Big retailer is eyeing OKC & Tulsa

[SoonerDave]

So while not a monopoly, Wal-Mart's grocery presence here has certainly been outsized, and undoubtedly affected the quality of competition we would have seen here.

Now that's a reasonable (not to mention accurate) way to characterize it.

No problem with the discussion about quality or quantity of retailers. I just want to encourage the discussion to pivot on facts, that's all.

The only thing I'd add is that Oklahoma City's market was arguably underserved before WalMart showed up. There was a period in the 90's or thereabouts where a great many of the locally owned grocers, such as Buchanan's, Pratt's, some of the IGA stores, started struggling before WM showed up. Homeland, nee Safeway, bounced around for a time, Albertsons (nee Skaggs) was around for a while, but others came in and failed, such as Food Lion. I recall reading a business/news article about the grocery issue in OK, back when there were first rumblings of WM coming in, and the story focused on the fact that there were more than a few studies out there that indicated the OKC area could support several other grocers, and thus one could argue that WM came in and filled that void, at least to a degree.

[Jim Kyle]

I've had bad luck with getting expired or nearly expired goods at both Crest on N MacArthur and Homeland. Usually I try to stick to Buy for Less on NW Expressway or Sprouts. They are usually pretty good quality stuff. I like Uptown Grocery but its a little far from me to be a real option.

My experience has been exactly the opposite. A couple of weeks ago I went to WalMart to replace a 30-year-old toaster and, while there, picked up a few groceries including a cello-pack of two tomatoes. When I went to use the second, it was rotten and black on the underside. No more Walmart groceries for me -- escept for two brands of goodies I've not found elsewhere: Lance's Nekot sandwich cookies and Grapette soda.

And the last batch of moldy bread I got came from the now-defunct Buy For Less at NW Hiway and Council Road.

As for expired or nearly-expired goods, the last time I saw them on sale was at the short-lived Williams store, now a Homeland, at NW 122 and Rockwell. It was an entire display of Miracle Whip at an amazingly low price, but only a month short of its use-by (not sell-by) date. There was a reason those folk went back to Tulsa, and it wasn't competition from WalMart!

Incidentally, where is the Crest on N MacArthur? I use the one at Hefner and Rockwell, and have been in the one at NW 23 and Meridian and the original up in Edmond (which rivals any Kroger's or Ralph's I've visited in other cities), but haven't heard of one on MacArthur...

[bchris02]

^^^ Actually I meant Crest on N Rockwell.

[bluedogok]

You could pretty much say that HEB has a "monopoly" on the Austin and San Antonio (their home) markets because they dwarf the other stores there which is Randall's (Safeway) and Fiesta which I believe has only three stores in the Austin metro area. There are probably more HEB stores in Austin than all other grocers combined, so one company dominating the market is not that uncommon. It seems like there are many more King Soupers (Kroger) up here in Denver than Safeway or Albertson's. Even though Whole Foods is based there they only had two stores until they recently started opening up smaller locations. There are a few Sprouts around and that is pretty much it, Albertson's left the market completely in 2009. When I moved in 2011 there were no WMNM as of that time.

[CaptDave]

I saw a tractor trailer with HEB advertising on the entire trailer going north on 235 last week. Talk about giving false hope........

[soonerguru]

You could pretty much say that HEB has a "monopoly" on the Austin and San Antonio (their home) markets because they dwarf the other stores there which is Randall's (Safeway) and Fiesta which I believe has only three stores in the Austin metro area. There are probably more HEB stores in Austin than all other grocers combined, so one company dominating the market is not that uncommon. It seems like there are many more King Soupers (Kroger) up here in Denver than Safeway or Albertson's. Even though Whole Foods is based there they only had two stores until they recently started opening up smaller locations. There are a few Sprouts around and that is pretty much it, Albertson's left the market completely in 2009. When I moved in 2011 there were no WMNM as of that time.

Don't forget Austin also has Central Market -- perhaps you meant this as part of your HEB comments.

[bluedogok]

Don't forget Austin also has Central Market -- perhaps you meant this as part of your HEB comments.

Yes it was included in HEB, but there are only two Central Markets in Austin. There are only 9 Central Market stores (DFW-5, Austin-2, San Antonio-1, Houston-1). There are 48-50 HEB or HEB Plus stores in the Central Texas (Austin) market depending upon how far out that is considered the Austin metro area. There are 14 Randall's stores in Austin.

[soonerguru]

Yes it was included in HEB, but there are only two Central Markets in Austin. There are only 9 Central Market stores (DFW-5, Austin-2, San Antonio-1, Houston-1). There are 48-50 HEB or HEB Plus stores in the Central Texas (Austin) market depending upon how far out that is considered the Austin metro area. There are 14 Randall's stores in Austin.

