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  1. Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    ...Reminder that until 1999 we only had one hotel in all of downtown, the Sheraton.
    And I’m not even sure it was a Sheridan at that point. It lost its Sheridan flag at one point due to not being kept modern, was a Westin for a bit and spent a few years in the nineties as an off-brand “Medallion.” Definitely a low point for OKC.

  2. Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Also, just want to make a point about hotels. For the most part OKC locals are unaware of the visitor industry in OKC, don’t understand how much leisure travel and business/conference travel we now see here, or think “that’s not anything that benefits me...” or dislike rubbing elbows with visitors in their favorite haunts, districts, bars, stores.

    The fact of the matter is that those 4500 rooms have a huge economic impact on a city that relies almost completely on sales tax to provide City services to citizens. I’d go so far as to say those rooms might have more direct economic impact to the City of Oklahoma City than a company bringing 4500 jobs to our city.

    How’s that, you might ask? Because if a company brought 4500 new jobs, a significant number of those employees might spend precious little in OKC proper. They might live in a bedroom community where their property taxes go to another school system, their grocery sales taxes go to a different community, a significant portion of their purchases are done online, and due to weird boundaries they still might require City of OKC services (water, trash, police, fire, roads, etc.). All of this is generally fine for the REGION, but might even be a net loss for the City of OKC.

    On the other hand, VISITORS to our city require few if any services not already in place. They are captive within our boundaries. They spend more while traveling than they do while at home. They eat out every meal. They visit shops and attractions. Their dollars create OTHER jobs; hundreds of new hotel, restaurant, attraction and other jobs come online to service the visitors, with these people then themselves contributing to the economy.

    Also, as these visitors frequent establishments and districts you love they put cash into those registers, making them more likely to succeed long term, directly benefitting the lives of residents who love to have nice entertainment options.

    The point I’m making is that the visitor industry is some of the most pure and impactful economic development in which a city can engage. It brings large amounts of new money into the economy with little demand for services and support. Just a few things for readers to consider when determining the relative value of various developments, public investments, etc.

  3. #28
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    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    So, you are saying building a new convention center that brings in additional visitors might actually be a GOOD thing? Who knew?

  4. #29

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Impressive reports on Hotel Indigo & Central Exchange (see News, must reads).

    ot:

    Speaking on sales taxes; can't wait for the opening of the WinCo on N.W. 39th & Portland. There has been talk of a downtown grocery (another thread); what are the chances of a WinCo in the core of OKC (downtown, bricktown, automobile alley or midtown).

  5. #30

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    ^

    No chance for a Winco in the core.

    They only do suburban locations and I think the 4 they are planning in OKC will be it for them, at least for a very long time.

  6. #31

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    135 room Hotel Indigo? That should increase our 2020 projected hotel room count in the core to 4,652.

  7. #32

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Courtyard by Marriott Downtown has been sold (or is in the process of selling) to Atrium Hospitality. My wife is a manager there and it's a JQH hotel, and as some of you know, they declared bankruptcy a few years back. She also let me know that they will be doing a full renovation next year.

    Atrium purchased the Renaissance from JQH a year or two ago as well.

  8. #33

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Just did an update.

    Please provide any corrections/additions.

  9. #34

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    I haven't been paying attention as much lately - What is the ranking of likelihood that the 5 that are proposed actually get built:

    Canopy by Hilton
    Renaissance Bricktown
    Hotel Indigo
    LaQuinta Hotel
    Cambria Hotel

    Seems like all of these are a bit under question.

  10. #35

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    ^

    There has been no movement on any of those for over a year.

    Canopy, LaQuinta and Cambria are all the same developer and the plan was to do Canopy first.

  11. Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    would be nice if there's another downtown hotel chart for Tulsa, maybe other regional cities not Dallas or KC as well.

