they are coming here. He said it would be at least 12-18 months.

[bchris02]

I spoke with a Costco's real estate representative who told me Tulsa will definitely come first. He said they have looked around OKC, but would not commit to saying they are coming here. He said it would be at least 12-18 months.

This doesn't surprise me. Everything cool comes to Tulsa first.

I wonder if Wal-Mart saturation in OKC has anything to do with making Tulsa a more preferable market for them? I wouldn't think Costco would depend on high concentration of high-income homes like upscale retail does. Maybe it's simply that Tulsa's retail environment is already light years ahead of OKCs.

[progressiveboy]

This doesn't surprise me. Everything cool comes to Tulsa first.

I wonder if Wal-Mart saturation in OKC has anything to do with making Tulsa a more preferable market for them? I wouldn't think Costco would depend on high concentration of high-income homes like upscale retail does. Maybe it's simply that Tulsa's retail environment is already light years ahead of OKCs.

Can you give us examples of how Tulsa's retail environment is light years ahead? With all due respect, you constantly talk about how OKC is saturated with Wal Mart and complain about the choice selections here. Sometimes I have to question your motives on this thread??

[progressiveboy]

I spoke with a Costco's real estate representative who told me Tulsa will definitely come first. He said they have looked around OKC, but would not commit to saying they are coming here. He said it would be at least 12-18 months.

Really??? I am questioning?? this because clearly it states in first post of this thread that Costco is buying land at Memorial and Western. Furthermore, why would they sit on the land for 12-18 months before they build? Who is this Costco representative? Clearly they should already know that the land is being secured in OKC? Sounds rather fishy, lol.

[Plutonic Panda]

I spoke with a Costco's real estate representative who told me Tulsa will definitely come first. He said they have looked around OKC, but would not commit to saying they are coming here. He said it would be at least 12-18 months.

Proof?

I sent in this email and will post the response.

"Is there any chance that you guys will expand into the Oklahoma City market? Further more, if Costco comes to Oklahoma, would they set up shop in Tulsa first or Oklahoma City first? I would sign up instantly if one were to open up here in OKC and it would very much be appreciated by many here! "

I don't think they will be in Tulsa for awhile.

[GaryOKC6]

I spoke with a Costco's real estate representative who told me Tulsa will definitely come first. He said they have looked around OKC, but would not commit to saying they are coming here. He said it would be at least 12-18 months.

I am not sure that Costco is very happy to have all this info out there until they are ready to make an announcement. They are not going to tell you anything on the front end. That is why they would not commit to coming here at all. They are very secretive about these expansions into new markets.

[WilliamTell]

I grew up in Tulsa and I personally think it has to do having less powerful Suburbs. A retailer could put something in South Tulsa and never consider what about east tulsa, west tulsa, north tulsa. At least in my perspective things in Tulsa are Tulsa centered, while here its all suburb centered. I've lived in OKC for 8 years now and i've met a handful of people through my different employers who have actually lived in OKC schools area.

Think about OKC, the entire city is segregated into different communities centered around the interstate. I35 in norman, I35 for moore, 240 for south okc, bricktown, midwest city I40e, yukon I40w, penn square, kilpatric, broadway extension, and now i35n in edmond.

Where is the proper place to put something new? All of these areas have centers of wealth that arent typically willing to drive 30 minutes to another section of town.

[bchris02]

I grew up in Tulsa and I personally think it has to do with the layout of the city being better and having less developed Suburbs. A retailer could put something in South Tulsa and never consider what about east tulsa, west tulsa, north tulsa. At least in my perspective things in Tulsa are Tulsa centered, while here its all suburb centered.

Think about OKC, the entire city is segregated into different communities centered around the interstate. I35 in norman, I35 for moore, 240 for south okc, bricktown, midwest city I40e, yukon I40w, penn square, kilpatric, broadway extension, and now i35n in edmond.

Where is the proper place to put something new? All of these areas have centers of wealth that arent typically willing to drive 30 minutes to another section of town.

You are right. It may be because Tulsa is so much more cohesive its easier for retailers to select a site. OKC really seems like multiple smaller communities rolled into one based off of how spread out it is. I can understand upscale retailers like Saks opting for Tulsa over OKC because of the distribution of wealth is more concentrated, but mid-tier retailers like Costco shouldn't have any issues with a market like OKC. It has to be simply easier to select a site in Tulsa. In OKC, Costco will likely need at least a northside and southside location.

[bluedogok]

You are right. It may be because Tulsa is so much more cohesive its easier for retailers to select a site. OKC really seems like multiple smaller communities rolled into one based off of how spread out it is. I can understand upscale retailers like Saks opting for Tulsa over OKC because of the distribution of wealth is more concentrated, but mid-tier retailers like Costco shouldn't have any issues with a market like OKC. It has to be simply easier to select a site in Tulsa. In OKC, Costco will likely need at least a northside and southside location.

Doesn't Saks get a subsidy from the owner of Utica Square? If they didn't get that more than likely they wouldn't be in Tulsa. It is also a smaller store than most of the other Saks stores that I have been in other cities.

