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  1. #26

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Just the facts View Post
    Wal-Marts are everywhere though. Metro Jacksonville has like 12 supercenters but we also have all the upscale stores.
    There was a study done showing Wal-Mart Super Centers, Wal-Marts, and WM Neighborhood Markets dominated the OKC grocery scene in an unprecedented way, fully 40% (!!) in 2010, with Sam's Clubs accounting for almost another 6%. That is nearly HALF the total grocery market.

    I can't imagine an MSA of over 1 million with anything close to this.


  2. Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Holy crap - 30 Wal-marts?

    Maybe I need to watch the documentary "Walmart: The high cost of low prices". I have been avoiding it but maybe it is worth a look.


  3. #28

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Watch the PBS special on Wal-Mart on-line here (it's excellent and even-handed):

    Is Wal-Mart Good For America? | FRONTLINE | PBS

  4. Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by warreng88 View Post
    Is the one on SW 104th and May? I always thought they had an expansive meat and deli selection as well as their produce being very good. I have been to Publix in Florida, Reasor's in the Tulsa area as well as a few Kroger's in Texas and I think this one tops them all. Maybe I am not going to as nice of stores in the other areas?
    I agree. I've never been in an HEB but I've been in Kroger and Publix and I think this Crest is equal to if not better than what I have seen at any Kroger o Publix I have been in.

    The new Crest at University North Park is the same concept as the store at 104th and May.

  5. #30

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by OK BBQ Eater Anonymous View Post
    I agree. I've never been in an HEB but I've been in Kroger and Publix and I think this Crest is equal to if not better than what I have seen at any Kroger o Publix I have been in.

    The new Crest at University North Park is the same concept as the store at 104th and May.
    Glad to know I am not just looking through my Crest-colored glasses...

  6. #31

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Still, those Crest locations are exceptions to their much more common locations and then only comparable to what's typical in most markets.

    Just illustrates the extremely low standard set in OKC.

  7. #32

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Still, those Crest locations are exceptions to their much more common locations and then only comparable to what's typical in most markets.

    Just illustrates the extremely low standard set in OKC.
    I see your point. We used to shop at the one at 23rd and Meridian and then found the one at SW 104th and May. So, instead of driving one mile to shop at the one on Meridian, we would drive the 11 miles to the other nicer, bigger store.

  8. #33

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Am I the only one that thinks that many of those crying for better grocery options will be some of the first to whine about the high prices?

    Maybe Im in a good location because I can get ready to eat/prepared foods from Whole Foods and then be able to have a great selection of produce at good prices at Buy for Less at 23rd and Penn. I know there are other spots in the metro where people want that but grocery options are fine by me at the moment.

  9. #34

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by onthestrip View Post
    Am I the only one that thinks that many of those crying for better grocery options will be some of the first to whine about the high prices?
    Prices at Publix, Kroger and Ralph's aren't any higher than Crest or Homeland.

    I doubt the prices are higher at the nice Crests than the bare bones locations.


    We aren't talking about carpeted aisles, just raising the standards to those already found just about everywhere else.

    With very few exceptions, I get totally depressed when I go into OKC grocery stores. And considering that is a place most people go into at least once a week, it's arguably the most important component of local retail.

  10. #35

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    BTW, I've never seen chains that have such a massive difference between locations.

    Look at the Homeland on Classen versus the one on N. May. Or the Crest comparisons just made.


    It actually really infuriates me that these local chains (and I include the 7-11 franchisee in this group) don't even maintain decent standards at most their locations.

    I can assure you that the Ralph's and Vons out here all look almost exactly the same no matter where you go, and they are in some pretty poor neighborhoods. For very up-scale areas they have completely separate concepts, usually very close to their base stores. But they don't have crappy, cheapo, run-down, dimly-lit, badly-stocked locations ANYWHERE.

    The locals are not only setting incredibly low standards, they are doing a massive disservice to people who don't live in one of their few, select areas. And the people they employ.

  11. #36

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    BTW, I've never seen chains that have such a massive difference between locations.

    Look at the Homeland on Classen versus the one on N. May. Or the Crest comparisons just made.


    It actually really infuriates me that these local chains (and I include the 7-11 franchisee in this group) don't even maintain decent standards at most their locations.

    I can assure you that the Ralph's and Vons out here all look almost exactly the same no matter where you go, and they are in some pretty poor neighborhoods. For very up-scale areas they have completely separate concepts, usually very close to their base stores. But they don't have crappy, cheapo, run-down, dimly-lit, badly-stocked locations ANYWHERE.

    The locals are not only setting incredibly low standards, they are doing a massive disservice to people who don't live in one of their few, select areas. Or the people they employ.
    I am curious how much of this has to do with the store taking over a now defunct store, throwing their name up there and adding a few things that differentiate them from the others? Crest is a great example. The newer one on May is extremely nice and the one on 23rd is scary but it was an older grocery store, so instead of tearing it down, they spent a little money to make it more Crest-like than what was there before.

  12. #37

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    I fully agree about grocery stores here. I don't understand how a city this size has it so bad in that area. Actually I do know how and why, its called Wal-Mart. Yes everywhere has them, but OKC is a special market for them. This is where they tested their market saturation strategy. The entire objective was to strategically place Supercenters and Neighborhood Markets in such locations and in such density as to completely take over the grocery market and eliminate the competition. After seeing what happened in OKC, other cities like Austin, another city Wal-Mart was planning on using this strategy in, fought back.