    Seattle just finishing a hotel boom, went from some 7000 hotel rooms in the early 2000s to more than 16,000 hotel rooms now. Personally, I think OKC needs to be in the 8000-10,000 downtown hotel room range to compete in Tier II. This is why I think the Omni subsidized hotel is falling short with only 600 rooms, the 750 that was consultant/recommended would have been much better.

    I think the Omni will sell out too much so we wont be able to get the big conventions. .... that's my beef with Omni.

    I consider, what's the biggest convention you'll get; probably 4,000-6,000 delegates. Well, they need rooms. Downtown only has 3000 rooms total now, with Omni and Fairfield coming that gives 3700 in ALL of downtown. So we couldn't go after the biggest conventions even though we should.

    Not to mention, you also need hotel rooms for tourists (probably about 1,000 on a given night), then for business (probably about 1,500 on a given work night), and then there's the extended stay business (probably about 500-1000 per night), then government (maybe 500), then transient travel (again maybe 500). Total those and you get the hotel supply we currently have. Add in convention and well - we need that much more not just 600 rooms.

    We need to consider the crush hotel load - when the city has NBA, big convention(s), baseball, maybe softball, big business, tourism, transient, and government all in the city on the same night to get an idea of hotel count needed. I think at least the 3000 we have plus 4000 for the large conventions we need to be going after. That's 7000 minimum downtown rooms, double what we will have next year.

    We do this then we can get the NBA All Star game, very big conventions like DNC or RNC, multiple concerts, more frequently and still the tourist, transient tourist, government, extended stay and business that we currently get.

    And by hotels I mean large flag full service hotels. We're doing fine with the limited select and boutique IMO.
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  12. #37

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by HOT ROD View Post
    would be nice if there's another downtown hotel chart for Tulsa, maybe other regional cities not Dallas or KC as well.

    Seattle just finishing a hotel boom, went from some 7000 hotel rooms in the early 2000s to more than 16,000 hotel rooms now. Personally, I think OKC needs to be in the 8000-10,000 downtown hotel room range to compete in Tier II. This is why I think the Omni subsidized hotel is falling short with only 600 rooms, the 750 that was consultant/recommended would have been much better.

    I think the Omni will sell out too much so we wont be able to get the big conventions. .... that's my beef with Omni.

    I consider, what's the biggest convention you'll get; probably 4,000-6,000 delegates. Well, they need rooms. Downtown only has 3000 rooms total now, with Omni and Fairfield coming that gives 3700 in ALL of downtown. So we couldn't go after the biggest conventions even though we should.

    Not to mention, you also need hotel rooms for tourists (probably about 1,000 on a given night), then for business (probably about 1,500 on a given work night), and then there's the extended stay business (probably about 500-1000 per night), then government (maybe 500), then transient travel (again maybe 500). Total those and you get the hotel supply we currently have. Add in convention and well - we need that much more not just 600 rooms.

    We need to consider the crush hotel load - when the city has NBA, big convention(s), baseball, maybe softball, big business, tourism, transient, and government all in the city on the same night to get an idea of hotel count needed. I think at least the 3000 we have plus 4000 for the large conventions we need to be going after. That's 7000 minimum downtown rooms, double what we will have next year.

    We do this then we can get the NBA All Star game, very big conventions like DNC or RNC, multiple concerts, more frequently and still the tourist, transient tourist, government, extended stay and business that we currently get.

    And by hotels I mean large flag full service hotels. We're doing fine with the limited select and boutique IMO.
    I agree OKC needs more hotel rooms downtown. But, in counter to that, OKC has over-built hotel rooms in Bricktown, to the point where a bunch of hotels proposed are not being built. Not a total excuse, but I think OKC will be in a build to suit mode (meaning once demand is needed, they will build). But overall, I agree with you. Just do not see a fix for it.

  13. #38

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Kansas City has about 4,600 rooms in the core and Loews is currently building an 800 room hotel that will be adjacent to the convention center. There are fears the market is being overbuilt.

    Denver has about 11,000 rooms in the core and some feel it is being overbuilt.