Wow, I would take any of those options over Homeland / Buy for Less.

[bluedogok]

Wow, I would take any of those options over Homeland / Buy for Less.

There is still one dominant grocer in the Austin area which was the point of bchris02 statement prior about Walmart dominating the OKC market, I was just trying to illustrate that it is not uncommon for one grocer to dominate a market, in fact it is probably the norm. Granted, HEB is a significant upgrade over Walmart, Safeway/Randall's is very hit and miss, just like the Homeland stores that replaced them in OKC. The chain that replaced Safeway in Austin at the same time (Apple Tree) is no longer around. I thought Tom Thumb in Dallas was better than Houston based Randall's that bought them and eventually sold out to Safeway. I probably haven't been in a Safeway but once or twice in a year because King Soupers is cheaper and better and there are more of them. I wish we had HEB up here and I know my father liked HEB whenever he visited, he mostly shops at the 23rd & Meridian Crest store.

[soonerguru]

There is still one dominant grocer in the Austin area which was the point of bchris02 statement prior about Walmart dominating the OKC market, I was just trying to illustrate that it is not uncommon for one grocer to dominate a market, in fact it is probably the norm. Granted, HEB is a significant upgrade over Walmart, Safeway/Randall's is very hit and miss, just like the Homeland stores that replaced them in OKC. The chain that replaced Safeway in Austin at the same time (Apple Tree) is no longer around. I thought Tom Thumb in Dallas was better than Houston based Randall's that bought them and eventually sold out to Safeway. I probably haven't been in a Safeway but once or twice in a year because King Soupers is cheaper and better and there are more of them. I wish we had HEB up here and I know my father liked HEB whenever he visited, he mostly shops at the 23rd & Meridian Crest store.

You would probably agree that Wal-Mart is not really a "grocer" in any conventional sense. The stores you mention above are. Wal-Mart is a "grocer" in the same way as Best Buy is a music store. Having a real grocer: HEB, Tom Thumb, Randall's, anything would be an improvement.

I too shop at that 23rd Meridian Crest. They have decided their market is almost exclusively food-stamp patrons, so their product mix fits that definition.

[bluedogok]

A Neighborhood Market is more of a traditional grocery store than the super centers, not great but better than the super centers where I usually get to one end of the store and remember something that I wanted to pick up and don't since it is a half mile back over to where I have already been, I think they are just too big. I went to a WMNM on Saturday (next to the cleaners we use) but usually that is to get some products that King Soupers doesn't carry like Topo Chico water which we bought by the case at Sam's or Spec's in Austin.

As far as Crest, we stop there for specific items that we can't find up here (or when we were in Austin) before we head out of town and I haven't noticed it too bad but then we aren't doing general shopping there. Most of that clientele is within walking distance from the many older complexes that are close by. My parents still talk about moving out of the area but they have talked about it for 30 years.

[ljbab728]

If you go to Walmart's website and use the store finder, there really isn't much difference between the Tulsa and Oklahoma City area.

[PhiAlpha]

One reason i think Walmart is so prevalent here than many places... We boarder Arkansas, most states that boarder Arkansas have more walmarts per capita than those that are further away. It has been in the state longer than most others and therefore has had longer to expand here. Also, Sam Walton is from Oklahoma originally, not as much of a factor, but still, that's something.

[bchris02]

If you go to Walmart's website and use the store finder, there really isn't much difference between the Tulsa and Oklahoma City area.

Wal-Mart has only 46% of the grocery market share in Tulsa. While that is still much higher than most urban areas, its meager compared to over 60% in OKC. While Tulsa may have as many Wal-Marts per capita as OKC does, they likely aren't as high volume in the grocery department.

In Memphis for example, Wal-Mart only has 24% of the grocery market share.

[bchris02]

One reason i think Walmart is so prevalent here than many places... We boarder Arkansas, most states that boarder Arkansas have more walmarts per capita than those that are further away. It has been in the state longer than most others and therefore has had longer to expand here. Also, Sam Walton is from Oklahoma originally, not as much of a factor, but still, that's something.

Little Rock is IN Arkansas, and Wal-Mart takes a back seat there to Kroger and Save-A-Lot. NW Arkansas has Wal-Mart domination comparable to OKC in scale, but even they have a quality competitior - Harp's. If even they would expand into OKC it would be a HUGE improvement. They have recently expanded into Tulsa as well.

[ljbab728]

Wal-Mart has only 46% of the grocery market share in Tulsa. While that is still much higher than most urban areas, its meager compared to over 60% in OKC. While Tulsa may have as many Wal-Marts per capita as OKC does, they likely aren't as high volume in the grocery department.