    It would be great to have any modern grocery chain here, even Reasor's would be a huge upgrade to most stores here. Uptown Grocery and Crest Market on SW 104th are great but they are also not convenient for much of the metro area. The problem is without alcohol sales to provide a profit cushion, I can't see any major chain making an investment in this market. Wal-Mart is just too dominant.

  13. #38

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by warreng88 View Post
    I am curious how much of this has to do with the store taking over a now defunct store, throwing their name up there and adding a few things that differentiate them from the others? Crest is a great example. The newer one on May is extremely nice and the one on 23rd is scary but it was an older grocery store, so instead of tearing it down, they spent a little money to make it more Crest-like than what was there before.
    That shouldn't have anything to do with it.

    It's not uncommon for other chains to take over other grocery locations. It's just a simple amount of money and effort to remodel.

    Crest gets a small pass only because they are smaller and it seems their newer locations are decent. But what's stopping them from upgrading the other stores?

    And Homeland needs to be run out of business completely, ala 7-11. Get out of the way and make room for a reputable chain that actually invests in it's stores.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    I fully agree about grocery stores here. I don't understand how a city this size has it so bad in that area. Actually I do know how and why, its called Wal-Mart.
    Homeland is just as much to blame.

    Long before Wal-Mart staged their bliztkrieg on the local market, they were the main players and very poor. They've done very little since.

    They are a spin-off (Oklahoma only) of Safeway, which is still thriving all over the country. And for the most part, Safeways are a million times nicer.


    When Homeland split from Safeway, it basically created a very insular situation in OKC, whereby there were virtually zero national chains -- until Wal-Mart came calling.

    So, our grocery market was left to the boys from Arkansas and local operators without any sort of larger ties in terms of assets, expertise, desire, pride or perspective. And OKC has suffered acutely because of that.

  15. #40

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    1. Frys Electronics
    2. Costco
    3. For HEB or Kroger to buy Homeland

  16. #41

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Costco, In-N-Out, REI (finally went to one. Debit card needs to be out on held upon walking in), publix (probably Wont happen--not the right region), Nike (do we have them at the outlet mall? Can't remember).

    No particular order

  17. #42

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    That shouldn't have anything to do with it.

    It's not uncommon for other chains to take over other grocery locations. It's just a simple amount of money and effort to remodel.

    Crest gets a small pass only because they are smaller and it seems their newer locations are decent. But what's stopping them from upgrading the other stores?

    And Homeland needs to be run out of business completely, ala 7-11. Get out of the way and make room for a reputable chain that actually invests in it's stores.
    I would rather Homeland get bought out than go under. If they closed down, many OKCitians would have no choice but to shop at Wal-Mart. Crest and Buy 4 Less locations are just too few. I think the chances of that happening without a change in liquor laws is a pie in the sky though.

  18. #43

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Homeland needs to be run out of business completely, ala 7-11. Get out of the way and make room for a reputable chain that actually invests in it's stores.
    Truer words have not been spoken.

  19. #44

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo Bill View Post
    Truer words have not been spoken.
    If they went under, would another company enter the market to take up the slack? I am not so sure anybody else would.

  20. #45

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    I think Kroger could eventually get involved in the OKC market. They stopped expanding to new markets using the Kroger name over a decade ago. It became too difficult to compete with Walmart and the entrenched grocery stores even in the fastest growing markets. They learned that it was much easier to buy an established local chain and implement their business model on the acquiree. That's exactly what they did with Ralph's in order to get into California.

    Crest would probably be a juicy target for them here, but I doubt that the Harroz family would sell out to them. Especially since they seem to be on the upswing. I think they'll get around to updating their old stores, but right now they're in expansion mode. They did spend a decent amount of money on refreshing the Edmond store though.

    Homeland could be an alternative target, but they have so many run-down stores, that the capital investment needed would run into the tens of millions of dollars. However, if the local population continues to grow, they could pull the trigger regardless.

  21. #46

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by bchris02 View Post
    If they went under, would another company enter the market to take up the slack? I am not so sure anybody else would.
    I can't believe that nobody would fill the void. Too many people that refuse to "experience" WalMart.

    Back on subject, my list would include more grocery options, REI, and Sur la Table.

  22. #47

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Many of Homeland's locations are on the smallish side as well, and the big boys like Kroger like a bigger footprint.

  23. #48

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    QT. It's hard to find a good gas station around here.

  24. #49

    Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    Many of Homeland's locations are on the smallish side as well, and the big boys like Kroger like a bigger footprint.
    Many of the Little Rock Krogers aren't much larger than the typical Homeland, but the quality of the stores are 1000 times better. There are a few huge Krogers but if they entered the market they could first buy Homeland out and build additional larger stores. OKC not only has mindnumbingly bad grocery stores, it has fewer than most cities as well.

    Still, I don't think any of this will happen until the liquor laws change. An upscale chain will want wine and beer sales to have leverage against Wal-Mart.

  25. Default Re: Top 5 stores (retail, grocery or otherwise) you wish we had in OKC

    Change the laws to allow Total Wine and everything else will take care of itself.

    Shop Wine, Liquor & Beer Online | Total Wine & More





    and Yes - wine tasting in the store


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