    OKC couldn't come close to supporting 8-10k rooms.

  14. #39

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    We have about 3,800 rooms built or under construction.

    Of the 700 or so in the 'proposed' category, it seems all are dead or nearly dead.

    At this point, I bet everyone is going to wait to see what happens when the new convention center and Omni opens. Believe it or not, that will be in just over a year.

  15. Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by DenverPoke View Post
    Kansas City has about 4,600 rooms in the core and Loews is currently building an 800 room hotel that will be adjacent to the convention center. There are fears the market is being overbuilt.

    Denver has about 11,000 rooms in the core and some feel it is being overbuilt.

    OKC couldn't come close to supporting 8-10k rooms.
    why not? if OKC is competing against those cities for conventions. Shouldn't we have a product that is similar/near.

    Also consider that OKC is the "new kid on the block". So that alone will draw a lot of conventions to OKC to try us out (likely at a discount) - IF we have the rooms to support the growth.
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  16. Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
    We have about 3,800 rooms built or under construction.

    Of the 700 or so in the 'proposed' category, it seems all are dead or nearly dead.

    At this point, I bet everyone is going to wait to see what happens when the new convention center and Omni opens. Believe it or not, that will be in just over a year.
    I think you're right Pete.

    I suspect we will fully need those 3,800 rooms in the greater downtown area immediately. Now the more I think about it - this could be a boon for shuttle service and actually might liven up downtown considerably in the short term, having people milling about and shuttle vans going to/from the cc out to hotels just north in the existing CBD and north east in Bricktown/OHC. ...

    I also think that once they see the success of the CC that they will be high-tailing it to build more. I agree with Jonny d that Bricktown is probably at its limit (I dont think its overbuilt though since it could still use a full service hotel), so I expect most all new hotels to be elsewhere in downtown.

    I suspect OKC will get those 20+ floor Hyatt Regency, Marriott/JW Marriott, and Westin full-service convention hotel names that we've been lacking in the next 5-10 years and I suspect we will land them in the Core-2-Shore area. Just too bad that "again" investors are holding OKC to a different standard than they do other major cities (where they actively speculate and build).
    Oklahoma City, the RENAISSANCE CITY!

  17. #42

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by HOT ROD View Post
    I think you're right Pete.

    I suspect we will fully need those 3,800 rooms in the greater downtown area immediately. Now the more I think about it - this could be a boon for shuttle service and actually might liven up downtown considerably in the short term, having people milling about and shuttle vans going to/from the cc out to hotels just north in the existing CBD and north east in Bricktown/OHC. ...

    I also think that once they see the success of the CC that they will be high-tailing it to build more. I agree with Jonny d that Bricktown is probably at its limit (I dont think its overbuilt though since it could still use a full service hotel), so I expect most all new hotels to be elsewhere in downtown.

    I suspect OKC will get those 20+ floor Hyatt Regency, Marriott/JW Marriott, and Westin full-service convention hotel names that we've been lacking in the next 5-10 years and I suspect we will land them in the Core-2-Shore area. Just too bad that "again" investors are holding OKC to a different standard than they do other major cities (where they actively speculate and build).
    Has to be something OKC can do about that. It may be because there are not many large investors in OKC to pull those off.

  18. #43

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Remember, we recently had this new 11-story, full-service Marriott Renaissance teed up but that seems to have died.

    May come back but my understanding is that they have had the construction priced out several times but it keeps coming it for more than they are willing to pay.

  19. #44
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    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by HOT ROD View Post
    why not? if OKC is competing against those cities for conventions. Shouldn't we have a product that is similar/near.

    Also consider that OKC is the "new kid on the block". So that alone will draw a lot of conventions to OKC to try us out (likely at a discount) - IF we have the rooms to support the growth.
    It’s not just conventions that drive hotels. Having big corporate presence downtown fills rooms on a more regular basis. And, the more people living in or near downtown drives a certain amount of guest business. KC and Denver are simply bigger than OKC and has higher demand.