In Memphis for example, Wal-Mart only has 24% of the grocery market share.

I don't know where you get your figures but, if that's true, it does nothing to prove that Walmart pushed out other grocers in OKC.

[PhiAlpha]

Per capita, Arkansas has more walmarts than any state in the us. OK rings in at number 5.

[redrunner]

So is this thread still about a big retailer eyeing OKC & Tulsa or is it a debate about Walmart and the quality of grocery stores in Oklahoma?

GET BACK ON TOPIC PEOPLE!!!

[ljbab728]

So is this thread still about a big retailer eyeing OKC & Tulsa or is it a debate about Walmart and the quality of grocery stores in Oklahoma?

GET BACK ON TOPIC PEOPLE!!!

Actually talking about Walmart and the idea that it might keep other grocers out of OKC is on topic.

[Just the facts]

It's just this simple. If you like the current selection of retail outlets in OKC - keep defending Walmart. If you want a better selection of retail options find a way to limit Walmart's market share.

Two things we know for sure, 1) Walmart uses state and federal social programs as part of their employee compensation package and 2) to lure other retailers the local governments have to offer incentives (and hell, half the time they offer those direct incentives to Walmart - see Choctaw).

You can't simultaneously complain that the Obama recovery is nothing but part-time low paying jobs AND defend Walmart. Well you can, but you look stupid doing it.

[SSEiYah]

So who are we getting? I still hope Frys Electronics or another Tech-Brand would put a Big-Box store here like they have in Dallas. Hard to say though, 90,000 sq feet would fit a lot of retailers. It sounds like a suburban big box retailer, meaning we are not going to get a halfway decent grocery store in midtown or downtown, but I could be wrong. Even if we had a Walmart in midtown, I would be all for it, the homeland on 18th/classen is terrible. If I had money I would have bought have bought a block or so west of the midtown area and turned it into a premier grocery store long ago. Land is still dirt cheap and would fill the void of folks from deep deuce, Midtown, and Uptown. The Belle-Isle walmart is pretty much the only option for a good part of the core in regards to food/groceries.

[bchris02]

So who are we getting? I still hope Frys Electronics or another Tech-Brand would put a Big-Box store here like they have in Dallas. Hard to say though, 90,000 sq feet would fit a lot of retailers. It sounds like a suburban big box retailer, meaning we are not going to get a halfway decent grocery store in midtown or downtown, but I could be wrong. Even if we had a Walmart in midtown, I would be all for it, the homeland on 18th/classen is terrible. If I had money I would have bought have bought a block or so west of the midtown area and turned it into a premier grocery store long ago. Land is still dirt cheap and would fill the void of folks from deep deuce, Midtown, and Uptown. The Belle-Isle walmart is pretty much the only option for a good part of the core in regards to food/groceries.

Be careful what you wish for. We may get a Wal-Mart Supercenter on the new Boulevard that looks just like the Belle Isle one. It may be convenient but it would ruin the core's chance of ever getting the kind of retail most want downtown.

I agree though about having another tech store. Best Buy is all that's left in OKC. Their competitors CompUSA, Circuit City, PC Club, and Ultimate Electronics all fell one by one.

[zookeeper]

Be careful what you wish for. We may get a Wal-Mart Supercenter on the new Boulevard that looks just like the Belle Isle one. It may be convenient but it would ruin the core's chance of ever getting the kind of retail most want downtown.

I agree though about having another tech store. Best Buy is all that's left in OKC. Their competitors CompUSA, Circuit City, PC Club, and Ultimate Electronics all fell one by one.

Unless you count Conn's who sometimes have good sales. Staples, who has aggressive retail pricing for technology, and even Office Depot and OfficeMax can sometimes beat Best Buy prices on any given weekend. I use this site to compare...all the sales circulars stripped down to the place, model and price...on all kinds of items.

[bchris02]

Unless you count Conn's who sometimes have good sales. Staples, who has aggressive retail pricing for technology, and even Office Depot and OfficeMax can sometimes beat Best Buy prices on any given weekend. I use this site to compare...all the sales circulars stripped down to the place, model and price...on all kinds of items.

Oh yeah I forgot about Conn's. I've only been in there once and was followed around by the sales people the entire time. It seemed like a pretty cool store though.

Yeah Staples/Office Depot are great stores for low-end technology.

[zookeeper]

Oh yeah I forgot about Conn's. I've only been in there once and was followed around by the sales people the entire time. It seemed like a pretty cool store though.

Yeah Staples/Office Depot are great stores for low-end technology.

I like Staples for their pricing on peripheral items like external hard drives, monitors, cables, printers...they can almost always beat Best Buy with use of their frequent coupons.