Austin has two locations, the South Austin store opened up around 2007, not sure when the north store opened up but it was there when I moved to Austin in 2003. Austin is a little easier than OKC because the majority of the population (and money) is west of I-35 and is constrained by The Hill Country to the west. Eventually once the northern burbs (Round Rock, Pflugerville, Georgetown, Hutto) grow I would imagine a third location somewhere around Ikea and the outlet mall is located. The northwestern burbs (Cedar Park, Leander, Liberty Hill) will probably have to be served by the current North Austin store. Judging by how old some of the stores are here in the Denver area they don't tend to move locations to newer stores like Sam's does. May have to do with the difference in property acquisition mentality, Sam's does most locations on a build to suit lease and I think Costco does outright property ownership.

I could see three possible Costco locations, the Memorial location being discussed, a Moore/Norman location and a Mustang/Yukon location. I think the odds of one east is remote and the west location would be the least likely or last one to be done. There is about 25 miles between the Austin locations, we have three locations within that distance of our house out here in far southeast Denver and about six Sam's locations.

[progressiveboy]

I grew up in Tulsa and I personally think it has to do having less developed Suburbs. A retailer could put something in South Tulsa and never consider what about east tulsa, west tulsa, north tulsa. At least in my perspective things in Tulsa are Tulsa centered, while here its all suburb centered. I've lived in OKC for 8 years now and i've met a handful of people through my different employers who have actually lived in OKC schools area.

Think about OKC, the entire city is segregated into different communities centered around the interstate. I35 in norman, I35 for moore, 240 for south okc, bricktown, midwest city I40e, yukon I40w, penn square, kilpatric, broadway extension, and now i35n in edmond.

Where is the proper place to put something new? All of these areas have centers of wealth that arent typically willing to drive 30 minutes to another section of town.

Sorry not buying it? OKC is logistically layed out much better than Tulsa? OKC has 3 major interstates I40, I35, I44 running through the city. In addition, OKC is layed out pretty much in a grid, NW NE, SW, SE, etc.. so the ease of getting to places is much more plausible than in Tulsa?? Not going to turn this into a Tulsa-vs-OKC rivalry though so I will arrest my case, lol.

[bchris02]

Sorry not buying it? OKC is logistically layed out much better than Tulsa? OKC has 3 major interstates I40, I35, I44 running through the city. In addition, OKC is layed out pretty much in a grid, NW NE, SW, SE, etc.. so the ease of getting to places is much more plausible than in Tulsa?? Not going to turn this into a Tulsa-vs-OKC rivalry though so I will arrest my case, lol.

The development and growth in OKC is very spread out, regardless of it being at the perfect intersection on the Interstate Highway System. It's difficult to select a single location that will be convenient for NW OKC, Edmond, the inner Northside, along with Moore/SW OKC/Norman. In OKC, Costco will need at least two locations. In Tulsa, it can get by with one simply because of the layout of the city.

[OKCisOK4me]

The development and growth in OKC is very spread out, regardless of it being at the perfect intersection on the Interstate Highway System. It's difficult to select a single location that will be convenient for NW OKC, Edmond, the inner Northside, along with Moore/SW OKC/Norman. In OKC, Costco will need at least two locations. In Tulsa, it can get by with one simply because of the layout of the city.

Okay, so say they build a Costco around 71st & Memorial. How is driving from Owasso to there any different than someone from Norman driving to Western & Memorial in OKC? I don't get it...

[bchris02]

Okay, so say they build a Costco around 71st & Memorial. How is driving from Owasso to there any different than someone from Norman driving to Western & Memorial in OKC? I don't get it...

It would be similar if there was continuous sprawl from Owasso all the way to Claremore, but there isn't.

Right now, for a big box retailer wanting to enter a market they consider 'risky', its a lot easier in to select a sure site in Tulsa than it is OKC. We all know that Costco will do very well in OKC, but the formula used by most retailers that works for most other cities doesn't say the same thing. There really is no focal point for retail in OKC. In Memphis it is Germantown. In Charlotte it is the Southpark area. In OKC it could have been Penn Square had Belle Isle been something better than a Wal-Mart shopping center. I think in OKC it will eventually be Memorial but it will take at least a couple more years to get there.

Little Rock used to have the same problem, back when NW Arkansas seemed to get all the good retail developments and Little Rock was passed up. They built a few risky, ambitious developments and then after a few years things have really fallen into place.

[WilliamTell]

Sorry not buying it? OKC is logistically layed out much better than Tulsa? OKC has 3 major interstates I40, I35, I44 running through the city. In addition, OKC is layed out pretty much in a grid, NW NE, SW, SE, etc.. so the ease of getting to places is much more plausible than in Tulsa?? Not going to turn this into a Tulsa-vs-OKC rivalry though so I will arrest my case, lol.

I think you missed the core of my message, so i will restate it.

If a retailer is thinking about entering the Tulsa market its a easy decision put one into South Tulsa, because South Tulsa and its suburbs are so much nicer than the rest of the city.

With OKC, you have a spread out population with centers of wealth in every direction N,E,S,W. So they have to chose, do we want it in Norman, Moore, Midwest/Choctaw(not so much there), Yukon/ Mustang, NW OKC, Old Edmond or new Edmond?