  20. #45

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by HOT ROD View Post
    why not? if OKC is competing against those cities for conventions. Shouldn't we have a product that is similar/near.

    Also consider that OKC is the "new kid on the block". So that alone will draw a lot of conventions to OKC to try us out (likely at a discount) - IF we have the rooms to support the growth.
    Because hotel operators aren’t in the business of trying to lose money. If the current occupancy rates supported the demand for more rooms I can assure you that they would be built.

    This isn’t a Field of Dreams situation, if you build rooms they will come. If the CC is a big success more rooms will follow.

  21. #46

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    FYI- the occupancy rate in the CBD is roughly 65%, so on any given night there are about 1,000 of the 3,000 current rooms vacant.

    For OKC to support 8,000 rooms at that the same occupancy rate you would need to fill an additional 3,200 rooms EVERY night. Doesn’t sound like a huge number, but consider the new Fairfield Inn next to the CC is 133 rooms. You would need to fill 24 of those at 100% occupancy every night.

  22. #47

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by HOT ROD View Post
    would be nice if there's another downtown hotel chart for Tulsa, maybe other regional cities not Dallas or KC as well.

    Seattle just finishing a hotel boom, went from some 7000 hotel rooms in the early 2000s to more than 16,000 hotel rooms now. Personally, I think OKC needs to be in the 8000-10,000 downtown hotel room range to compete in Tier II. This is why I think the Omni subsidized hotel is falling short with only 600 rooms, the 750 that was consultant/recommended would have been much better.

    I think the Omni will sell out too much so we wont be able to get the big conventions. .... that's my beef with Omni.

    I consider, what's the biggest convention you'll get; probably 4,000-6,000 delegates. Well, they need rooms. Downtown only has 3000 rooms total now, with Omni and Fairfield coming that gives 3700 in ALL of downtown. So we couldn't go after the biggest conventions even though we should.

    Not to mention, you also need hotel rooms for tourists (probably about 1,000 on a given night), then for business (probably about 1,500 on a given work night), and then there's the extended stay business (probably about 500-1000 per night), then government (maybe 500), then transient travel (again maybe 500). Total those and you get the hotel supply we currently have. Add in convention and well - we need that much more not just 600 rooms.

    We need to consider the crush hotel load - when the city has NBA, big convention(s), baseball, maybe softball, big business, tourism, transient, and government all in the city on the same night to get an idea of hotel count needed. I think at least the 3000 we have plus 4000 for the large conventions we need to be going after. That's 7000 minimum downtown rooms, double what we will have next year.

    We do this then we can get the NBA All Star game, very big conventions like DNC or RNC, multiple concerts, more frequently and still the tourist, transient tourist, government, extended stay and business that we currently get.

    And by hotels I mean large flag full service hotels. We're doing fine with the limited select and boutique IMO.
    Lol did you just make these numbers up? Where are you getting these

  23. #48

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Quote Originally Posted by Rover View Post
    It’s not just conventions that drive hotels. Having big corporate presence downtown fills rooms on a more regular basis. And, the more people living in or near downtown drives a certain amount of guest business. KC and Denver are simply bigger than OKC and has higher demand.

    And Devon is at risk of being bought/merged and potentially moving. (They could also be the operator in that situation and grow a little bit)

    So even then it’s not exactly a stable market.

    Plus first national will come online with more rooms in 21 or 22?

  24. #49

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    Construction of 146 hotel rooms & 190 apartments will be available on the old Fist National Bank site with a project price tag at $287 million; a million less than the price of the MAPS3 convention center being built from the ground up.

    Will FN be the only 5 diamond star hotel in Oklahoma City?

  25. #50

    Default Re: Downtown Hotel Summary

    I remember years ago when l played softball tournaments, l noticed a good sized event could mostly fill a couple of the common type of hotel seen around town. Just an example of something that used to go on every weekend that people don't usually think about.

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